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Dear CCP, could you do something about the small ancillary rep prices?

Author
Gravitas Deficit
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2017-01-02 13:12:53 UTC
CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December). So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage.
Quartz Jori
Jori's Fullerites and Salvage Inc.
#22 - 2017-01-02 13:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Quartz Jori
Gravitas Deficit wrote:
CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December). So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage.

If it's such a big problem that you can't stand to pilot an armor tanked frigate then fly something else. It's simple as. CCP does not interfere in market prices except in the case of PLEX or other limited availability items, which they manipulate through occasional sales/handouts.

Either that or go and actually find some BPCs to make your own.
Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2017-01-02 13:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
It's not just "Supply and Demand".

Input costs influence the supply side of that equation. So does the possibility of "Economic Rents" due to limited access to key inputs (notably BPs).

CCP sets the raw material requirements and the BP cost (or drop rate for some categories of BP ) for stuff like this - both obviously influence price via supply. Clearly CCP could influence the final price by changing these.

If they've made a genuine mistake they have no obligation to correct it, or even to share their insight - but then they deserve questions like the OP's. Of course if they see a mistake they want to correct they have a "legacy problem" - an overnight change that affected price would affect the value of existing inventory. Perhaps their answer to questions like this will always be "it's too much hassle to deal with it".
Loreen Parker
Doomheim
#24 - 2017-01-02 13:37:06 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Loreen Parker wrote:
Trevor Dalech wrote:
Loreen Parker wrote:


So where am i supposed to find them?



I found most of my supply years ago, back when I was still exploring in high sec. That may have changed over time, but after the hacking changes a couple of years back (no more rats) most explorers now rush straight to low/null/WH it seems as the rewards there are better. This may explain the lack of supply.


But it would not explain why only the small AAR is affected.

Im sure that some major market manipulation is going on.


But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it.



Urm, no.

EVE is about player action not crying to devs and having the Devs fix your problem. Yes market manipulation happens, although usually for higher value items, because market manipulation only works for a short time. If someone were to come in and buy all the SAAR off the market and resell them for 100m each, it would work, for a few days maybe, then traders and industry that monitor the market would suddenly start cranking out SAAR and flooding the market until the prices fall again.

Seriously, if you intend to play eve, then you need to drop the attitude that CCP needs to fix your problems. Eve is a game for problem solvers. If you see a problem, the concept of finding your own solution should excite you. Because that is what Eve is about.



Im fine thanx.

but if ccp did something to the droprate then they created the problem in the first place. So they should fix it.

Nobody is able to suddenly crank out SAAR because nobody friggin finds any.

Quartz Jori
Jori's Fullerites and Salvage Inc.
#25 - 2017-01-02 13:40:50 UTC
Loreen Parker wrote:


Im fine thanx.

but if ccp did something to the droprate then they created the problem in the first place. So they should fix it.

Nobody is able to suddenly crank out SAAR because nobody friggin finds any.


CCP's last alteration increased the drop rate, so they've actually taken steps to make the module more accessible already.
Loreen Parker
Doomheim
#26 - 2017-01-02 14:05:41 UTC
Quartz Jori wrote:
Loreen Parker wrote:


Im fine thanx.

but if ccp did something to the droprate then they created the problem in the first place. So they should fix it.

Nobody is able to suddenly crank out SAAR because nobody friggin finds any.


CCP's last alteration increased the drop rate, so they've actually taken steps to make the module more accessible already.


yes, we will see. if they drop more now the price should come down in the next months.

but as i said i actively hunting for them, even more so since this anouncement and i found none.
mkint
#27 - 2017-01-02 15:03:16 UTC
"CCP doesn't set the prices."

That completely fails to understand basic economics. CCP has 100% control over supply, and it's supply vs demand that determines price. If CCP wanted to, they could put the BP in the rookie ship package. They choose not to. CCP 100% determines the prices of everything, they just have to do so indirectly, and can't control (though they can influence) how quickly the market responds.

Whether or not the price should come down, I'm not going to take a position, but the nonsense gibberish about how CCP somehow doesn't have access to their own game's economy needs to stop.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2017-01-02 15:29:36 UTC
Loreen Parker wrote:

But whatever the reason is, it hurts T1 frig pvp and ccp should do something about it.

CCP give us a sandbox and allows us to do what we want with it.

I will tell you that if CCP is to take any further action on this it will likely be to nerf the module. That is how CCP does things. If too many people are using one specific ship or module they nerf it until it's use fall more in line with similar items.

So you might want to watch yourself before you start begging for CCP to do something as you might get what you are asking for, which is to nerf the thing so hard it's usage drops to a small fraction of what it is now.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2017-01-02 15:50:43 UTC
Gravitas Deficit wrote:
CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December).

I don't see how you can say that "CCP agrees that there is a problem" just because they increased the DR. For all that you know that could have been an experiment to see what happened to use and pricing before making another move.

When CCP introduced these modules a few years back they intentionally made them BPCs that drop instead of BPOs that you buy off of the market like everything else. One of the stated reasons was so that they could control supply and use that as a balancing factor.

So I don't see how them following the original plan and using drop rates as a balancing factor is them admitting there is a problem. If anything that would indicate everything is working well.
Gravitas Deficit wrote:

So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage.

The module must be very very powerful or you would not want it so much. So if the module is more powerful and more expensive that is not disadvantaging the fit. That is bringing balance to the situation.

I could make the same argument about officer mods and that they are too high in price and CCP must do something about the DR to make prices "reasonable" so that it doesn't hurt PvP. My argument would be no more valid than yours.

So yes you do have a "bad attitude" in the sense that it is one that does not work well in this game or more to the point flies in the face of very core concepts of this game and therefore is a poor choice of frame to come from.

I have no experience with the SAAR personally but from the sounds of the whinning about their price, to me, it sounds like you most certainly are looking for faction module power at standard T1 module pricing, or to fit the context here Rolls Royce performance at Chevy pricing.

Just as a note to how CCP typically acts:
I am fairly certain that the office coffee maker at CCP HQ uses player tears to brew their morning get-up-and-go. CCP loves the tears of whinny, self entitled cry babies. So I say cry more, the if the devs read it they are likely to nerf the crap out of the SAARs like I stated in a previous post.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#30 - 2017-01-02 15:53:02 UTC
Gravitas Deficit wrote:
CCP agrees that there is a problem that must be fixed (as seen from their unsuccessful intervention in December). So spare me this talk about wanting rolls royces, having a bad attitude, etc. This is hurting armor tanked frigate pvp. There is no reason why certain fits should be at such a disadvantage.


But why should we spare you the talk about wanting the Rolls Royce fitting? Economics is an essential aspect of fitting your ship. The market is under no obligation to provide you with the parts you need to fit the ship that you want. So if the modules are in short supply, or are too expensive, then you need to adapt. It is as simple as that.

You need to recognise that many of those items you are looking for are either manufactured by industrialists, or gathered by salvagers, and they have no obligation to provide you with the parts you need to fit your combat ship. Especially considering the likelihood that that ship could be used against them. Have you not considered that the high price could be a market based PvP instigated by industrial players?... So why should CPP lift a finger to stop it?

You either need to fork out more ISK, or Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Either way you have not provided a compelling argument for anyone to do anything about it.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#31 - 2017-01-02 16:14:45 UTC
Loreen Parker wrote:
but as i said i actively hunting for them, even more so since this anouncement and i found none.

Never went out to look for these but I do know that some BPC are more likely to drop from a specific NPC race. Moving around and trying your luck in all four major factions space would be a wise thing to do in this case.

Drop rates are often misinterpreted or outright misunderstood. As an example if an item has a drop rate of 1 in 50 that does not mean that you will get one for every 50 items that you find. As an example a corp mate has been running Sanshas sites recently and has had several armor reps drop, I have been running Sanshas sites in the same area for more than a year and never had an armor rep drop.

There seems to be quite the supply of these as well, at the time I write this and using EvE Central as the source there are more than 700 of them for sale at Jita 4/4 Assembly Plant station alone and likely there are more than 1,500 of them available in the markets of EvE as a whole. Yes I counted Jita and stopped at 700, the rest of EvE I am guessing at base on the numbers listed. So it is obvious that supply has very little to do with the price of this specific module, could it be that those who are selling them understand their worth to those of you who frigate PvP and are simply profiting from your wants / needs?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2017-01-02 16:33:04 UTC
Personally I would like to understand where exactly are the sources of the BPCs ...

I was a passionate explorer for about 2 years, running relic sites in Sansha space, and the majority before the first data site balance. I've checked, and have found zero SAAR BPCs, but still have a ton of worthless shield and medium BPCs. Maybe we are looking in the wrong places? Is there a racial flavor like with the famous intact armor plates?

I'm my own NPC alt.

Gravitas Deficit
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2017-01-02 17:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gravitas Deficit
Donnachadh wrote:

There seems to be quite the supply of these as well, at the time I write this and using EvE Central as the source there are more than 700 of them for sale at Jita 4/4 Assembly Plant station alone and likely there are more than 1,500 of them available in the markets of EvE as a whole. Yes I counted Jita and stopped at 700, the rest of EvE I am guessing at base on the numbers listed. So it is obvious that supply has very little to do with the price of this specific module, could it be that those who are selling them understand their worth to those of you who frigate PvP and are simply profiting from your wants / needs?


The number of SAARs traded per day in The Forge alone is about 1600. So this is very little supply! It could be a sign that something isn't quite right.

The vehemence with which some posters smear me for inquiring into this price anomaly is also unusual. The EVE community is normally friendly.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2017-01-02 18:10:16 UTC
Gravitas Deficit wrote:

The vehemence with which some posters smear me for inquiring into this price anomaly is also unusual. The EVE community is normally friendly.

The Eve community is very helpful with players looking for advice on how to improve their playstyle. If you came in here and were looking for an affordable fit that did not use SAARs because of the current high price or were looking for help in figuring out where they are more likely to drop or even were looking for understanding as to why they are so expensive, then you would have likely gotten plenty of help.

The Eve community has always been brutal to self-entitled cry babies who are looking for CCP to change mechanics to suit them. Eve has always been and "adapt or die" kind of game. Figuring out more effective was to do things is a huge part of this game. If you continue to refuse to adapt and overcome but instead what to whine and insist CCP dumb the game down for you then you will continue to be berated here.

It would even have been ok if you were asking about drop rates and usage here. The problem started with the title of your post which was "Dear CCP, could you do something...." That is where you went wrong and until that attitude changes the hostile attitude from posters like me won't change either.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#35 - 2017-01-02 22:39:29 UTC
Gravitas Deficit wrote:


The number of SAARs traded per day in The Forge alone is about 1600. So this is very little supply! It could be a sign that something isn't quite right.

The vehemence with which some posters smear me for inquiring into this price anomaly is also unusual. The EVE community is normally friendly.



1600 per day isn't very little supply unless the sell orders are empty. If there are more than enough sell orders to handle the daily throughput, then supply exceeds demand.

Trust me, you aren't being smeared with anything approaching vehemence. We are being nice because this is NQ&A. Post this thread in General Discussion and we'll tell you what we really think.

First of all, you didn't inquire into this price anomaly. The op title is a call for change. The body of the op does not make a rational pro vs. con argument. It just points out a disparity. There is nothing in the language of the op in the nature of an inquiry.

Because you don't seem to understand what an inquiry is, I'll make an example:

Quote:
Thread title: Disparity between SAAR and SASB

Body:"At 6-7 mil, they can easily make up half the cost of a well fitted T1 frigate. A small ancillary shield booster costs 34k. Why is there a difference?


This is an inquiry.

What you posted is a whine.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#36 - 2017-01-03 01:53:27 UTC
The SAAR is awesome, which is why it is selling really high.

The SASB sucks and isn't worth the effort to put on a T1 PvP frigate.

That might be why...

Also surprised you haven't complained about the price of Nanite Repair Paste while you were at it...
mkint
#37 - 2017-01-03 02:02:30 UTC
Given the content of the OP, this thread should be in F&I, not NCQ&A.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Mala Zvitorepka
Karthen-Woight
#38 - 2017-01-03 13:22:36 UTC
Midslots are generally worth more than lows on frigs.
Plus SAAR is great and SASB isn't.
Plus you can fit MASB on many frigs which is way better than SASB.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2017-01-03 14:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
The reason why there is a such a difference between the SAAR and SASB is that Shield modules tend to be fitted one size up for the ship. So a well fit shield tanked Frigate typically fits a MASB, Medium Shield Extender or Medium Shield Booster. The small versions of these modules are absolutely useless. This is a result of the fitting requirements of the relevant modules and possibly where CCP went wrong.

So a better comparison would be the SAAR against the MASB, the latter is about 1.5M in Jita, but can be cheaper elsewhere. Still a bit of a difference, but not as extreme and reflects the fact that Active Armor tanked frigates are more common than Active Shield tanked frigates.

If CCP need to fix anything, they should revamp their shield lineup to give the small modules the stats of the mediums, mediums the stats of the large, and the large better stats (with higher fitting costs of course). Because at the moment, you have Shield Frigates with mediums mods, Shield Cruiser/BCs with large mods and Shield BS just don't have a decent local shield option.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#40 - 2017-01-03 16:11:55 UTC
OP, I propose a deal for you. I will contract you a small ancillary repairer if you copy and paste this post with the exact same title and make it a post in the general discussion subforum of the EvE forums. I will give you a million isk bonus if you leave it up intact until it goes off the first page. What say you?


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