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Gameplay design reason behind needing to spam d-scan?

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#121 - 2017-01-05 17:15:08 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
guigui lechat wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Vigirr wrote:

It is a strain but it's needed for normal game play


So it's a strain, but the game apparently works just fine? Then it isn't a strain.

You don't know what you are talking about.


It's a strain that CCP, over the years, has accounted for and upgraded their servers and infrastructure for given that it's a basic UI element of the game, which Dscan isn't.


Your aggressive tone and continuous stream of insults only show your lack of knowledge on the subject.

In our case, the dscan can be cached so that the server only sends information once for evey ship that changes grid. This is way less computing-intense than the overview : the overview sends every second the informations of the grid : modules cycling, speed vectors of the objects (drones, missiles, npcs, ships of course). Which is a LOT more computation than sending a cached data on request.

So, NO in the present case there is no "strain effect" to prevent dscan from being automated. Maybe it is poorly implemented and CCP doesn't want to spend time on it, but the present functionnalities could be automated with no cost.



D-scan requires you to check the range to _every_ item in system. Not just the ones on grid with you. That's a significantly higher number.


The overview is automated, scan further then 14 AU in the system and will in many case show more unique object than the D-SCAN with much more info being displayed on top of that but does not cripple the server somehow.
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#122 - 2017-01-05 20:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: guigui lechat
Rain6637 wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
You can hotkey d-scan now. It's easier than ever.

why... did this thread continue beyond post #2. Is there a gameplay reason for this?

To make you cry, basically. You look like a child crying and getting angry to get what he wants, and that's funny.

Also, no the Dscan does not require to check EVERY elements. All those wich are in a grid too far away can be forgoten.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2017-01-05 22:07:49 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
There's also a technical reason for it.

D-Scan is a fairly expensive process. As it has to check the distance to _everything_ in the system.

Automating it for 1 person wouldn't be a problem. if it was _everyone?_

The thing is that you don't need to touch EVERY object: you have filters. And no one uses d-scan without them.
Another one: the game already checks whether objects are in the same grid or not. It can be completely separate system though..... But they NEED to touch every object in system to check if it enters or leaves some grid. And for this you NEED to calculate distance.
And talking about _everyone_: it's not that everyone uses d-scan. Even in big fleet battles it is usually few people that work with it (99% of participants are 'F1 monkeys' anyway).

My bet is that d-scan is just another feature from list "let's make it somehow and forget for ages". It just needs some time to get attention of some 'creative' person who will make it unusable but pretty looking....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#124 - 2017-01-05 23:52:42 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
There's also a technical reason for it.

D-Scan is a fairly expensive process. As it has to check the distance to _everything_ in the system.

Automating it for 1 person wouldn't be a problem. if it was _everyone?_

The thing is that you don't need to touch EVERY object: you have filters. And no one uses d-scan without them.
Another one: the game already checks whether objects are in the same grid or not. It can be completely separate system though..... But they NEED to touch every object in system to check if it enters or leaves some grid. And for this you NEED to calculate distance.
And talking about _everyone_: it's not that everyone uses d-scan. Even in big fleet battles it is usually few people that work with it (99% of participants are 'F1 monkeys' anyway).

My bet is that d-scan is just another feature from list "let's make it somehow and forget for ages". It just needs some time to get attention of some 'creative' person who will make it unusable but pretty looking....

Thing is, the filters aren't applied when you scan. They're applied on display. Try scanning, then changing the filter back and forth. It's instant. (and the data doesn't change)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2017-01-06 01:04:06 UTC
guigui lechat wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
You can hotkey d-scan now. It's easier than ever.

why... did this thread continue beyond post #2. Is there a gameplay reason for this?

To make you cry, basically. You look like a child crying and getting angry to get what he wants, and that's funny.

Also, no the Dscan does not require to check EVERY elements. All those wich are in a grid too far away can be forgoten.

I reported your post for insults. Your choice of aggressive terms may make you feel you are superior but this thread was not for ****-size competition, so go play this game somewhere else.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#126 - 2017-01-06 01:30:04 UTC
my biggest issue is that, like the cloak, I don't get the lore behind it. It seems to me completely counter-realistic. Like the need to be at 75% speed to warp, the guns that hits instantly (only lasers should)
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2017-01-06 02:37:22 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:

I reported your post for insults. Your choice of aggressive terms may make you feel you are superior but this thread was not for ****-size competition, so go play this game somewhere else.


Come on, quit with the 'reports' please. Makes it sound like you are a grade school kid 'telling' on people. Don't know how old you are, but grown-ups should handle their own business.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2017-01-06 02:39:27 UTC
guigui lechat wrote:
my biggest issue is that, like the cloak, I don't get the lore behind it. It seems to me completely counter-realistic. Like the need to be at 75% speed to warp, the guns that hits instantly (only lasers should)


Totally agree with lasers. I've thought about this many times. All other guns besides lasers should have a delay. Railguns the fastest, missiles next, shells the slowest.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2017-01-06 02:58:06 UTC
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#130 - 2017-01-06 03:55:27 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
okay but what would the gameplay reason be


What... having lasers hit instantly, but other weapons not hit instantly? Fodder for another thread, but quickly, it adds more variety to weapons systems and makes them more different vs being more alike, gives them more unique pluses and minuses so there's more reason to use one or the other depending on what you want to do, and also does so in a way that mimics real life (i.e. realism).

Basically, add 'flavor' to the game.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2017-01-06 07:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Beast of Revelations, you make an interesting point about adding uniqueness to game mechanics we may have grown to take for granted. What do you think of remote transfers being subject to damage calculations like turrets?

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#132 - 2017-01-06 12:32:02 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
What do you think of remote transfers being subject to damage calculations like turrets?

It's out of the scope of this thread.
eveyn
#133 - 2017-01-06 17:17:53 UTC
I am grateful for this thread. It has reaffirmed my faith in just how super-cool forum gamers are becoming. In an overwhelming shift in balance, snark and carefully structured sarcasm now out-way debate and conversation. Finally! Yes. The remaining undiscovered secrets to society, civilization, our world, and even our great universe will only be realized through the persistence of assumption, followed by biased confirmation and island logic vacuums. The truth is, time is wasted on the considerate. Curiosity should only ever be stamped out as a traitor to blind confidence! There is no greater understanding than to simply know already. I am excited to witness this turning point in humanity. May it serve us all well in our collective future.

Noticing the slight irony of my post, I see that I am well on my way to becoming a forum metalite. Baby steps, of course! But still. This is truly an honor. May I serve this sacred order well, forever and ever....

Big smile
Dracones
Tarsis Inc
#134 - 2017-01-06 17:59:48 UTC

  1. D-scan is a very old game mechanic. How it works is actually pretty dated when compared to newer mechanics like active probing.

  2. The playerbase has come to heavily depend on it though. Just removing it, or other outdated mechanics like local, would have a massive impact on the game meta and could break many things.

  3. It's hard to come up with a newer, more modern replacement for D-scan which preserves the current game balance and doesn't cause lag problems and so on.


So the devs just spend their time on other aspects of the game instead. CCP does make changes to the core of the game(SOV capturing, citadels, jump mechanics), and I'm sure D-scan is on a few TODOs to come up with a better replacement. But it's probably just not a high priority.