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Is the Alpha clone a problem?

First post
Author
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2017-01-08 21:12:23 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
You are basing all of your posts so far on logical fallacies.


Explain where and how, exactly.


I already.

LInk

Link



Neither constitute non-sequitor.

They are relevant and directed at statements made by Scipio himself.


And BOOM!

Now you know why Scipio does not want to discuss this with you. Those are both non-sequiturs. Your conclusions do not follow from what Scipio has written.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Salvos Rhoska
#122 - 2017-01-08 21:13:45 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


Scipio, explain why and how you believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child.
Salvos Rhoska
#123 - 2017-01-08 21:15:16 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your conclusions do not follow from what Scipio has written.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


I said "The direct conclusion, is that Alphas are children, and getting griefed by them is like being griefed by a child, by your own explanation." is the direct, literal, factual and stated premise of the statement Scipio made.

This is not non-sequitor.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2017-01-08 21:16:43 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


Scipio, explain why and how you believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child.


Look it is Literal Salvos.

Do you know what a simile is?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2017-01-08 21:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your conclusions do not follow from what Scipio has written.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


I said "The direct conclusion, is that Alphas are children, and getting griefed by them is like being griefed by a child, by your own explanation." is the direct, literal, factual and stated premise of the statement Scipio made.

This is not non-sequitor.


You are like Drax the Destroyer, you are so literal that nothing goes right over your head because your reflexes are too fast.

Holy mother of God. Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svtLfoGH19c

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Salvos Rhoska
#126 - 2017-01-08 21:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:
Look it is Literal Salvos.


The irony when you tried, and failed, to nail me on non-sequitor, which is based in literal statements, yet you now try to denigrate me for disproving your false claim, as being "literal".

Now you attempt "similes" as a proxy to divert from the remaining and outstanding question.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


Scipio, explain why and how you believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child.

This is a rational question to ask of your "belief".
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#127 - 2017-01-08 21:27:43 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


Explain this.


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child


Scipio, explain why and how you believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child.



Salvos Rhoska wrote:


Scipio, explain why and how you believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child.

This is a rational question to ask of your "belief".



I think you broke Salvosbot

@lunettelulu7

Salvos Rhoska
#128 - 2017-01-08 21:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:
You are like Drax the Destroyer, you are so literal that nothing goes right over your head because your reflexes are too fast.

Holy mother of God. Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svtLfoGH19c


I take this as a sincere compliment.
If you cant say what you mean, and mean what you say, it is of no concern to me.

The question to Scipio, so as to explain his "belief", is still outstanding.
Up to him whether he answers or not.
But in absence of an explanation, its everyone's free game to interpret his "belief" as they see fit.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#129 - 2017-01-08 22:09:46 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
For example Jonah tried to hire mercs to kill me because I had hurt his feelings, but the Mercs told him no because it was not worth it, and do you know what that gave me a huge buzz, because I had won Eve for me.
I put some feelers out with reference to placing a contract on you, not because you had hurt my feelings but because you're a bit of an arse, the general consensus of opinion was that YOU'RE not worth wasting my money on.

No price was mentioned, nor was it a serious dialogue; with many jokes being made at your expense.


You had a feeling that I was an arse, so I hurt your feelings by being an arse with you so you put feelers out, yes they made jokes at my expense on which I am so not bothered, but that is all they can do, just like you, which as I said makes me very happy...


I would like to thank others for picking up on this immature thing thrown around at people who get uptight over a competitive game, which can be a perfectly normal reaction to a loss in any competitive game. If they don't get uptight are they unfeeling, uncaring and lack emotion?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2017-01-08 22:25:44 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Is it griefing if I under cut your prices by more than 10%?

Well, 0.1 isk wars could be harassment. It's regionwide, which is way more than just a constellation or a few systems.

Lol


Classic Teckos diversion post, you should ignore him like I have. I only get to see his rubbish if people quote it, which thankfully is not often. Somehow in Tecko's mind playing games in the market is the same as Erotica's teamspeak bonus room, which is why when people talk about gamking balance they jump in and say you want no PvP, odd people I must say...


Classic Dracvlad nonsense by the way. Clearly my post was in jest. Of course undercutting prices is not griefing. How one makes the leap to Erotica1 is something only possible in Dracvlad's mind.

I will say that it is mildly refreshing to see a post where Dracvald is not posting almost entirely about himself though.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#131 - 2017-01-08 22:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Dracvlad wrote:
If they don't get uptight are they unfeeling, uncaring and lack emotion?

That's a good question; and no it's not my view that one means the other.

Just like many things can be represented by a bell curve, in society how people as a whole react to situations can be represented by a bell curve and within that curve, there is a range of emotion that is generally accepted as 'normal'.

For example, if a stranger past me on a walk and said hello, I'd say hello back. That would be normal. But if that same stranger came and gave me a hug, I'd probably be a bit creeped out. Not trying to define absolutes, just trends, norms, etc.

So for me personally, in reacting to things that happen in game, there is also going to be a range of emotions and reactions that is perfectly normal.

The feeling of being griefed is to me, outside that normal range of feelings over a video game. It's at the extreme in my view.

From that, people that are emotionally in check (which I hope is more easily understood than my earlier wording) are not going to be griefed, because they simply can deal with it and move on.

I have not said anything about immaturity. That's all been said by others. I only feel that people who are emotionally secure, no matter whether they are alpha or omega clones, can't ever be griefed in this game and therefore the introduction of alphas hasn't made it any easier or difficult.

A person reacting to an action doesn't care if it's an alpha or an omega that shot them (or whatever they did). That's not the cause of them feeling griefed. It's their own choice to feel that way and it is at the extreme end of reactions in my view.

Obviously someone else might have a different opinion and that's perfectly valid. We are all entitled to our own views.
Salvos Rhoska
#132 - 2017-01-08 22:34:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Clearly my post was in jest.


Oh, you where only joking?

HEHEHEHE
HAHAHAHA

Next?
Salvos Rhoska
#133 - 2017-01-08 22:57:39 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
If they don't get uptight are they unfeeling, uncaring and lack emotion?

That's a good question; and no it's not my view that one means the other.

Just like many things can be represented by a bell curve, in society how people as a whole react to situations can be represented by a bell curve and within that curve, there is a range of emotion that is generally accepted as 'normal'.

For example, if a stranger past me on a walk and said hello, I'd say hello back. That would be normal. But if that same stranger came and gave me a hug, I'd probably be a bit creeped out. Not trying to define absolutes, just trends, norms, etc.

So for me personally, in reacting to things that happen in game, there is also going to be a range of emotions and reactions that is perfectly normal..


What if a stranger passing you on the street suddenly beats you till you are unconscious and takes your property?

I dont think you have thought your paradigm through.

Your premise was that a well adjusted adult can differentiate their loss ingame, and control their emotional reaction, as a result of maturity, yet you also stated that "I believe that being griefed by an alpha is like an adult being grieved by a child".

This refers to the difference between adult and child.

We still need an explanation of this "belief".
Eve Griefer
Carebear Reeducation Institute
#134 - 2017-01-08 23:30:58 UTC
Iron Breaker wrote:
So I was thinking of picking up EVE again after a few months off. The corp got chased out of null sec after someone dropped a catical l in our space and we had no chance against them guys. Dam shame, I was enjoying it out there.

So before I come back, has the Alpha clone thing just made it easier for griefers to pester casual players?

If it is free to create a toon and go mess with people, and that is your thing, it seems like a no brainier.

It almost seems like every time they do an expansion it just makes it easier for the griefers to mess with people.

Anyway, I just thought I would ask.

Thanks,

Iron


If I wanted to engage the unwilling in non-consensual combat, I'd still want to be an omega. I can't see any benefit to being an alpha for that purpose. No Catalyst, no T2 guns, poorer fitting skills...
On the other hand, I have no doubt there are players quite content to team up with other alphas to engage the unwilling.

So not easier, just cheaper.

(And for the record, it's piracy, not griefing I'm training for)
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#135 - 2017-01-08 23:47:22 UTC
Eve Griefer wrote:
Iron Breaker wrote:
So I was thinking of picking up EVE again after a few months off. The corp got chased out of null sec after someone dropped a catical l in our space and we had no chance against them guys. Dam shame, I was enjoying it out there.

So before I come back, has the Alpha clone thing just made it easier for griefers to pester casual players?

If it is free to create a toon and go mess with people, and that is your thing, it seems like a no brainier.

It almost seems like every time they do an expansion it just makes it easier for the griefers to mess with people.

Anyway, I just thought I would ask.

Thanks,

Iron


If I wanted to engage the unwilling in non-consensual combat, I'd still want to be an omega. I can't see any benefit to being an alpha for that purpose. No Catalyst, no T2 guns, poorer fitting skills...
On the other hand, I have no doubt there are players quite content to team up with other alphas to engage the unwilling.

So not easier, just cheaper.

(And for the record, it's piracy, not griefing I'm training for)

There is nothing preventing a Gallente Alpha character from flying a T1 fit Catalyst for ganking, they are just not going to be as efficient as an Omega pilot...but can still be done.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2017-01-08 23:54:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Clearly my post was in jest.


Oh, you where only joking?

HEHEHEHE
HAHAHAHA

Next?


You thought I was serious with that? Really?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Salvos Rhoska
#137 - 2017-01-09 00:15:46 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


You thought I was serious with that? Really?


Did you think it was funny, or repudiated the point? Really?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2017-01-09 00:19:21 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


You thought I was serious with that? Really?


Did you think it was funny, or repudiated the point? Really?


Shall I now throw a fit that you aren't answering my yes/no question with a yes or no? P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Salvos Rhoska
#139 - 2017-01-09 00:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


You thought I was serious with that? Really?


Did you think it was funny, or repudiated the point? Really?


Shall I now throw a fit that you aren't answering my yes/no question with a yes or no? P


No, I did not think it was funny, or a joke. You were, however, serious in your attempt to sideline the issue at hand.
I have now answered your question.

It is now incumbent on you to answer mine as well.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:


Did you think it was funny, or repudiated the point? Really?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#140 - 2017-01-09 01:46:52 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


It is now incumbent on you to answer mine as well.


To quote you,

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Im under no obligation to provide you with anything.


P


"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online