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realistic isk from different professions
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Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-01-07 05:38:16 UTC
Hi all, enjoying winter war =)

I was doing some diggin around to improve isk generation one way or the other :P

Since i was away for significant amount of time I would like to get a refresher on isk per hour or isk per day from PVE,research and indy, trading, and ratting in null.

Ratting in null- i do not remember what places are good but if you in null i would expect at arround 100 m/hour, but noticed that was not the case anymore, heard some poeple were doing up to 1 bill an hour, so seems to be a huge difference what i am missing here. What is the avrg null ratting income these days.

Lev 4 mission changes doyou get about 20-40 mill per hour doing those?.( salvagin mission with lots of BS wrecks only, aka extravaganzas)
Mining seems got slightly better but still if its in high sec with boosts we talk max 12-14 mill per hour, but closer to 11m/h in null?

manufacturing- ok this one is proly most funny, lots of produce is a net loss if you buy mats from sell orders, what to do here if alt has 9-10 manufacturing slots? i tried to stick to buy mats myself route but i simply coul not camp the trade isk war so seems maybe some form of manufacturing is off limits unless i am on indy toon for a long time during a day.

Reasearch - well seems like it goes well with the production slots that you have especially with t2 invention, but there is big but you need to check those every few hours to restart invention and haul t2BPCs to manufacturing station, and after all that you get still 10-15% net profit after all the fees, for example you make across the day 150-200 drones and sell all of them you make arround 10-15 mill in profits, which seems according to some poeple pretty laughable income per 9 research and 9 production slots used.

Heard some absurd daily profits of some traders that were in billions a day, with current bots avialable running them 8 hours aday some poeple reported 500-700 mill profit a day( which is pretty nuts if it happens when you sleep), but also live traders making billions a day. How are realistic all these numbers? what capital size are we talking?and is it possible in current over saturated trader market, unless you bot.

With that being said what is the appropriate income level per research and manufacturing slot these days, seens some info that it should be around 1 mill per hour per slot, but that seems way far off at the moment.

Seen some info that to utilize research and manufacturing slots you need to switch to capital parts production only, but i was having hard time getting the consumption data on such items as it was in the range of arround 50 units a day per capital spare parts, and that info is from Jita, so i am not quite sure where is all the business happening if i cant even see flow of it in the biggest trade hub, the default guess is that capital production and procurement is probably done from within coalitions, hence the market data will simply not represent it.

Looking for some recommendations, I would prefer to run 1 account with 3 chars to make things work well 1 combat and probably 2 research/indy, but it seems indy in its current state is not that profitable unless you spend whole day in it and even then still not coming close to combat alternatives.

I have come across some very conflicting information and would like touch base with reality of EVE

thank you =)
Star Killer14
Core World Imperium
#2 - 2017-01-07 06:01:34 UTC
Hi Strrog

Manufacuring

I am not sure why people are always complaining about low or non existent margins in manufacturing. There are lots of items that are profitable but to find them may take several hours the first time in building your spreadsheets if you don't use a program someone made. I like to use my own spreadsheets so I know EXACTLY what it is doing and I can adjust it. NOTE: I have not yet found a program that accounts for the MASSIVE savings done when building tech 2 components at a POS or Citadel, these savings are only seen in batch sizes of 1000+ components and most programs assume batch sizes of 1.

As to procuring the needed materials I have not found it too hard to do. I place buy orders at various trade hubs for the materials I need and update them a couple times a day and they usually get filled before i must ship them, not always but usually. Then most of the time my margins allow me to make profits even buying from sell orders but the buys give me more profits.

You can do manufacturing with almost any level of capital but the more you have the easier it will be in my experience.

Research

When it comes to research most people think of this as being more ME/PE research on BPOs. You can do this with small amounts of capital but it can be difficult as some BPOs take weeks to months to research to good levels. Thus you have your capital tied up for a long amount of time, I would do this if you have extra slots and extra capital you won't need for several months at ;least.

If you plan on doing invention and selling it I wouldn't bother. Most people who need the T2 BPCs make them themselves so there is very low demand for them and thus small margins on trying to sell them.

Other

I have had good luck making isk quickly doing low sec DEDs and C3 WHs. If you are cautious and use some common sense you will be unlikely to die and you can make 150/m hour doing it on average I roughly estimate.

I hope that helps.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-01-07 09:38:27 UTC
When I was still hunting for relic sites in Sansha space, I did that in 4h stints, netting me about ~750M, with a variety from 500-1000M. Since intact armor plates are still at good price, I would assume the same for today. As a highsec solo miner without boosts, but near max skills and selling compressed Rich Plagioglase at 8500ISK, you can make 12M/h, today probably less than 10M due to the lower ore prices.

For manufacturing, I second what was said above, find the items with the exceptional profit, and cycle through. I can't give you numbers for ISK/h, because I don't measure profit per line or something like that. My approach is like a trader, I see a price spike, and sell to it, with the difference that I'm not competing on the buyer side, but produce the stuff I want to sell over night. I'm usually triggered by a profit margin around 50% and a buy price above my production costs. This plus the 5 planet PI farm makes me (using only one char) ~5B per months, not including patch and event speculation which can make much more in short time.

You certainly can scale this with more chars, more hauling, and spending more time micromanage, or playing the 0.01ISK game the whole day on 100 orders, but this is not what I'm considering fun. My aim is for the easy profit or if it is associated with some fun gameplay, even if I miss out a lot of opportunities and will not become space rich. Blink

I'm my own NPC alt.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-01-07 10:37:33 UTC
I play as a vertically integrated manufacturer selling in the smaller trade hubs. Because I harvest my PI and make my components, the profit margins are excellent. I measure the value I receive from Eve in enjoyment, not ISK so I don't keep very close track of the hours I play or the income I earn but it will be in the 30-40 million/hour range. That's an average over every hour I spend logged in to the game. I've had days when I restocked my market before going to bed and was a billion ISK richer when I got up in the morning.

I am generating more of my income through blueprint copies - when you consider how much actual play time is required to submit a copy job and create a contract, the ISK/hour is pretty spectacular! An Orca BPC kit that sells for 100 million represents less than 10 minutes actual work - the rest takes place in the background, industry jobs and markets don't care if I am logged in or not. Of course, there was a substantial investment required to purchase and research the BPOs but that work is done and the BPOs have doubled in value as a consequence.
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#5 - 2017-01-07 14:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rykker Bow
Station trading is my bread and butter for making isk and has been for the last 8 years or so. The majority of the first few years of gameplay was in the markets and during the last few years whenever I needed isk I did a few weeks of trading to replenish the wallet. When I'm in it full time trading, about 2-4 hours a day spread out over the entire day, my station trading income was 60-90 billion a month. If I'm sharing game time while pvp'ing I bring in about 30 billion a month. Amount of capital needed is about 30-40 billion for my trading plan and most times profits can easily be reinserted into more trading. The plan is pretty solid with a select few individuals in on it who've tested and still use it to this day.

Speculation is a good, very passive source of income. On game expansions 50-100 billion is what I go for. It does take a large amount of capital and you could need as much as 2 to 3 times your projected profit to earn that. Last expansion I used ~80b to make ~80b profits iirc.

Manufacturing. I've done it before on a large scale in conjunction with RAW23 and Varo Jan. With a three man team and 100 billion in infrastructure we reached over 100 billion a month in profits. It's hard to go into any kind of detail and not reveal sources and methods.

All the mmo's I've played I've been drawn to the money making side. Looking for the most effective methods of making is and then plain exploiting those methods to their fullest. Eve is the best game in that regard in both the dynamic of the player driven markets and the ability to spend those profits in character and item purchases.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2017-01-07 17:51:19 UTC
ratting in null is 15 25m ticks with subcaps.
150 ticks with supers.

mining atm cool guys do it in rorquals = 300m

mission depends but i would say it's more then 40m

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-01-07 18:44:37 UTC
Forgot one, solo PvP in lowsec mixed with PvE ... actually the last year with my Svipul made me ~100M per run average (couple of hours on weekends mostly), losses already discounted. The income was from loot, lost drones (those Geckos in incursion systems P), fighters, DED sites, clone soldiers, whatever you can find with probes and kill. Twisted

I'm my own NPC alt.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-01-07 23:48:12 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
When I was still hunting for relic sites in Sansha space, I did that in 4h stints, netting me about ~750M, with a variety from 500-1000M. Since intact armor plates are still at good price, I would assume the same for today. As a highsec solo miner without boosts, but near max skills and selling compressed Rich Plagioglase at 8500ISK, you can make 12M/h, today probably less than 10M due to the lower ore prices.

For manufacturing, I second what was said above, find the items with the exceptional profit, and cycle through. I can't give you numbers for ISK/h, because I don't measure profit per line or something like that. My approach is like a trader, I see a price spike, and sell to it, with the difference that I'm not competing on the buyer side, but produce the stuff I want to sell over night. I'm usually triggered by a profit margin around 50% and a buy price above my production costs. This plus the 5 planet PI farm makes me (using only one char) ~5B per months, not including patch and event speculation which can make much more in short time.

You certainly can scale this with more chars, more hauling, and spending more time micromanage, or playing the 0.01ISK game the whole day on 100 orders, but this is not what I'm considering fun. My aim is for the easy profit or if it is associated with some fun gameplay, even if I miss out a lot of opportunities and will not become space rich. Blink


In regard to manufacturing at 50% or there abouts i am having exceptionally hard time finding anything even in the 30%, and i can check the combat market fairly quickly, maybe i am in not so great location for that, but manufacturing for profit be it t1 ships or modules or t2 mods seems like a minor passive income instead of a major isk pipeline. For the sake of argument the operation is in dodixie and the margins there absolutely blows, if my memory serves me right, i had a trading operation going few years back and all go to items or about 60 more or less used mods , with a capital of 10 bill which pretty much covered any daily consumption. What gets me the most is the fact that the consumption is so frigin low, and on top of that lots of modules that poeple use mainly in high slots are brought in from mission salvage aka like prototype rails, and other t1 mods from salvagin seems to be hurting the manufacturer, to produces most of t1 stuff with perfect ME is still a 10-15% loss lol, even if u buy mats i am not sure yo gona get even rofl.

I was watching Markeedragon and what he was doing, and it sounded like he had 8-10 chars and his daily profit lets say from manufacturing would be max 400 m ish or so per day, semi active days arround 200, which is about 20-30 mill per indy toon per day, idk if this good or bad but seems like the consumption is the issue here.

Like even for the sake of example you cant take one item per slot and manufactured it, you will overproduce the consumtion of that items within 24 hour manufacturing cycle, in which case u might need few day or week or even weeks to completely liquidate that. Imho it really shows that either manufacturing per slot is too frigin fast or the volume of goods conumed is simply stupidly low, when one manufactures with only 1 slot can out supply the market, thats what i find out of balance.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-01-07 23:55:40 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
ratting in null is 15 25m ticks with subcaps.
150 ticks with supers.

mining atm cool guys do it in rorquals = 300m

mission depends but i would say it's more then 40m



300 m an hour in rorq? if ye i am moving roq pilot to a very special secure location which i have not figured out :P
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-01-08 00:00:50 UTC
Do Little wrote:
I play as a vertically integrated manufacturer selling in the smaller trade hubs. Because I harvest my PI and make my components, the profit margins are excellent. I measure the value I receive from Eve in enjoyment, not ISK so I don't keep very close track of the hours I play or the income I earn but it will be in the 30-40 million/hour range. That's an average over every hour I spend logged in to the game. I've had days when I restocked my market before going to bed and was a billion ISK richer when I got up in the morning.

I am generating more of my income through blueprint copies - when you consider how much actual play time is required to submit a copy job and create a contract, the ISK/hour is pretty spectacular! An Orca BPC kit that sells for 100 million represents less than 10 minutes actual work - the rest takes place in the background, industry jobs and markets don't care if I am logged in or not. Of course, there was a substantial investment required to purchase and research the BPOs but that work is done and the BPOs have doubled in value as a consequence.


Ye i was looking into passive set up as well, so that i can spend 90% time in combat or PVP etc, I was looking at some math and mroe or less stable prices for max research capital componenets market, but its taking 7.5 month for the massive investement to mature, i did some scenarios and it seems like if you get 10 research slots phased in it will generate 2 bill a month profit of doing basically nothing, but that profit can only be harvested once every 7.5 month which is a long time-frame lol. now if i wanted to liquidate my hard and char assest and get roughly 45 bill and set up 3x toons on that 45 bill richer after 7.5 month but the bloody wait time too many things might change idk.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2017-01-08 00:02:42 UTC
Rykker Bow wrote:
Station trading is my bread and butter for making isk and has been for the last 8 years or so. The majority of the first few years of gameplay was in the markets and during the last few years whenever I needed isk I did a few weeks of trading to replenish the wallet. When I'm in it full time trading, about 2-4 hours a day spread out over the entire day, my station trading income was 60-90 billion a month. If I'm sharing game time while pvp'ing I bring in about 30 billion a month. Amount of capital needed is about 30-40 billion for my trading plan and most times profits can easily be reinserted into more trading. The plan is pretty solid with a select few individuals in on it who've tested and still use it to this day.

Speculation is a good, very passive source of income. On game expansions 50-100 billion is what I go for. It does take a large amount of capital and you could need as much as 2 to 3 times your projected profit to earn that. Last expansion I used ~80b to make ~80b profits iirc.

Manufacturing. I've done it before on a large scale in conjunction with RAW23 and Varo Jan. With a three man team and 100 billion in infrastructure we reached over 100 billion a month in profits. It's hard to go into any kind of detail and not reveal sources and methods.

All the mmo's I've played I've been drawn to the money making side. Looking for the most effective methods of making is and then plain exploiting those methods to their fullest. Eve is the best game in that regard in both the dynamic of the player driven markets and the ability to spend those profits in character and item purchases.


The citadel specultion made me cry when i found out about it when i got back 10x profit margins, i could make up to 600 bill in that speculation, man i need lots of phyco therapy and tissues about that one lol.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2017-01-08 00:15:59 UTC
Hey Rykker one more question for lets say you station trade in range between 10-30 bill, whats the speed of the goods turn over?

option 1 daily checks

option 2 full time station trading

I am leaning to wards option 2, as its roughly 1 round of world of tanks :P
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2017-01-08 00:23:21 UTC
Strrog wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
ratting in null is 15 25m ticks with subcaps.
150 ticks with supers.

mining atm cool guys do it in rorquals = 300m

mission depends but i would say it's more then 40m



300 m an hour in rorq? if ye i am moving roq pilot to a very special secure location which i have not figured out :P


ye, it was 400+ before nerf :|

It's a isk printing machine atm ...

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-01-08 00:32:19 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
Strrog wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
ratting in null is 15 25m ticks with subcaps.
150 ticks with supers.

mining atm cool guys do it in rorquals = 300m

mission depends but i would say it's more then 40m



300 m an hour in rorq? if ye i am moving roq pilot to a very special secure location which i have not figured out :P


ye, it was 400+ before nerf :|

It's a isk printing machine atm ...


ugh this got my interest now :P
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#15 - 2017-01-08 04:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rykker Bow
Strrog wrote:
Hey Rykker one more question for lets say you station trade in range between 10-30 bill, whats the speed of the goods turn over?
P


The speed turnover is going to be dependent on the type of goods you trade. I lean toward low volume, high margin items with very low total regional turnover. With that said, I aim for a personal daily turnover of 5-8% of the total regional volume. For example, If an item has 100 regional turnover, I aim for buying 5-8 units per day. As the buying side is usually the harder part of buying and selling I consider the selling side a done deal and not part of my equation.

(0.05*regional turnover)*net profit margin = item daily profit

That's the metric by which I measure the potential of the items I trade.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2017-01-08 07:10:47 UTC
Strrog wrote:

... Dodixie ...

... is too small and you won't find the high margin stuff even listed there.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Dethmourne Silvermane
Oasis United
#17 - 2017-01-08 08:38:17 UTC
FWIW, when I log into do wormhole sites, not counting the time to scan/etc (which is highly variable) I clock my C4 rattlesnake at about 200m isk/hr. You could do a bit better in C4s and a lot better in C5/C6 sites with the right fits; the major downside is of course the relative insecurity combined with the expense required of fitting the ship properly.

Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.

Interested Party (TM)
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2017-01-08 09:15:34 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Strrog wrote:

... Dodixie ...

... is too small and you won't find the high margin stuff even listed there.


Hehe you made me feel as if i am a white guy trying to sell chicken fried rice in china town :P
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2017-01-08 09:18:52 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
FWIW, when I log into do wormhole sites, not counting the time to scan/etc (which is highly variable) I clock my C4 rattlesnake at about 200m isk/hr. You could do a bit better in C4s and a lot better in C5/C6 sites with the right fits; the major downside is of course the relative insecurity combined with the expense required of fitting the ship properly.

Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


How does risk of a good WH comares to ratting in null these days? I remember i wanted to put an alt in a WH corp, but the story of a roaming gang killing off pos and a thanatos kinda made it feel meh :P
Dethmourne Silvermane
Oasis United
#20 - 2017-01-09 03:06:31 UTC
Strrog wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
FWIW, when I log into do wormhole sites, not counting the time to scan/etc (which is highly variable) I clock my C4 rattlesnake at about 200m isk/hr. You could do a bit better in C4s and a lot better in C5/C6 sites with the right fits; the major downside is of course the relative insecurity combined with the expense required of fitting the ship properly.

Rorqual mining is probably the best "no thinking" income right now without major training.


How does risk of a good WH comares to ratting in null these days? I remember i wanted to put an alt in a WH corp, but the story of a roaming gang killing off pos and a thanatos kinda made it feel meh :P


I'd say WH is much riskier.

Interested Party (TM)
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