EVE General Discussion

human invention is the thing that makes eve interesting. I lerned something today from this post too.

delivery bin sounds good.


Rise said something about players staying in the game longer if they were shot within their first three months. Pretty sure you can't say the same about players who were scammed within their first 40 days.

I want people to look at this part very closely because this poster is being very liberal with the truth.

What ended can flipping was not the changes to barges, but it was a factor, but the change to the crimewatch system where the person nabbing the can went suspect to all, not just creating a limited engagement with the person who had their can flipped, but what often happened is that the noob player would go he stole my can I will steal it back, which then created a limited egagement with the person who stole his can resulting in him getting blown up in his mining or transport ship. Once the can flipper went suspect to all they stopped doing it.

CCP did a revamp of destroyers, they really buffed the DPS, so a Catalyst went from 220 DPS to 580 DPS give or take a few based on fitting and skill, I often wondered why that adjustment to destroyers happened, because they ended up with a DPS higher than most cruisers at the time and many BS were about 800 DPS. The insurance was removed that is true, but they introduced BC's that could do the alpha damage of the BS before they removed insurance.

Bumping freighters in hisec is a strange one because people suddenly started doing it, from what I understand it was not allowed being a sort of exploit, but then people started to do it to bump mining ships away from asteroids, the GM's allowed that then they started bumping freighters to stop them from getting into warp and CCP allowed that then we got into other events that were not accepted previously but became allowed such as hypdunking which is now blocked by mechanic changes. Bumping was never a response to losing insurance.

EDIT: I don't think ganking is an issue for most Alpha players you get ganked while mining you are in a Venture and you have loads of them, The exception is in terms of those doing hauling, this will be a major issue for you people just as this hauler scam was a major issue for the OP.

TBH, there are a lot of stuff where EVE is unique. Enough even that even if they somehow decided to remove scamming, wardecs and ganking, the game would still be pretty much alone in it's space MMO where the economy runs based on player interaction with next to nothing not being crafted by players, a rather large collection of different ships to fly and freedom of doing nearly whatever you want in more than half the game universe. I'm not saying such a change should be done but even if it was, EVE would still be rather unique so that mean players can potentially like enough things in it to go over a dislike of all 3 mentioned features.

Shooting down the courier can be countered. I could scout/bait on my battlenereus. I could bring an escort. (jay) Perhaps I just fly a longer route or just happened to find a wh that connects the relevant systems? A lot of funny things can happen with a scam that relies on shooting a ship down.

That "you can't enter station" scam is rather lame, blunt, boring. I didn't fall for it and I think I won't in the future. I just liked the "lure and shoot" version better. A question of style if you want to put it that way. And I have a lot of funny ideas what one could do with the delivery bin. Deliver 1000 homeless to the staging of Alliance X? Challenge excepted. Quiting a corp in rage and taking everything not nailed down with you is good, dumping everything at the station of a bitter rival even better.

you seem to know a lot about Rift

I would say that's debatable. Even with a suspect timer, it would still be doable, but good luck finding any jetcans to flip at all these days. People still suspect-bait, so they obviously are not afraid of being blinky yellow. The reason for that is that most highsec-dwellers are way too scared to attack a suspect, so you can sit in a belt, blinking yellow and nobody will do anything, although they could probably roast you with all the drones they have in the belt. Ultimately, it doesn't matter why it's not possible anymore anyway - it's not possible anymore, and the only reliable way to kill a mining barge now is to gank it, which is what people are doing.


I think the main contributor was the weapon rebalance, but I may be mistaken there. However, Catalysts are mainly being used because they are cheap. That is however only true when they are T1 fit. Assuming all fives (which on a gank alt is not the standard) a Catalyst with T1 guns, Fed Navy Antimatter and T1 Magstabs, no rigs does 330DPS, 385 with heat, for just 1.7-ish M. With T2 guns, Void, T2 Magstabs and two rigs does 600DPS, 680 with heat for 10M - not even twice the DPS for 6 times the price. The 600DPS Catalyst sure is a thing, but it's not the standard. It's either el-cheapo T1 fit if you have the manpower, or battlecruisers if you don't for the most part.


Bumping was indeed a weird one back then. Nobody was really sure how CCP would see it, and they probably didn't know themselves. It was only clarified to be an exploit after the whole James 315 Minerbumping thing, and even then only if there was no end game to it. So - if you bump a ship to keep it from warping in order to destroy it further down the line, that's fair game. If you bump a ship just to bump a ship and annoy the **** out of the pilot it's not. That being said - ganking Freighters with a horde of 70 catalysts would be near impossible without bumping, unless he was autopiloting. And if gankers could still use Battleships for cheap, they'd most certainly prefer that as it's way easier if you don't have to bump and manage ranges, but can just shoot once and be done with it. So, I do believe that the insurance change is a major contributor to the freighterbumping - if CONCORDOKKEN-insurance was still a thing, bumping the freighter would not be required.

That's what you get for engaging with it at length

One is good strategy and gamesmanship, and the other is just bad mechanics.
One has risk, chance of failure or the unforeseen, and the other is just bad mechanics.
One is worthy of a killmail, a marker in history, an interactive visual experience for all parties...
And the other is just bad.

edit


Pretty much this.

Where is the risk?

Ganking unsuspecting nooblets is a marker in history now, who knew?

I get what you are saying, though. And yes, it's not risky and doesn't require much in terms of skill and organization, and the victim doesn't have a lot of options once trapped. However, the same can be said about ISK doubling scams, trade contract scams, market scams, ... - that's just how most scams are.

They have another thing in common: They rely heavily on very bad choices. In case of the citadel courier scam, the victim gets a window, that basically says "If you click this button you may loose a bajillion isk". The victim clicks the button and looses a bajillion ISK - big surprise. It's silly, but I don't think a game mechanic needs to protect players from their own bad choices. If you make a bad move in a game, you may loose. If you make a good move, you may win. Not all of these moves have to be fascinating, intricate schemes. Sometimes it's just enough if your move is not stupid, and the other guys is.

And on the "interactive" part: Realistically it goes like this: The victim takes the contract jumps a gate and dies. That's it. There's not much in terms of interaction either. Yeah, he may have a now very pretty explosion, but that's about it.