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PIE transporting Slaves within the Republic
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Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#61 - 2012-01-19 20:12:54 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.


And they wouldn't have been there if you hadn't taken them. We had no knowledge of them being on board until after your fleets destruction. However, had you left them where they were, they would have been safer. Not 'safe', because they are living in an occupied system. But 'safer' than they were in space. Where people shoot each other.

For someone so determined to 'save the slaves', you seem to be very good at putting them in even worse conditions. I suppose you're proud of yourself?

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2012-01-19 20:17:49 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.


Rhetorical question : which one is the most sickening of the two ?

- The drivers that smashed that group of people thrown on the highway ?

or

- The ones who pushed that group of people on the highway ?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#63 - 2012-01-19 21:02:40 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.


A better life being beaten, starved, and constantly told they're worthless unless they see things your way.

I've experienced that, and I'll fight tooth-and-nail to make sure nobody else ever will.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#64 - 2012-01-19 21:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
They where denyed a better life outside the republic... Sadly most are dead now. Civilians cut down by forces sword to protect them... Sickening.


A better life being beaten, starved, and constantly told they're worthless unless they see things your way.

I've experienced that, and I'll fight tooth-and-nail to make sure nobody else ever will.


Most Minmatars in the Empire are well treated.

Even if you don't accept that we employ Minmatars for their own good, then simple logic dictates that a starving Minmatar is a useless Minmatar.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#65 - 2012-01-19 21:23:16 UTC
Oh gods, the "but but but we treat them well!" argument. IGS is worse than the worst holo channel with the re-runs.

For the love of all good gods and ancestors, treat your own kind as well as you like, but stop bothering the rest of the galaxy. That simple step would solve all your problems.
Reann Amelana
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-01-19 21:24:36 UTC
Our fleet stated the fact that we were evacuating from planets shortly before we started returning to Empire space when members of the militia were present. These militia would have been able to communicate that there were civilians present to their fleets. Rather than this they slaughtered those who wanted a better a life back in the Empire. Was it merely the fact you would rather try paint us as the wrongdoers and protect the illusion that all the Minmatar suffer under the protection of the Empire?

Stop trying to turn the fact that the slaughter was done by the Republic, in an operation that had been broadcast locally to minimise the chance of civilian casualties.
Reann Amelana
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-01-19 21:25:39 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Oh gods, the "but but but we treat them well!" argument. IGS is worse than the worst holo channel with the re-runs.

For the love of all good gods and ancestors, treat your own kind as well as you like, but stop bothering the rest of the galaxy. That simple step would solve all your problems.


Turn to God and serve him, then we shall.
Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-01-19 22:18:23 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kaleigh, they had slaves. In a Sigil. In lowsec. Republic...lowsec.


And the TLF just couldn't help themselves but open fire on the convoy. You know what I mean Rek, the Matari Bloodlust(TM) practically FORCED them to do it. So they can't be blamed at all for the deaths of the emancipated. It's all PIE's fault... Poor widdle freedom fighters, daddy will protect you from the bad PIE men.

So either the TLF is made up of a bunch of savages with no self-control who like the pretty lights when they shoot things or they shot first and asked questions second and are now, yet again, trying to play the Blameless Matari Victim by deflecting blame onto PIE to save face. Which is it, Jaiga?

Either way, it was Minmtar munitions that killed those civilians. Split hairs as much as you please, those are the facts.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#69 - 2012-01-19 22:33:08 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kaleigh, they had slaves. In a Sigil. In lowsec. Republic...lowsec.


And the TLF just couldn't help themselves but open fire on the convoy. You know what I mean Rek, the Matari Bloodlust(TM) practically FORCED them to do it. So they can't be blamed at all for the deaths of the emancipated. It's all PIE's fault... Poor widdle freedom fighters, daddy will protect you from the bad PIE men.

So either the TLF is made up of a bunch of savages with no self-control who like the pretty lights when they shoot things or they shot first and asked questions second and are now, yet again, trying to play the Blameless Matari Victim by deflecting blame onto PIE to save face. Which is it, Jaiga?

Either way, it was Minmtar munitions that killed those civilians. Split hairs as much as you please, those are the facts.


I'll just point out the irony here -- you complain about being shot at when performing an illegal act.

PIE transported slaves in Republic space, which several times has been pointed out is a violation of Republic law. Yes, people died, and that's a tragedy. It was entirely avoidable from the outset, however, by the simple expedient of obeying our laws while in our space.

After all, you'd ask the same of us, wouldn't you?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#70 - 2012-01-19 22:44:12 UTC
Reann Amelana wrote:
Our fleet stated the fact that we were evacuating from planets shortly before we started returning to Empire space when members of the militia were present. These militia would have been able to communicate that there were civilians present to their fleets. Rather than this they slaughtered those who wanted a better a life back in the Empire. Was it merely the fact you would rather try paint us as the wrongdoers and protect the illusion that all the Minmatar suffer under the protection of the Empire?

Stop trying to turn the fact that the slaughter was done by the Republic, in an operation that had been broadcast locally to minimise the chance of civilian casualties.


You could have covered yourself of fresh meat in the middle of a slaver hounds pack that the result would have been the same, then.

Either :

- Your apparent lack of the slighest sense of reason is hard to believe.
- You had a political agenda by doing this, hoping this would happen.

By the way while we are at it, it is not really difficult to make this happen with all the militias. Any TLF member could definitly do the same thing in an imperial system under Republic occupancy. I can assure you that at the slighest possibility of their killboard stats increasing, half of the Amarr militia would jump on the occasion like vultures, whatever the content of the transporting ship is.

Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kaleigh, they had slaves. In a Sigil. In lowsec. Republic...lowsec.


And the TLF just couldn't help themselves but open fire on the convoy. You know what I mean Rek, the Matari Bloodlust(TM) practically FORCED them to do it. So they can't be blamed at all for the deaths of the emancipated. It's all PIE's fault... Poor widdle freedom fighters, daddy will protect you from the bad PIE men.

So either the TLF is made up of a bunch of savages with no self-control who like the pretty lights when they shoot things or they shot first and asked questions second and are now, yet again, trying to play the Blameless Matari Victim by deflecting blame onto PIE to save face. Which is it, Jaiga?

Either way, it was Minmtar munitions that killed those civilians. Split hairs as much as you please, those are the facts.


I'll just point out the irony here -- you complain about being shot at when performing an illegal act.

PIE transported slaves in Republic space, which several times has been pointed out is a violation of Republic law. Yes, people died, and that's a tragedy. It was entirely avoidable from the outset, however, by the simple expedient of obeying our laws while in our space.

After all, you'd ask the same of us, wouldn't you?


Technically, I have heard that Auga and Dal are under imperial occupancy.
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#71 - 2012-01-19 22:51:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Karmilla Strife
If baseliners want to travel, they should take the InterBus. If PIE, or any organization wants to help, they could pay the fare.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#72 - 2012-01-19 23:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Lyn Farel wrote:

Technically, I have heard that Auga and Dal are under imperial occupancy.


There are also those that would argue that Dal and Auga are under Republic occupancy, but that's really beside the point I'm trying to make.

Respect earned is respect deserved. if PIE wants us to accept and respect their legal system, they need to show ours the same respect.

(Besides which, I'm hard-pressed to comprehend what PIE was doing flying slaves into a war zone in the first place. Frankly, that's not the brightest of moves...)

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#73 - 2012-01-20 00:06:30 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Either way, it was Minmtar munitions that killed those civilians. Split hairs as much as you please, those are the facts.


Technically, it was Amarrian munitions that landed the final blow and sentenced them to death.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-01-20 00:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vallek Arkonnis
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
PIE transported former slaves freed by declaration of the Empress (i.e. normal citizens) in Republic space, which several times has been pointed out is in perfect harmony with Republic law.


Fixed that for you.

For all we know, the TLF knew there were emancipated slaves aboard the Sigil and would rather silence the witnesses under the guise of destroying an Amarrian slaving fleet than let the truth about the Republic's hypocrisy regarding the treatment of their repatriated kin be exposed.

Edit: What exactly required the Sigil's destruction? If only there was a way to scan cargoholds to see what was inside and a way to keep a ship from moving and warping...
Jhaelee de'Auvrie
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#75 - 2012-01-20 01:00:37 UTC
The only thing that is completely clear is that a great number of lives were tragically wasted.

At this point, it is not possible to verify intentions on either of the parties involved. Record keeping on most of the inhabitant worlds along the border between the Empire and the Republic are rarely adequate and thusly will be of no use in this matter.

In the future, it may be best for those proceeding under more humanitarian actions to be more transparent with their intent; and for those looking to be saviors rather than butchers to disable and contain unarmed cargo vessels rather than simply destroy them.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#76 - 2012-01-20 01:05:09 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:


For all we know, the TLF knew there were emancipated slaves aboard the Sigil and would rather silence the witnesses under the guise of destroying an Amarrian slaving fleet than let the truth about the Republic's hypocrisy regarding the treatment of their repatriated kin be exposed.


You were the one carrying them through a battlefield, Arkonnis. I daresay that the real hypocrisy in this matter is yours, for claiming to care for your slaves' well-being and then flying them into an active warzone.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Laerise
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#77 - 2012-01-20 07:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Laerise
To believe that any amarrian in their right mind would stage a multiple hour operation into a warzone with close to a dozen pilots just to procure some slaves for labour or sale is idiotic.

Remind me again why we would not have just sent that very Sigil up to Amarr to just buy some.
Slaves bought from certified market traders stock are certainly more healthy and clean and require less fattening up than those unfortunates we picked up in Dal and Auga.

The bottom line is: PIE Inc.'s humanitarian efforts were disrupted. Many minmatar died to a cowardly attack by their opressors.
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#78 - 2012-01-20 07:38:50 UTC
PIE got caught violating not only Republic law but also Imperial law (or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?) and then they had the audacity to blame everyone but themselves for the subsequent death and destruction. Typical. As Captain Sadik said, "color me surprised".

P.S. Grreck thanks for the compliment but, you might want to fly to Yulai and ask for a refresher course in the law. Even though you may not feel the Republic is legitimate, CONCORD, the Federation, State and your own Empire see things differently.
Laerise
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#79 - 2012-01-20 07:42:56 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
PIE got caught violating not only Republic law but also Imperial law (or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?) and then they had the audacity to blame everyone but themselves for the subsequent death and destruction. Typical. As Captain Sadik said, "color me surprised".

P.S. Grreck thanks for the compliment but, you might want to fly to Yulai and ask for a refresher course in the law. Even though you may not feel the Republic is legitimate, CONCORD, the Federation, State and your own Empire see things differently.


If you spin any quicker I'm sure you'll acchieve take off in just about a minute.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#80 - 2012-01-20 08:25:09 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
PIE got caught violating not only Republic law but also Imperial law (or has Heideran's prohibition on slave raiding been suddenly suspended?) and then they had the audacity to blame everyone but themselves for the subsequent death and destruction. Typical. As Captain Sadik said, "color me surprised".

P.S. Grreck thanks for the compliment but, you might want to fly to Yulai and ask for a refresher course in the law. Even though you may not feel the Republic is legitimate, CONCORD, the Federation, State and your own Empire see things differently.


I'm not aware of any law that prohibits the collection of volunteers from planets under Amarrian control.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori