EVE General Discussion

The 'fun vampires'? You mean, the people having their own kind of fun? You are playing this game with other people, who are just as entitled to play it their way as you are to play it yours. People aren't playing this game to suck the fun out of it for others, they are playing it to have their own fun.

Also, what exactly is an 'expert on self-justification'? You seem to be making subjective judgement calls of players you know nothing about, grouping them into a category that makes them 'less' or 'different' to you somehow so that you can, one could say 'self-justify', your rationalisation of their behaviour as something that's 'typical' of people in that category. But I don't see any of your research to objectively define this category, nor do I see a citation.

Let me explain, in the simplest terms, how things in EVE work. I'm going to go and do what I want, and if that involves blowing you up, and you can't stop me from blowing you up, then you're going to get blown up. If you want to call me a griefer for that, that's fine, it's just a word. It won't stop me from continuing to blow up you, or anybody else that I feel like blowing up. My motives for doing that can be as eloquent as, you happened to be there, and you can try to guess at my motives all you want. Guess what? The only thing that's going to stop me from blowing you up, is you. If you want to hurl pejoratives at me, assume questionable motives, etc etc, you are actually going to encourage me to come after you even more, just to remind you that I can.

alpha clones are useless, yet free.

Is it griefing to beat someone at Chess?

Should you as a Chess player, allow a newer Chess player to beat you so as to make him feel good at Chess and maybe keep playing Chess, or do you play him honestly and accept that if he can't handle losing at Chess he likely won't be playing Chess for long anyway?

Stop throwing lame arguments about keeping vs driving away new players. EvE is all about getting griefed / abused / tricked and beaten up. It's like the wild west in space and that's exactly how it's supposed to be. New players who are driven away by this kind of gameplay quite literally are not right for the game, and i don't mean that in some harsh or flamey way.

The way you talk about this subject is kind of butt-hurt and i feel like you would define anything that negatively affected your freedom to do what you want as griefing, which it isn't.

So a thread about Alpha clones turns into a thread about the definition of griefing...

I know that the OP asked if it was just a tool for griefing and the simple answer is no not really as Alpha's are pretty gimped anyway.

I have seen CCP do a couiple of things about people using exploits and that actually made me sub again, yes bumping is still the easy no risk way of pointing someone with zero consequences and yes they can still loot scoop through DST's etc. and yes they can still do scam contracts to Citadels and Indy structures and yes they can now let the public indy structure run out of fuel so you lose all your material, and Rorquals are so over-powered that hisec indy is even more toast then it was and ...

Damn I better stop before I decide to de-sub again, but the combat system for fleet fights is really good now, the different abilities of key ships make getting involved in fleet fights at a medium level very interesting and fun, now if I can be bothered to do the logistics I would join some mad Aussies for fun and games...

Have fun...

EVE is 14 years old in a few weeks. It may be time to come to terms with the fact that non consensual PvP is part of the game.

I might remind you that this discussion is in context of the op alluding to being "griefed" out of his nullsec space.

You got chased out of Null because someone dropped a Citadel and you could not remove it but your actual question is if Alpha Accounts are a problem? OK...

Not in my experience. I do mostly WH exploration at the moment and I can tell who is an Alpha player because they have no cloaks. Most of the time they leave the system when they see me or my probes on d-scan. Perhaps there are less relic sites now because more explores are around. If I think hacking isn’t worth the effort anymore because to much alphas daytrip into WH space I can switch form explorer to exploder anytime.

My only only highsec encounter with an Alpha-Player was a Gnosis that tried to shot down my Bader after I looted the remains of a marauder. The DPS was so anemic and his ship so slow that I just crawled out of point range and got away while chatting with him in local. Saw the same guy in a Cane a few weeks later and greeted him with "welcome to Omega, you won't regret it." He answered that he didn’t.

Can’t say much about low-sec and null-sec because I can’t really tell who is an alpha and who is just sitting in an expandable ship. But most pilots are older than Ascension so I would say it is safe to assume that there are not enough Alphas in low and null-sec to make much of a difference.

If you wanted to grief people with a low skill character you could use the trail before Ascension, only thing that changed is that you don’t have to make a new one every 3 weeks. The only increase I saw was even more scams at hubs, but who cares? It is less the pilot or your “name” that is at stake when you go miner bumping anyway – it is your time.

You got that wrong, he said nothing about being griefed out of null sec just that his corp was unable to keep their space, then his question was did Alpha clones make it easier for griefers and in my opinion the answer to that is no. Are you turning into a full on HTFU type who only takes in what he thinks he reads based on his perception of the person making the post?

Well, if that was the case, then the first paragraph is meaningless. I also understood it, as "We lost our space. With the introduction of Alphas, does this mean that it will be easier for people to just throw zerg accounts at us, thus making it even harder to hold space?"

If he was only asking about the general ability to grief with Alphas, then the post without the first paragraph would make more sense. There is really no reason for him to mention that he lost space in that scenario.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. The answer is still "No" in both instances.

Not really. Griefing has a specific definition which CCP has defined to cover certain specific and defined types of play. Chasing someone out of nullsec like the OP, for example, is intended gameplay regardless of the player motivations.

You can call players "griefers" all you want, but you do not and cannot really know what motivates them. Whether they shoot other players non-consensually purely because they gain satisfaction in dominating other players, or they want the other players stuff, or perhaps they have some other abstract reason to hunt other players against their will, it doesn't matter. Non-consensual PvP is intended and even desired game play as defined by CCP, so the reasons for the act are irrelevant, just like whether the motivation of the chess grandmaster to win is the tournament prize, the ego boost of winning or a desire to make the other guy feel bad doesn't make a difference: checkmating your opponent is intended and legal game play.

I know you understand this Dracvlad and are just in your 'forum PvP' mode, but you do a disservice to players who are new to Eve with your forum games. Whether another player explodes you because they want to make you sad or because they want something you have makes no difference - it is your responsibility in this game to protect your assets. Enabling newer players with your rhetoric to define themselves as victims and wrongly try to push this responsibility onto the aggressor or CCP helps no one. It is all intended game play.