Intergalactic Summit

What statements are you referring to?

That you maybe should learn the difference between 'Ordinance', ie: a law, and 'Ordnance', ie: artillery and the logistics of ammunition. I'd meant to mention it earlier, as someone in fact did, but with the thread's resurrection it occurred to me again.

Did you forget so soon Aria's lessons? I'm a pedant. I will pick at these little things. It's not an insult, it's just a light poking.

As for the rest... again, you should have listened to Aria. You're not going to get under my skin by regurgitating empty nonsense. But clearly, even the slightest implication that you're not perfect gets under yours. You didn't know a word. Now you know the word.

As for your universal law... I'll believe that when it starts happening. So far, it more seems that the universal law of 'who wins' is far more consistently 'whoever's got the best set-up for that battle'. Morality really has very little to do with it.

Um. I've missed, oh, twenty-seven pages of drivel, but Mr. Ronin? Those pilots you derided as being unable to fight their way out of lowsec these days? They occupy Delve.

Your information might be a bit out of date.

Anyway, do carry on.

Honestly I sort of like Arrendis because she is sooo much bluster, but she goes out of her way to snipe at me, so I snipe back. She may not fully be an enemy but she is no ally to the cause of abolition.

She seems to have her head stuck so far up the nether regions of the popular crowd she lost any sense of morality, which is a shame because the "good fight" could use more help from people with name recognition. However jarring them out of their follower role into leadership roles is a difficult task, I will attempt to get some of them like her to realize she could make a difference if she did what was the right thing instead of just the popular thing.

The "in" crowd changes, but right and wrong are constant.

Huh. I couldn't have said it any better myself, well done. Sadly she isn't the only one who suffers from this either.

Hi. Remember that one time the Amarr Empire tried to use violence to put down the Minmatar Rebellion, or all the other relatively minor uprisings before that? How did that turn out for them?

Now flip it around and tell me how using violence to get what we want will turn out for us.

As I said earlier, because some stuff is just too easy to predict .......
Power only yields to a greater power.

Before all the trolls chime in, and you know who they are, please don't assume I am plotting an overthrow of an empire, that's straw man hokum.

As with the initial post people will recite their canned speeches about what they think is planned and why it can never possibly logistically work.

Fortunately the universe is not as limited as some people's imagination or tactical creativity. ....

Because you can not imagine how something will move forward does not mean it will not move forward. Your limitations are not universal, other people can have greater abilities and probably most people have lesser abilities. Nonetheless you are ready to dismiss a plan because you just somehow think inhumane slavers who sell children and grandmothers will one day change their ways if we are nice and they learn to respect our words because we are honest and honorable.

If you really even thought that was true I wouldn't waste anymore time on you. You are just playing the role again, you argue the standard stuff about how to nicely affect change when history has no model of it being effective.

Let's do one of your thought exercises.



Not that I am even contemplating talking to those monsters but to assume the situation remains static in a ever changing universe is at best unwise. Please think, imagine how things might change and not just how they will not. No one dared to think jamyl would get insta curb stomped until it happened. A few weapons like that in the hands of freedom fighters would crush the slavery cultists because our technology can't defeat it yet.

Proud and stubborn can not offset alpha strike instant death. The future is not set in stone we have to make it happen.

Anyone here who thinks there's even the slightest chance capsuleer words can convince the Empire to release our people needs to have a serious reality check. We may be so far above your average baseliner that they're not even visible from our lofty perch, but those who lead the nations are equally as far above us and hold their own counsel. You can yap at or with the Imperial loyalists every day for a century and it'll make no difference, unless you also put your money and your guns to work as well.

When you also consider that we are on an actual timetable here, since the Empire is as we speak grinding out the last few remaining Matari spirits among the people they hold, words are not enough. Words will not prevent that final genocide, as fewer and fewer people with the hearts and minds of Matari are born in the Empire with every generation.

The Empire will never willingly release these people before they're as broken and indoctrinated as the ones Jammies used as a weapon, and you all know this. The only remaining options before us then, is surrender or force. Abandon our people, or release them by force.

Of course, this does not mean cornering them with no escape options. The aid programs for transitioning to non-slave economies for Holders are in effect and for small enough holdings have been successfully employed, providing analysis and consultation for industry automation, transition to a free workforce with wages, along with how to leverage that for an even stronger economy long-term. This of course doesn't really work as well for the large holdings, as they suffer under a heavier inertia, usually more scrutiny from even bigger players and are a bit more resistant to pressure from outside.

None of these carrots work without the stick.

Jabber on, befriend your Imperial loyalists, try to reason them out of situations they didn't reason themselves into in the first place, whatever. Just don't forget that none of them have the slightest reason to do anything but ignore you, until someone brings the "or else" stick into play.

and


I don't know if you've noticed, but while Drifter battleships are formidable, they're not unstoppable. During the Defense of the Throne Worlds campaign, hundreds upon hundreds of them were destroyed. ARC and SERAPH have accounted for hundreds more, each. 'A few weapons like that' will find themselves swarmed, scrammed, webbed down, and destroyed. That superweapon of theirs doesn't exactly fire on a 30s cycle time.

So let's say you get the blueprints for one. You're going to cause a glorious amount of havoc, but you're going to take losses. Your pilots won't be indestructible, and some of them will get frustrated when the promise of being unbeatable doesn't materialize. Even if you're successful with your strikes, burnout and eager new volunteers means you're going to have churn. Eventually, someone infiltrates your network and steals a copy of those plans. There has, in all of human existence, never been a perfectly secure organization with a member-count higher than 1.

Then you'll be facing thousands of those ships. Worse, with the R&D facilities the Empire has, you'll probably be facing a lot of variations on them, too. Carrier-sized designs packing multiple doomsdays. Cruisers and battlecruisers with low-power versions that are still enough to vaporize anything less durable than a heavily-tanked Command Ship.

An arms race begets an arms race. We've seen that time and again. We see it right now in the way capital fleets across null are mushrooming and upgrading to supercapitals. The Empire is consistently pushing the limits of R&D, and I don't see that slowing down at all under a mercantile Empress.



Did you miss the bit where I quite openly and pointedly asked you how you think you'll move it forward? Or are you unable to actually explain what you claim I'm not seeing? Because I pretty much said 'I'm not seeing it', and invited you to educate me. But you seem to want to go back to evasion and bluster.

And for the record, to claim that non-violent ways to effect change have 'no model of it being effective' is to ignore our own history and the centuries of peace we enjoyed before the Day of Darkness. Or do you think that happened because someone beat everyone else on Matar into submission? There are other examples, too, you just have to look for them.

And Miz: Yes, the carrot needs the stick. But let's face it, we're not an effective stick. We're simply not numerous enough, and most of the capsuleers looking to spill blood as a political statement are gleefully funneling themselves into the Pendulum Games. In strategic terms, diplomatic voices are a force multiplier. We can be that a lot more effectively than we can be the stick.