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Research or Invention
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Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-01-06 07:52:22 UTC
I imagine the question is basically matter of figuring how long until research eclipses invention in profits after the fact that it also requires investment in buying BPO like for fortizar or something, other than the fact that it may not be viable to do it personally with a single alt?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-01-06 08:02:54 UTC
What? Don't get your point, can you rephrase your question?

I'm my own NPC alt.
Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-01-06 08:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Illindar Tyrannus
Tipa Riot wrote:
What? Don't get your point, can you rephrase your question?


I take it research and invention require your research slots to which end I ask myself if I ought to bother myself with training for research or invention. I hear inventing JF or fighters is profitable unlike doing general invention which doesn't entirely have the market as manufacturers invent themselves. I see myself spending half a year before I see substantial profits from obtaining some niche BPO and doing jobs on it.

PS in fact simply using T1 BPO for that matter.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2017-01-06 08:15:38 UTC
So you want to know if it's more profitable to use your science slots to do ME, TE, copy, or invention? Is that the thrust of the question?
Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-01-06 08:21:52 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
So you want to know if it's more profitable to use your science slots to do ME, TE, copy, or invention? Is that the thrust of the question?


I read the relevant euni articles and I suspect the distinction of researching ME or TE, so it's basically that of doing invention or attaining something worthy of copying.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-01-06 08:30:07 UTC
Just my 2c, my main profit comes from manufacturing, hence research & invention is "only" utility optimizing T1 production and securing the supply of T2 BPCs. I tried some niche T1 BPO research only for sales, but the profits are slow.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Taurean Eltanin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2017-01-06 08:46:07 UTC
That makes sense. BPOs are non-consumable, so the market would be limited to those new to manufacturing that particular product, and those who had lost their BPO somehow.

If you like reading about low sec piracy or wormhole pvp, you might enjoy my blog.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-01-06 08:54:10 UTC
Taurean Eltanin wrote:
That makes sense. BPOs are non-consumable, so the market would be limited to those new to manufacturing that particular product, and those who had lost their BPO somehow.

Yes, but selling researched BPC of expensive BPOs is a thing, although it would take ages to recoup, so probably more a side business, if you have/use the BPO anyway.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#9 - 2017-01-06 09:09:25 UTC
I invent to manufacture and sell blueprint copies for capital components.

Research/copying is an ideal career for the second and third characters on your account. It's about 30 days training - Science, Research, Laboratory Operation, Metallurgy 5, Advanced Laboratory Operation 4, Scientific Networking and Cybernetics 3 (MY-703, RR-603, SC-803 implant). The blueprints you can make money on are expensive, take a long time to research to a competitive level and the job cost for that research is expensive. A fully researched capital component blueprint is worth twice as much as a raw print - arguably a better investment than storing your wealth in PLEX. Copies sell quickly and profitably with little effort. I am moving into BPC kits as my hull prints achieve a competitive level of research. There is a bit more work involved assembling the kits but my experience thus far has been positive. People appear willing to pay a premium for the convenience. I've trained my research characters for PI as well. Another 30 days training will do it and it doesn't take long to recover that investment.

Invention is chance based so you need a much larger investment in skills to achieve reasonable results. I use my T2 prints for manufacturing so I can't say much about selling them. I assume it is a more crowded market. More people will have the skills to invent than the cash and patience to buy and research a set of capital prints.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2017-01-06 09:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Do Little wrote:
I invent to manufacture and sell blueprint copies for capital components.

Research/copying is an ideal career for the second and third characters on your account. It's about 30 days training - Science, Research, Laboratory Operation, Metallurgy 5, Advanced Laboratory Operation 4, Scientific Networking and Cybernetics 3 (MY-703, RR-603, SC-803 implant). The blueprints you can make money on are expensive, take a long time to research to a competitive level and the job cost for that research is expensive. A fully researched capital component blueprint is worth twice as much as a raw print - arguably a better investment than storing your wealth in PLEX. Copies sell quickly and profitably with little effort. I am moving into BPC kits as my hull prints achieve a competitive level of research. There is a bit more work involved assembling the kits but my experience thus far has been positive. People appear willing to pay a premium for the convenience. I've trained my research characters for PI as well. Another 30 days training will do it and it doesn't take long to recover that investment.

Invention is chance based so you need a much larger investment in skills to achieve reasonable results. I use my T2 prints for manufacturing so I can't say much about selling them. I assume it is a more crowded market. More people will have the skills to invent than the cash and patience to buy and research a set of capital prints.


This is solid advice. If you have *loads* of excess capital looking to invest you could also look at ECs and citadels -- same basic idea, kits will sell for more, solid ME looks better than it actually is, etc. Not as many players in that market, but there's good reason for it as the BPOs on the structures themselves are expensive. But if you packed them up with, say, essential service modules and offered some option on rig prints I bet you could make a killing.

Edit: if you have 100bil+ to invest. Which is why I'm not doing it. But I'm sure a market exists.
Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-01-06 10:06:05 UTC
Do Little wrote:
I invent to manufacture and sell blueprint copies for capital components.

Research/copying is an ideal career for the second and third characters on your account. It's about 30 days training - Science, Research, Laboratory Operation, Metallurgy 5, Advanced Laboratory Operation 4, Scientific Networking and Cybernetics 3 (MY-703, RR-603, SC-803 implant). The blueprints you can make money on are expensive, take a long time to research to a competitive level and the job cost for that research is expensive. A fully researched capital component blueprint is worth twice as much as a raw print - arguably a better investment than storing your wealth in PLEX. Copies sell quickly and profitably with little effort. I am moving into BPC kits as my hull prints achieve a competitive level of research. There is a bit more work involved assembling the kits but my experience thus far has been positive. People appear willing to pay a premium for the convenience. I've trained my research characters for PI as well. Another 30 days training will do it and it doesn't take long to recover that investment.

Invention is chance based so you need a much larger investment in skills to achieve reasonable results. I use my T2 prints for manufacturing so I can't say much about selling them. I assume it is a more crowded market. More people will have the skills to invent than the cash and patience to buy and research a set of capital prints.


Heh, I'm looking to join provi bloc, and Im concerned that it's not exactly worth it as far as manufacturing is concerned although there're unusual amount of indy corps within it. I doubt that you would either move in minerals in an freighter or pay 300m to black frog logistics to even have finished product moved out.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#12 - 2017-01-06 14:23:47 UTC
Illindar Tyrannus wrote:
Do Little wrote:
I invent to manufacture and sell blueprint copies for capital components.

Research/copying is an ideal career for the second and third characters on your account. It's about 30 days training - Science, Research, Laboratory Operation, Metallurgy 5, Advanced Laboratory Operation 4, Scientific Networking and Cybernetics 3 (MY-703, RR-603, SC-803 implant). The blueprints you can make money on are expensive, take a long time to research to a competitive level and the job cost for that research is expensive. A fully researched capital component blueprint is worth twice as much as a raw print - arguably a better investment than storing your wealth in PLEX. Copies sell quickly and profitably with little effort. I am moving into BPC kits as my hull prints achieve a competitive level of research. There is a bit more work involved assembling the kits but my experience thus far has been positive. People appear willing to pay a premium for the convenience. I've trained my research characters for PI as well. Another 30 days training will do it and it doesn't take long to recover that investment.

Invention is chance based so you need a much larger investment in skills to achieve reasonable results. I use my T2 prints for manufacturing so I can't say much about selling them. I assume it is a more crowded market. More people will have the skills to invent than the cash and patience to buy and research a set of capital prints.


Heh, I'm looking to join provi bloc, and Im concerned that it's not exactly worth it as far as manufacturing is concerned although there're unusual amount of indy corps within it. I doubt that you would either move in minerals in an freighter or pay 300m to black frog logistics to even have finished product moved out.


The advantage of nul are the resources. For example, PI is very easy to produce in nul sec. You could make far more mechanical parts locally on a nul barren planet than a hi sec one.

You could use those PI marerisls to reduce costs and increase profit. Add in sourcing morphite locally and you may not need to import your raw material at all. Then sell locally if possible or haul out using a deep space or covert hauler.

Another example is rocket fuel. This is used to make t2 missiles. Buying rocket fuel kills your profit margin. Making it in nul can change that. Of course this comes with the "what I mine is free" fallicy. it may be more profitable to sell the PI lesser materials for more profit than making rocket fuel. There may also be a more profitable PI you can make and sell. Look at T2 micro shield extenders. They cost a lot and are cheap to make yet the trade volume is so small that you will never see a profit.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-01-06 15:45:44 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Do Little wrote:
I invent to manufacture and sell blueprint copies for capital components.

Research/copying is an ideal career for the second and third characters on your account. It's about 30 days training - Science, Research, Laboratory Operation, Metallurgy 5, Advanced Laboratory Operation 4, Scientific Networking and Cybernetics 3 (MY-703, RR-603, SC-803 implant). The blueprints you can make money on are expensive, take a long time to research to a competitive level and the job cost for that research is expensive. A fully researched capital component blueprint is worth twice as much as a raw print - arguably a better investment than storing your wealth in PLEX. Copies sell quickly and profitably with little effort. I am moving into BPC kits as my hull prints achieve a competitive level of research. There is a bit more work involved assembling the kits but my experience thus far has been positive. People appear willing to pay a premium for the convenience. I've trained my research characters for PI as well. Another 30 days training will do it and it doesn't take long to recover that investment.

Invention is chance based so you need a much larger investment in skills to achieve reasonable results. I use my T2 prints for manufacturing so I can't say much about selling them. I assume it is a more crowded market. More people will have the skills to invent than the cash and patience to buy and research a set of capital prints.


This is solid advice. If you have *loads* of excess capital looking to invest you could also look at ECs and citadels -- same basic idea, kits will sell for more, solid ME looks better than it actually is, etc. Not as many players in that market, but there's good reason for it as the BPOs on the structures themselves are expensive. But if you packed them up with, say, essential service modules and offered some option on rig prints I bet you could make a killing.

Edit: if you have 100bil+ to invest. Which is why I'm not doing it. But I'm sure a market exists.

Last time I checked, citadel researched BPOs sell for less than NPC price, so it's hardly a good investment (CCP made them well overpriced to remove ISK I suppose). BPC kits maybe a thing, but the structure stuff suffers from material shortage, which drives the prices.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#14 - 2017-01-06 17:29:43 UTC
The nullsec alliance I am a member of is a Provibloc holder. We're located in Catch with a major war in our backyard!

Industry in nullsec is quite different than highsec. Markets are fragmented and thinly traded so simply building something that sells well in highsec and putting it on the local market doesn't always work. PI is great. Most corporations are looking for PI to fuel existing structures or build new ones. Doctrine ships also work well. These will be fitted, rigged, armed and offered on contract at your alliance staging system. Regular JF service is available at reasonable rates. Stuff like meta modules and faction ammo can be shipped in quite reasonably. You pay by the M3 so plan on building bulky stuff like ships - they cost too much to ship.

I have characters in both highsec and nulsec and usually have a good sized shipment going both ways. They complement each other nicely.
Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2017-01-12 15:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Illindar Tyrannus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-aVon4_vaQ
This explains that researching stuff is the more passive version where you'd have to log in only a couple of times a month. I imagine invention should be more lucrative then that though.

*The one for BO research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2rtGCDQ_yw
Antheria
VVV Enterprises
#16 - 2017-01-13 20:35:06 UTC
Making ISK in this game from industry is relatively easy once you realise that whatever you do requires careful thought, research & a good dose of patience.

I think a lot of us try to achieve the goal of "passive" income generation. There are many ways to achieve that but it will take time & you will make mistakes along the way.