EVE General Discussion

No, it's not an accurate assessment, and I've been over this enough times now that you should know that, but please, continue trying to use ignorance of what I've said thus far as an argument.

Oh please.

Every opinion I've ever read from anyone on this forum is based on the impact it would have (to whatever degree) on their own personal playstyle., or enjoyment of the game.

That's not to say that people cannot adapt to those changes, of course they can, and will. However, any discussion such as this is based almost entirely on the subjective view of what is desirable to the individual, and by extension all those individuals who share a similar enjoyment.

I don't lie about my view. I don't try (too often I hope) to state that my view is the only "true" view, that would be arrogant in the extreme. It is simply my opinion based on my subjective enjoyment of the game, and how I feel that enjoyment may be impacted by changes.

Remiel and Torin:

You have both ignored and failed to respond to my substantive arguments.

They still stand unchallenged.

You cannot expect further rebuttal from me, nor am I required to deliver such, tlll you have addressed them.

If you do not, I will consider them tabled, conceded, and continue pursuing my position from that basis.

(Edit: Saw Torins itemized rebuttal to one post. There are however several outstanding without response pending, including the one he emailed me as being "offtopic". Will reply within 24hrs to this specific post, as a gesture of good faith, but I reciprocally expect response to the remainder).

Your rebuttal amounted to a claim of "red herring", which was false, not justified or explained.
And that only to one fraction of a "TLDR" post, rather than the several preceding substantive posts to which it refers.

If that is the best you can do, it is you who will lose once I start to steamroll you properly.
Im not even getting started yet. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt for now.

Accusations of ignorance and autism are not serving you well.
You are already losing your cool and driving your own topic into the ground.
I advised you to take a break, regroup, and come back stronger, but this was the result.

As you see fit my friend.

I disagree that you arguments are substantive. They have, for the most part, been based on what you would like to see the world become. They are your opinion, nothing more nothing less. Just as my arguments are my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

You have stated that, in your opinion, the game would benefit from a more interactive involvement between players and NPC's. I disagree with you. You have not, as far as I can see, addressed any concerns as to the specific effects this may have on specific playstyles. I may be guilty of this myself in fact.

We are in disagreement, I doubt that on this matter we will ever see eye to eye as this disagreement strikes at the heart of what we each consider to be the core of what makes Eve great. And whether it will ultimately be improved or otherwise by changes such as are being discussed.

Peace.

No.

Your position has been what you dont want it to be, as opposed to what it currently is.

This in addition to your attempt to ignore a refuting post by me, by email, stating you dont want to discuss exactly that, which you nonetheless have.

Not to mention several other posts which stand unanswered.



Irrelevant, incessant consistent ad-hominem, and still no rebuttals.

If that is all you have, if this is your best. I seriously over-estimated you.

You advocated NPCs should be "dull and boring".
Dull and boring is anathema to ANY game.
Its a ludicrous proposition. Why would you want ANYTHING that is dull and boring in a game?

Especially as weighed against the seminal issue in this discussion of NPC dynamics being NOT dull and boring, but rather a part of the reactionary, interactive virtual sandbox of EVE.

Your position is hypocritical, contrary and inane.
You are eroding your own argument, to its destruction.

Neither is yours, of mine.
This is not an argument.


No, you demonstrably have not. I have posted extensive, itemised, numbered arguments to which you have not responded.
It is you that has used a few meaningless words, usually in the form of argumentative fallacies, littered and rife with false ad-hominem which I care about as much as a duck does about the rain.

You are losing this. Badly. It seems you cant, or wont, deal with arguments put to you.
Im not wounded in the least. Not even scratched. Im not even yet getting started.

You yourself are running your own thread into the ground, on your own.

Your previous posts are not a refutation of what I have subsequently posted, nor relevant.

In your mind, you think you have addressed them, but you have not.

Your previous posts are argued from a singular, specific, individual preference, opinion and benefit.

Mine refute the mandate of that. Your personal preference does not over-ride what is good for the game.

I have read every post in this thread, many times over. I am aware of your position. I am not ignorant of it.

But your arguments SIMPLY ARE NOT RELEVANT to the change at hand.

Just because it butthurts you, and you want NPCs to be "dull and boring" is not a justification for your arguments as weighed against the well-being and development of the game.

YOU are the one that is ignorant of what is being said to you in consequence of your OP.
YOU are the one that is not understanding what this impetus incurs.

I have repeatedly extended an olive branch indicating I understand the premise behind your position, though I disagree with it.
I did so as to provide your thread an opportunity to discuss the issues, regardless of side.
But you chose to respond with ignoring posts/arguments, and instead responding with unmitigated ad-hominem, insults and irrelevancy.

Dont be surprised that I now return that gesture. If this is how you want it to go down, fine. This is how it will go down.

Please provide any supporting evidence that would lend credence to you viewpoint that Eve either requires, or would benefit from an increased level of interaction between players and NPC's within the setting of a PvP engagement scenario.

Until then every argument you've made is subjective. Your analogies are deliberately biased ( the claiming that I want a barren wasteland was particularly distasteful) towards your personal point of view.

A point of view I disagree with. This is not an argument than can be "won". It is a discussion about mechanics and the impact they have on playstyles.
There are no winners or losers in a discussion such as this, there are simply differing opinions.

Your opinion is no more valid than mine, just as mine is no more valid than yours.

My position will change as I see fit, depending on how my perception of the issue is broadened by the discussion at hand.

For now though, going back to one of my earliest posts..

I do not give a damn about NPC's, their lore, their history, or their interactions with each other and/ or players who voluntarily take part in NPC-focused activities. They are fluff. The backdrop to the stage on which players act out the drama. I do not care for animatronics in my theater. I do not care for NPC's in my PvP. This is my opinion. Agree or disagree as you see fit.

I do care about the interactions between NPC's and players in a PvP engagement scenario, as this is at the very heart of Eve, and anything that would discourage, dissuade or otherwise interfere with active player interactions, particularly in Low sec, is something I believe to be counter to the basic principles of EvE PvP. It is not needed, and in my case, it is not desired.

I do not see how I could be more clear on this matter.

But hey, I don't actually expect anyone to care about my opinion. They have their own to worry about.

Fellow capsuleers, come bear witness!

Here we have a thread of PvP players whining about PvE!

Usually we have dozens of PvE players whining about PvP, but this one is different (and yet the same)!

If you argue with them, they will insult you.
If you present rational arguments, they will ignore them.
(Again, the same).

The nasty NPCs are hurting these bold PvPers... blowing up their ships and stuffs.
Its unfair!

The baddy PvE NPCs are ruining PvP!!!1 :(((

No. I dont think so.

If there is one thing more pathetic in and contrary to EVE than carebears whining about PvP intervention;
its PvP whining about PvE NPC intervention.

Adapt and HTFU.

A dynamic virtual environment in EVE is immeasurably better than a "dull and boring" one.
This in no way changes the essentially PvP nature of EVE.
It means the EVE sandbox itself behaves and reacts according to/as a consequence of player actions.

---

PS: If you ignore my effort in considered, numbered arguments, I will do the same.
If you resort to insults when I have extended olive branches and tried to establish a mutual basis, the situation is clear.
You made your choice. So be it. Now its war.