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Vexor help!!!

Author
Tiberius Greer
Corporation 1
Job's Done.
#1 - 2017-01-02 13:56:25 UTC
Okay, I'm a rookie obviously.

I have a billion questions but I'll narrow it to just a few.

I'm an alpha at the moment, done tutorial missions and on the last sisters epic arc mission...Where you have to destroy the rogue drone. So, first attempt, lost my prized destroyer. Okay, the game is about loss, so I got over it. Decided to panic buy a vexor, not the navy issue I don't think. I equipped it with tentonhammers recommendation. (For weapons I have 2 x dual 150 railgun and 200 medium turret.) Got other stuff in the other slots to help reduce damage etc.

So off I go to test out my new beauty. I go to an asteroid field to test it on some rats....My ship missed every shot. Every. single. Shot. Are my guns too big? Are my skills too low to use a vexor? What's going on? I've clearly missed something essential.

Any help would be appreciated folks.

Tiberius.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-01-02 14:12:59 UTC
First, post your full fit.

Second, don't mix guns. Put a full rack of the same weapons on the ship

Third, your skills are probably the problem. Being able to sit in a ship doesn't make you able to fly it effectively, or at all.
Tiberius Greer
Corporation 1
Job's Done.
#3 - 2017-01-02 14:22:34 UTC
Dual 150mm railgun 1 x2, 200mm railgun 1, salvager 1.

Cap recharger 1 x2, 1mn civ afterburner.

Medium armour repairer 1 x 2, damage control 1.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#4 - 2017-01-02 14:40:41 UTC
Railguns are long range weapons, meaning if you click obrit at 500 youll miss everything. Just hit keep at range "your optimal" (mousover your gun to see it) and youll hit fine.

Secondly, guns arent that important on the vexor, only a tiny part of its damage comes from guns. Its mostly a drone ship.
Tiberius Greer
Corporation 1
Job's Done.
#5 - 2017-01-02 14:46:19 UTC
That's confusing as one railgun says optimal range 6000 metres, which I was at, and doing no damage. Also, why should I have all my guns the same?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-01-02 15:06:23 UTC
Ok, that fit has a lot wrong with it.

All the same guns so that they all have the same characteristics, all hit at the same range.

The 1MN civilian afterburner is frigate sized, won't do a thing for a cruiser.
No armour resist modules other than the DC.

Optimal is the max of the range at which your weapons will do full damage due to distance. It's not necessarily the distance you want to be at.
There's also tracking to take into account, and if you were orbiting at 6000 you likely wouldn't hit a thing due to the guns not tracking fast enough.

Vexor is a drone boat, not a gun boat. What drones are you using with it?

Honestly, I'd recommend switch to a destroyer and get your cruiser-related skills up, your support skills up, your gunnary skills up before you try flying a cruiser again.

Tiberius Greer
Corporation 1
Job's Done.
#7 - 2017-01-02 15:11:01 UTC
What's the DC?

And what tracking number should i be looking to have on my guns?

What destroyer do you recommend?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-01-02 16:42:41 UTC
Tiberius Greer wrote:
What's the DC?


Tiberius Greer wrote:
Dual 150mm railgun 1 x2, 200mm railgun 1, salvager 1.

Cap recharger 1 x2, 1mn civ afterburner.

Medium armour repairer 1 x 2, damage control 1.



Quote:
And what tracking number should i be looking to have on my guns?


It's less about what tracking value you want for the guns, and more about flying so that your guns can track your targets. Smaller targets are harder for large ships to hit, cruisers have more trouble hitting frigates than frigates or destroyers would

Improving tracking is about skills, you can fit a tracking computer or a tracking enhancer, fit the smaller medium guns
Tyrana McBitch
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-01-02 16:47:49 UTC
Drones.

The Vexor is a drone boat. Get your drones to level 5 asap. You will notice a massive difference then. Also don't mix turrets. If you are locked into turrets for now, try the Thorax. This is the turret boat.

Insane.

Chelian Dendrotoxin
Mamaroneck Trading Company
#10 - 2017-01-02 18:57:14 UTC
Tiberius Greer wrote:
What's the DC?

And what tracking number should i be looking to have on my guns?

What destroyer do you recommend?


Stick with your catalyst, it's a good boat. Standardizing your guns lets you plan better. You want to stay at your guns' optimal range, and if they are all the same, they all have the same optimal, so you can maximize. The DC is a Damage Control module, vital for Armor-Tanked ships (which Gallente are). Also, like was pointed out, you never want to use a civilian module. Their effect is minimal, and you can generally get a cheap normal module for almost nothing.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2017-01-02 21:18:25 UTC
Tiberius Greer wrote:
That's confusing as one railgun says optimal range 6000 metres, which I was at, and doing no damage. Also, why should I have all my guns the same?

optimal is just one factor of turret damage, it just means you can do max damage inside of 6000 meters.

if optimal was all that mattered people would just fly the biggest ships possible and completely destroy anything smaller. This is where tracking and signature radius come into play. Sig radius is important but for the most part is fixed and out of your control so I'm not going to go over it much, but basically is something that makes it harder to hit smaller targets. In general bigger guns track less, and long range guns track worse than short range.

the best way to hit smaller targets is to get them to fly in a straight line directly at or away from your ship. NPCs are pretty stupid so it is pretty easy to get them to do this. However it may be somewhat hard to do with only 6000m of optimal to play with.

another way is to increase your range, so the angle they fly at doesn't change as much, a close range orbit will complete a rotation much faster than a long range orbit.

when shooting a smaller target you likely want to pull range and have a low angle of attack so your guns hit. However when shooting a larger target you will want to get closer and keep a high angle of attack so their guns can't hit you as well.

Try using a mid range ammo and a 10mn afterburner, this should give you a comfortable engagement range to keep targets in or near optimal, and also allow you to control range and tracking with npc targets.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#12 - 2017-01-02 21:47:43 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Tiberius Greer wrote:
What's the DC?


Tiberius Greer wrote:
Dual 150mm railgun 1 x2, 200mm railgun 1, salvager 1.

Cap recharger 1 x2, 1mn civ afterburner.

Medium armour repairer 1 x 2, damage control 1.



Quote:
And what tracking number should i be looking to have on my guns?


It's less about what tracking value you want for the guns, and more about flying so that your guns can track your targets. Smaller targets are harder for large ships to hit, cruisers have more trouble hitting frigates than frigates or destroyers would

Improving tracking is about skills, you can fit a tracking computer or a tracking enhancer, fit the smaller medium guns


Abbreviation for Damage Control is still DCU though.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#13 - 2017-01-03 02:25:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Agrivar
I would go with Brave Newbie's fit for PvE Vexor:

[Vexor, VNE - Vexor Newbro Edition]

Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Prototype Energized Thermal Membrane I (this can be changed to one of the other resists if needed)
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Acolyte I x4 (these drones can also be changed to ones that do specific damage types)
Infiltrator I x3
Praetor I x3

On drone boats, guns are not necessary since almost all of your damage will be from your drones. You do not have to worry about your transversal in trying to hit the rats with each shot. This is how you fly it...

1) Warp into the site.
2) Upon stopping, launch your light combat drones (Acolyte, Hobgoblin, Warrior or Hornet) and start targeting the frigate rats first. You do this because if you launch your Medium Combat drones, the frigates will go after those and they will take damage.
3) Find something in the middle of the group of rats you can orbit around, preferably at 20-25 km. Turn on your afterburner.
4) Kill the frigates and destroyer rats. If you see your drones taking damage, return them to your drone bay and wait 10 seconds, then send them back out again.
5) Recall light combat drones and release your medium combat drones and take out the cruisers (and battlecruisers if present).
6) Repair your ship when needed. It is called 'pulsing'. You turn it on when you need it and turn it off when you don't. Doubt you will be 'cap stable' with the armor repairer running so you use it only when you need it. Try to stay above 50% armor if possible. Do not worry about your shields, they are not important.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#14 - 2017-01-03 08:53:57 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
....Vexor is a drone boat, not a gun boat...


This is completely wrong!

Open the "traits" tab of the Vexor and read the following:

Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:

+5% medium hybrid turret damage

+10% drone hp, damage and mining yield

If we compare that with another Gallente cruiser, the Thorax, we can see the following:

Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:

+5% hybrid turret damage

+7.5% medium hybrid turret damage

I know that reading is terrible for all the poor folks in lowsec and they put neuts on a turret boat because they can't fly the Curse but oh man, they so want to.

The Vexor is a medium hybrid turret and drone hybrid boat. The Curse is the one with the neut range and drain amount bonus.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Sara Starbuck
Adamantine Creations
#15 - 2017-01-03 14:05:14 UTC
About gun and ship sizes and turrets:

Using "too big" guns to shoot small targets gives hit penalty, so when you shoot frigates with your mediumsized guns of the cruiser its hard to hit if they are near you and moving sideways/orbiting. Cruiserguns are meant to shoot about 3 times bigger targets than frigates, and on battleships the difference is about 10times.

Remember those spacebattles where Stardestroyers try to shoot nearby X-wings and stuff, same principle.

You can check this Gunnery Guide from EVE-University wiki, and while you are at it, bookmark the wiki and look around theres TONS super useful info.
Sere O'Asis
Desert Oasis Investigations
#16 - 2017-01-03 22:18:54 UTC
Tiberius Greer wrote:
Also, why should I have all my guns the same?



To maximize damage. This confused me, too, when I started. But, if all your guns are matched, their total dps optimizes their effectiveness, meaning instead of it taking 3, 4, 5, or however many rounds of ammo to destroy your opposition, it takes far fewer rounds. When combined with high skills, you may be able to one shot your opponent.

I know some people argue for mixing guns, so they can target opponents at various distances, but this approach is ineffective in comparison.

You want to carry various types of ammo, and use the ammo type to account for range. For a simple example, antimatter for short range, iron for long range. There are a variety of ammo types to choose from. Take a selection out and experiment and see which ranges you prefer to shoot. Practice, it takes time to reload, and you will need to account for the reload time. Then, when you are comfortable with this aspect, you'll simply load the ammo type appropriate to the range your opponent is at. When running ded sites, I usually use at least 3 types, sometimes 4, but that is personal preference.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#17 - 2017-01-04 11:55:15 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
....Vexor is a drone boat, not a gun boat...


This is completely wrong!

Open the "traits" tab of the Vexor and read the following:

Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:

+5% medium hybrid turret damage

+10% drone hp, damage and mining yield

If we compare that with another Gallente cruiser, the Thorax, we can see the following:

Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:

+5% hybrid turret damage

+7.5% medium hybrid turret damage

I know that reading is terrible for all the poor folks in lowsec and they put neuts on a turret boat because they can't fly the Curse but oh man, they so want to.

The Vexor is a medium hybrid turret and drone hybrid boat. The Curse is the one with the neut range and drain amount bonus.



The vexor still is a drone boat, especially in pve (which this here is about). And since its a split weapon system ship with the balance being 3 to 2 in terms of dps in drones vs guns you usually go with drone dps mods, making it mostly a drone ship in pvp as well.

And especially in pve drones are mobile and fast and have range, you either are forced into railguns, which the hull doesnt support all that well, especially with low skills, or you are using blasters with their horrible range - which obviously isnt that great for pve.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#18 - 2017-01-04 15:55:23 UTC
I am not a fan of the fit posted above by Morgan Agrivar.
100mn AB on a cruiser for players with really low skills and running tutorials and perhaps the SOE epic arc and level 1 or level 2 missions. Much better to do with the cruiser class mod (10mn) AB more than enough speed boost and less cap drain.

2 drone link augmentors on a ship that does not need a drone link augmentor to begin with, the 20,000 meters base drones control range is more than enough for the stated purpose. Much better to have the additional damage it will serve them better.

Only one armor hardener for a new player with low skills is not really a good idea. Much better to over tank them to start and allow them to adjust as they get comfortable with the ship and how it responds.

I offer an alternative fit for consideration.
See notes in the fit below.

[Vexor, L2 Vex]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Mission specific hardener
Mission specific hardener - could be replaced with another drone damage amp if you are comfortable with the lower tank
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Tracking Computer I - helps the turrets track targets better, could be replaced with another cap recharger if desired

200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - Any guns could work here.
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - I prefer small to better track the frigate and destroyer ships in the lower level PvE content.
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - On teh Vex turrets are a secondary damge so I prefer the auto canon
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - because they do not require any cap.

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I - could be replaced with another cap control if you want.
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I - could be replaced with another cap control if you want.
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Mission specific light and medium drones.

To help with selection of drones and armor hardeners EvE Survival is an excellent source of information.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2017-01-04 16:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Tiberius Greer wrote:
That's confusing as one railgun says optimal range 6000 metres, which I was at, and doing no damage. Also, why should I have all my guns the same?


it makes controlling the fight easier and less confusing
if they are all the same, they use the same ammo, have the same ranges and the same tracking

doing no damage is most likely you were missing which is caused by not enough tracking and/or low skills
tracking is very range dependant
it is crucial at close ranges
and trivial at extreme ranges

low skills just takes a little time to fix
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#20 - 2017-01-05 04:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Agrivar
Donnachadh wrote:
I am not a fan of the fit posted above by Morgan Agrivar.
100mn AB on a cruiser for players with really low skills and running tutorials and perhaps the SOE epic arc and level 1 or level 2 missions. Much better to do with the cruiser class mod (10mn) AB more than enough speed boost and less cap drain.

2 drone link augmentors on a ship that does not need a drone link augmentor to begin with, the 20,000 meters base drones control range is more than enough for the stated purpose. Much better to have the additional damage it will serve them better.

Only one armor hardener for a new player with low skills is not really a good idea. Much better to over tank them to start and allow them to adjust as they get comfortable with the ship and how it responds.

I offer an alternative fit for consideration.
See notes in the fit below.

[Vexor, L2 Vex]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Mission specific hardener
Mission specific hardener - could be replaced with another drone damage amp if you are comfortable with the lower tank
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger
10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Tracking Computer I - helps the turrets track targets better, could be replaced with another cap recharger if desired

200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - Any guns could work here.
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - I prefer small to better track the frigate and destroyer ships in the lower level PvE content.
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - On teh Vex turrets are a secondary damge so I prefer the auto canon
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I - because they do not require any cap.

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I - could be replaced with another cap control if you want.
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I - could be replaced with another cap control if you want.
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Mission specific light and medium drones.

To help with selection of drones and armor hardeners EvE Survival is an excellent source of information.

I am now convinced that you and I will never really agree on anything, Donna. Big smile

If you HAVE to put guns on the Vexor (which you don't), I agree with the autocannons for cap issues...IF they are not an Alpha clone. If they are an Alpha clone (which the fit is set up for), they cannot use the Minmatar guns you put in your fit. The fit I posted is mostly for speed tanking more than armor tanking so two armor hardeners are not required since you will be going so fast they will not be hitting you. I put more into the drone damage since if you are speed tanking, you won't hit much with guns (hence why the fit I put up has none).

I do agree with the nano pump and nanobot accelerator if you are worried about your tank. I also agree you 'could' drop a DDA for a DCU if you really want but my fit doesn't really need it since you will be going too fast for them to hit you. Any damage you do end up tanking can be pulsed with the medium armor repairer.
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