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Meta Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane completly useless
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Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#1 - 2017-01-02 00:20:22 UTC
This problem exists for more than 4 years now. Since CCP fixed many such problems already, I guess it's time this one gets fixed aswell.

The meta variants of the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane currently have no use in eve. The only reason why they are worth anything is because a lot of people don't realize this.

This is a list of the useless items:

Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 24 CPU)
Experimental Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 25 CPU)
Limited Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 27 CPU)
Upgraded Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 28 CPU)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 30 CPU)

There is not a single situation when you should ever use one of these in a ship. One of the following 2 Modules will ALWAYS be better:

Adaptive Nano Plating II (15,4% resists, 0 CPU)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (20% resists, 36 CPU)

To be more precise Adaptive Nano Plating II is already better in every case. It costs no CPU and offers higher resistances. It costs a little over 200k and only needs "Hull Upgrades 4" (which takes no time to train). And its not only slightly better, but by A LOT. At least 24 CPU more, higher resists and cheaper?!? Also even Alpha clones can use Adaptive Nano Plating II.

Currently the only niche for these meta modules is people who don't know any better. Easy solution:

Buff the resistances of the meta variants from 15 to 17. If you use up 24 CPU more compared to the adaptive nano II, this tiny increase is the least it should offer.

You probably want to tiercide them at some point. But for the time beeing make them more than an item for the unknowing (:
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2017-01-02 00:45:21 UTC
You forgot the refuge adaptive nano plating as well.

Should be solved when they get rebalanced. Fingers crossed it gets done soon. Been hoarding these things since before prop mods were rebalanced.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#3 - 2017-01-02 06:54:06 UTC
Just a few weeks back I made a thread covering those and other modules that still have that 1-4 meta modules.

So far most of the modules that were "metacided" are a success and I collected and still do collect propulsion mods, shield extenders and others.

As Daichi said, fingers crossed they do the others before the fanfest.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2017-01-02 13:41:24 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
This problem exists for more than 4 years now. Since CCP fixed many such problems already, I guess it's time this one gets fixed aswell.

The meta variants of the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane currently have no use in eve. The only reason why they are worth anything is because a lot of people don't realize this.

This is a list of the useless items:

Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 24 CPU)
Experimental Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 25 CPU)
Limited Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 27 CPU)
Upgraded Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 28 CPU)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 30 CPU)

There is not a single situation when you should ever use one of these in a ship. One of the following 2 Modules will ALWAYS be better:

Adaptive Nano Plating II (15,4% resists, 0 CPU)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (20% resists, 36 CPU)

To be more precise Adaptive Nano Plating II is already better in every case. It costs no CPU and offers higher resistances. It costs a little over 200k and only needs "Hull Upgrades 4" (which takes no time to train). And its not only slightly better, but by A LOT. At least 24 CPU more, higher resists and cheaper?!? Also even Alpha clones can use Adaptive Nano Plating II.

Currently the only niche for these meta modules is people who don't know any better. Easy solution:

Buff the resistances of the meta variants from 15 to 17. If you use up 24 CPU more compared to the adaptive nano II, this tiny increase is the least it should offer.

You probably want to tiercide them at some point. But for the time beeing make them more than an item for the unknowing (:


They are way cheaper than the t2 ones and need less cpu. So "no use" is a bit harsh. I do not see a broken system here and CCP has other things which are a bit more out of balance than this problem.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-01-02 13:51:36 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
This problem exists for more than 4 years now. Since CCP fixed many such problems already, I guess it's time this one gets fixed aswell.

The meta variants of the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane currently have no use in eve. The only reason why they are worth anything is because a lot of people don't realize this.

This is a list of the useless items:

Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 24 CPU)
Experimental Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 25 CPU)
Limited Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 27 CPU)
Upgraded Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 28 CPU)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (15% resists, 30 CPU)

There is not a single situation when you should ever use one of these in a ship. One of the following 2 Modules will ALWAYS be better:

Adaptive Nano Plating II (15,4% resists, 0 CPU)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (20% resists, 36 CPU)

To be more precise Adaptive Nano Plating II is already better in every case. It costs no CPU and offers higher resistances. It costs a little over 200k and only needs "Hull Upgrades 4" (which takes no time to train). And its not only slightly better, but by A LOT. At least 24 CPU more, higher resists and cheaper?!? Also even Alpha clones can use Adaptive Nano Plating II.

Currently the only niche for these meta modules is people who don't know any better. Easy solution:

Buff the resistances of the meta variants from 15 to 17. If you use up 24 CPU more compared to the adaptive nano II, this tiny increase is the least it should offer.

You probably want to tiercide them at some point. But for the time beeing make them more than an item for the unknowing (:


They are way cheaper than the t2 ones and need less cpu. So "no use" is a bit harsh. I do not see a broken system here and CCP has other things which are a bit more out of balance than this problem.




The 'Refuge' Adaptive Nano Plating has the same resistance bonus as the T2 one which is higher than ALL meta 0-4 energized adaptive nano membranes, with the benefit of also having no CPU needs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-01-02 23:45:03 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:


They are way cheaper than the t2 ones and need less cpu. So "no use" is a bit harsh. I do not see a broken system here and CCP has other things which are a bit more out of balance than this problem.



Let the CCP to decide if it is important or not. Also, yes its an armor tanking module so it doesnt needs attention and fix?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#7 - 2017-01-02 23:51:57 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:


They are way cheaper than the t2 ones and need less cpu. So "no use" is a bit harsh. I do not see a broken system here and CCP has other things which are a bit more out of balance than this problem.




Use the compare tool with the meta energized adaptives and a 'refuge adaptive'.

If you have ever used any meta energized adaptive nano membranes you have been:

- paying more isk
- Using more cpu
- Getting less resist bonus

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#8 - 2017-01-03 01:43:34 UTC
I find this one quite important, as this is the most important armor resistance module in EVE.
And my fix would work for the time beeing and could be done by ccp fairly quickly i beleave.
A thing of a couple minutes of some ppl.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2017-01-03 05:35:02 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
I find this one quite important, as this is the most important armor resistance module in EVE.
And my fix would work for the time beeing and could be done by ccp fairly quickly i beleave.
A thing of a couple minutes of some ppl.



So is the Adaptive Invul for the shield tanking, but do you hear somebody cry that the meta also only has a lower cpu need. And no higher resistance bonus. Why are you not complain over that too.

Your Requirement is "Hull Upgrades V" and "Mechanics I", it is wise just to skill this (not only for this module).

Can´t really see the requirement for a change here.

@ Atomeon: I will and i´m pretty sure we will never hear something again until the next module overhoul comes.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-01-03 07:13:18 UTC
I feel like I remember a time when there was a skill that boosted Nano Plating resists but not Energized Nano Membrane resists, making it so that at max skills, Adaptive Nano Plating II had higher resists than Federation Navy Energized Nano Membrane. But maybe I'm a little off. I know I'm not completely wrong.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2017-01-05 04:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Atomeon wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:


They are way cheaper than the t2 ones and need less cpu. So "no use" is a bit harsh. I do not see a broken system here and CCP has other things which are a bit more out of balance than this problem.



Let the CCP to decide if it is important or not. Also, yes its an armor tanking module so it doesnt needs attention and fix?



Lol no let the customer decide what is important to have in their product


It doesn't need attention because nothing is urgently broken just a few allegedly useless mods that hurt no one

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2017-01-05 04:06:09 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I feel like I remember a time when there was a skill that boosted Nano Plating resists but not Energized Nano Membrane resists, making it so that at max skills, Adaptive Nano Plating II had higher resists than Federation Navy Energized Nano Membrane. But maybe I'm a little off. I know I'm not completely wrong.



The passive have always gains bonuse from the skill.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#13 - 2017-01-05 04:35:19 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I feel like I remember a time when there was a skill that boosted Nano Plating resists but not Energized Nano Membrane resists, making it so that at max skills, Adaptive Nano Plating II had higher resists than Federation Navy Energized Nano Membrane. But maybe I'm a little off. I know I'm not completely wrong.

Modules on your ship show the effect of your skills.
Modules on the market don't.

So chances are you are thinking of a display thing, rather than actually.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-01-05 07:46:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
So chances are you are thinking of a display thing, rather than actually.

Might have been looking at numbers from two different sources, or maybe I'm remembering the thing about Fed Navy EANM costing a load of cash for the same resists as T2.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#15 - 2017-01-05 09:24:13 UTC
I expect to see a lot more attention focused on module tiericide over the winter. CCP needs to complete this before player built meta modules can become a reality. The named components are already on the market - capital meta modules are currently player built.

When suggesting balance changes use the new formula: Ample, Compact, Enduring, Precise, Restrained, Scoped. The next iteration will move all meta variants to one of these categories.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2017-01-05 14:53:26 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
The meta variants of the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane currently have no use in eve. The only reason why they are worth anything is because a lot of people don't realize this.

I agree that they need to have their pass through tiercide and all but that does not mean they have no use.

Looking at these in EvE Central the T2 are essentially twice the cost of any of the T1 variants, this makes the T1 variants a viable option for those new players with small wallet balances.

Lower CPU requirements the prototype uses 24tf while the T2 uses 36tf. In a CPU tight fit and working with the anything is better than nothing theory they are in fact very useful in some situations

Skills are another reason these are valid and that your assessment of them as useless is just plain wrong.
The meta variants require hull upgrades to level 3, the T2 requires hull upgrades to level 5.
I did a quick check on a character with default mapping and no implants and those first 3 levels of the hull upgrades skill can be trained in less time than it take to train level 5 of that skilll alone. For new characters that may have so many other skills that they need to train, these modules are viable and meet a need.
And while we are on the skills thing we really have to look at the Alpha clone players. With a max skill point limit it may not be the best option to waste those limited skill points on a level 4 and a level 5 skill that only unlock a 5% boost to resistances.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2017-01-05 15:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Donnachadh wrote:
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
The meta variants of the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane currently have no use in eve. The only reason why they are worth anything is because a lot of people don't realize this.

I agree that they need to have their pass through tiercide and all but that does not mean they have no use.

Looking at these in EvE Central the T2 are essentially twice the cost of any of the T1 variants, this makes the T1 variants a viable option for those new players with small wallet balances.

Lower CPU requirements the prototype uses 24tf while the T2 uses 36tf. In a CPU tight fit and working with the anything is better than nothing theory they are in fact very useful in some situations

Skills are another reason these are valid and that your assessment of them as useless is just plain wrong.
The meta variants require hull upgrades to level 3, the T2 requires hull upgrades to level 5.
I did a quick check on a character with default mapping and no implants and those first 3 levels of the hull upgrades skill can be trained in less time than it take to train level 5 of that skilll alone. For new characters that may have so many other skills that they need to train, these modules are viable and meet a need.
And while we are on the skills thing we really have to look at the Alpha clone players. With a max skill point limit it may not be the best option to waste those limited skill points on a level 4 and a level 5 skill that only unlock a 5% boost to resistances.


You must have missed the part where people have mentioned the meta 4 adaptive nano plating offers better resistance than the meta 0-4 ENAMs at 0 CPU cost.
Edit: and only requires hull upgrades 1 to use.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2017-01-05 21:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Alphas can't use eanmII and don't quite me but I do not believe they can use nano playing II either but i may be wrong.

Fortunately i got a darkblood adaptive nano membrane drop so i go the 22.5 one but yeah there's no alternative for alphas.
Probably better off with a reactive if you have the cap for it but you can only fit one so you cant passive omni tank that effectively.
They could probably rebalance it and make the base one 12-15 and the prototype 15-17. So the 5-6 versions of it would end up with a 3% difference from 13-15 or 15-17
and if the first the others could be left alone or if the second option all the other faction membranes are given 2-3% to account for the jump from 15 to 17 in normal membranes.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2017-01-05 21:42:32 UTC
This is still going over peoples heads?

Refuge adaptive nano membranes > meta eanm in EVERY WAY.

Its more powerful. Costs less isk. Doesn't use cpu and requires less sp. If you have EVER used a meta eanm, you ****** up. Alphas should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER fit ANY eanm's. Not until they are rebalanced.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
blargderp
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2017-01-05 21:47:23 UTC
I think the real issue here is the fact that it's SIGNIFICANTLY easier and more effective to fit a shield omnitank than it is an armor omnitank. honestly armor just needs a rework all around.
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