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Finding out which category of bug i have is to hard

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Milo Fago
Rocket Surgery Incorporated
#1 - 2016-12-26 18:34:53 UTC
Which category should i report this in if its in the wrong category ccp helps you as far to send you here https://support.eveonline.com/ when you try to reply it says error and deletes your comment to them (good troll ccp, i just added 1 month extra of not going omega for that)
It seems like its just easier to deal with all the suspected botters bugs an mishaps of eve then it is to file support tickets i missed at least 4 trades dealing with this hassle.

I have a suspicion that there is a market botter, the advice the help chan dev gave me, sell something to him then you can report him, right like i can afford/have the 10 million isk hit to help them to remove a bot,

Why is there not a function to report the market order it self if that order is suspected to be placed by a bot.

Further more, if i fill a help ticket in the wrong section, pls direct me to the exact right place or give me some guidance by saying which button i click on here https://support.eveonline.com/, instead of giving me the autistic msg saying i should contact the game masters to which there is no direct button on the redirected page https://support.eveonline.com/

Nor does it explains if i have to make a new ticket or dig true the gazillion subcategory of https://support.eveonline.com

I bet the person redirected me never even been on https://support.eveonline.com him/her self.


Absolute madness is growing in me ever moment i am confronted with this,, this ,,,, what ever this is...


i feel like i am in that old Astrixs and Obelix movie trying to request form 36-a-7

Pls make the support report system more obvious clearer and transparent and far less less vague and encumbering, i want a big button saying Report Bots, i recon it merrits its own fragging category.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-12-26 18:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuttomenui II
Try 'Game Play Support' , then in the Category field choose 'Rules & Policy' and then 'Exploits' and see how that works out.

BTW usually when your reporting someone the petition will be accepted and closed due to privacy reasons, and they will look into it further but they wont keep you in on the loop about it.
Demonspawn 666
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-12-26 21:35:18 UTC
You have a Category 2 bug-irate

The other categories being:

Category 1- ragequit
Category 2 - Irate
Category 3 - mildly vexed
Category 4 -CCP there is a screw loose in my captains quarters, please fix.

It is to be noted that a category 2 bug can develop into a category 1, it is advised to take deep breaths and go blow something up if you feel that your bug may develop into a 1.

The Dirty Rejects are recruiting!
Come play with me...... I like being played with!

TDR Recruitment
Milo Fago
Rocket Surgery Incorporated
#4 - 2016-12-26 23:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Milo Fago
Demonspawn 666 wrote:
You have a Category 2 bug-irate

The other categories being:

Category 1- ragequit
Category 2 - Irate
Category 3 - mildly vexed
Category 4 -CCP there is a screw loose in my captains quarters, please fix.

It is to be noted that a category 2 bug can develop into a category 1, it is advised to take deep breaths and go blow something up if you feel that your bug may develop into a 1.

I was thinking that it could have been exactly that, and i didn't blow anything up in the past days either.
So in order to reconcile myself i started a investigation and indeed this fragger would at random times of the day 0,01isk the carp out of me and others with in 10 secs of the changing a single order. I will take some more screenshots as evidence at random intervals of the day to proof to every one and mainly myself that i am not experiencing any delusions that could gateway me in to category 1.

I will post these delusions,,eug this evidence in the "game play support" / "rules and policy" but would "eula and terms of service" not be more appropriate then "exploit"?
Demonspawn 666
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-12-26 23:55:38 UTC
Glad to hear you're not a category 1!

Seriously... Blow something up, it helps!

The Dirty Rejects are recruiting!
Come play with me...... I like being played with!

TDR Recruitment
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-12-27 00:14:41 UTC
Milo Fago wrote:
Demonspawn 666 wrote:
You have a Category 2 bug-irate

The other categories being:

Category 1- ragequit
Category 2 - Irate
Category 3 - mildly vexed
Category 4 -CCP there is a screw loose in my captains quarters, please fix.

It is to be noted that a category 2 bug can develop into a category 1, it is advised to take deep breaths and go blow something up if you feel that your bug may develop into a 1.

I was thinking that it could have been exactly that, and i didn't blow anything up in the past days either.
So in order to reconcile myself i started a investigation and indeed this fragger would at random times of the day 0,01isk the carp out of me and others with in 10 secs of the changing a single order. I will take some more screenshots as evidence at random intervals of the day to proof to every one and mainly myself that i am not experiencing any delusions that could gateway me in to category 1.

I will post these delusions,,eug this evidence in the "game play support" / "rules and policy" but would "eula and terms of service" not be more appropriate then "exploit"?



As someone who will .01 isk people at "random times" during the day... that alone is zero proof that it is a botter. if i'm not doing anything else and am actively watching my market orders, I can often spend a good hour or more outbidding people before I get bored.

as for doing it "within 10 seconds of you changing your order"

there is a 5 minute cooldown, that cooldown is the same for both you and him, so if you change your order, and he notices it, and changes his 10 seconds later (a reasonable reaction time for a person imo, and really damn slow for any bot) then his cooldown to change his order again will be up 10 seconds after yours is. resulting in him always being able to update immediately after you and keeping himself on top of the pile.

and if it is happening on multiple orders, if your in a trade hub remember that there are a LOT of people with active orders, and a LOT of people .01 isking each other.

Welcome to market pvp. This is also why it can be helpful to split your orders into two. that way you can always have 1 order that is ready to be updated and jump to the top of the pile.
Milo Fago
Rocket Surgery Incorporated
#7 - 2016-12-27 00:59:54 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Milo Fago wrote:
Demonspawn 666 wrote:
You have a Category 2 bug-irate

The other categories being:

Category 1- ragequit
Category 2 - Irate
Category 3 - mildly vexed
Category 4 -CCP there is a screw loose in my captains quarters, please fix.

It is to be noted that a category 2 bug can develop into a category 1, it is advised to take deep breaths and go blow something up if you feel that your bug may develop into a 1.

I was thinking that it could have been exactly that, and i didn't blow anything up in the past days either.
So in order to reconcile myself i started a investigation and indeed this fragger would at random times of the day 0,01isk the carp out of me and others with in 10 secs of the changing a single order. I will take some more screenshots as evidence at random intervals of the day to proof to every one and mainly myself that i am not experiencing any delusions that could gateway me in to category 1.

I will post these delusions,,eug this evidence in the "game play support" / "rules and policy" but would "eula and terms of service" not be more appropriate then "exploit"?



As someone who will .01 isk people at "random times" during the day... that alone is zero proof that it is a botter. if i'm not doing anything else and am actively watching my market orders, I can often spend a good hour or more outbidding people before I get bored.

as for doing it "within 10 seconds of you changing your order"

there is a 5 minute cooldown, that cooldown is the same for both you and him, so if you change your order, and he notices it, and changes his 10 seconds later (a reasonable reaction time for a person imo, and really damn slow for any bot) then his cooldown to change his order again will be up 10 seconds after yours is. resulting in him always being able to update immediately after you and keeping himself on top of the pile.

and if it is happening on multiple orders, if your in a trade hub remember that there are a LOT of people with active orders, and a LOT of people .01 isking each other.

Welcome to market pvp. This is also why it can be helpful to split your orders into two. that way you can always have 1 order that is ready to be updated and jump to the top of the pile.


Yes that would be true if i didn't waited 2 hours and let the market "cooldown" before changing the order after which the order from that station changed again with in 10 secs.

And Pls do explain how you can see your orders updated every 10 secs and find out how 1 random item in the 20 or so got changed (i thought about that maybe he is just looking at one order in the list and i change that one or some one else changes one of his , so he redoes the whole list), but in order to have this performance this guy is clicking true all his orders for 5 hour straight as for me it doesn't updates at all unless i open and close a window or switch tabs, this might be a bug on my side as my wallet amount didnt changed yesterday when i had my wallet open and bought some stuff either.

For me the market doesnt auto updates real time with other ppl placing orders and it certainly doesnt do this fast enough for me to modify all my orders.

As for the bots i looked in to that and they have build in interval randomizes that you can set parameters for.
The bot then cycles true the orders at intervals as well
it even is able to log on to eve and start updating the orders.

I posted the report with screenshots that i have taken true out the day , it would still be nice to have a option in the market to report a bot,,, i would suggest a 2 part function were you have to report it twice with 24 hours(thinking time) in between to prevent irrational complaints about actual human competitors in game.
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-27 01:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Milo Fago wrote:
Yes that would be true if i didn't waited 2 hours and let the market "cooldown" before changing the order after which the order from that station changed again with in 10 secs.


There is no such thing. The new eden market moves 24/7 (downtime excluded)


I will usually sit with an eve window open on my other monitor and do other things on the main screen. Its not much effort to refresh my orders seemly 'all day'. There is always someone making/buying/selling a particular item. Sometimes I stay at the top for hours, other times I get beat out fast. No need to close the market window to refresh, use the market quickbar or right click from your orders tab in the wallet. (Item -> view market) Easy.

The key is having multiple orders so even when they do 0.01 you, there are orders ready to be changed while the other person(s) have to do the same. Iv seen so many people cry 'market bot' when in reality they are probably competing in such a crowded item. You think you're the only one who wants to never undock and make billions of isk?

And while im not sure the legitimacy of any kind of automated/scripted API pulling, you can basically pull market data and tell (out of game) when you have been beaten out price wise. Hell this data is even available on places like eve-central and eve-marketdata.

If its truly truly a bot, go ahead and report it. But I get the feeling its just you being pwnt by market pvpers.
Milo Fago
Rocket Surgery Incorporated
#9 - 2016-12-27 04:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Milo Fago
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:
[quote=Milo Fago] use the market quickbar or right click from your orders tab in the wallet. (Item -> view market) Easy. .

Well sure but that doesn explains why he is able to know to mod his order if i only tweek one of the ones that he has out and that with in 10 secs, now i am still not excluding the coincidence of a fellow neurotic simply competing.

As for the pwnt you dont know if i have my order on top or that if i just get lucky to get the sale every time in the few minutes that mine is on top :D nor do you know that you can simply double click on the orders to pull up the market order;) altho for me this is sometimes laggy especially in jita were it often takes 20 secs to load a order, kinda hard to modify with in 10 secs with that going on.

i do like the tip of having the market quick bar open and look at the orders that way.

As for the more then one order, as alpha i dont have that luxury i dont feel like it is the meaning of the game to have multiple accounts doing the same thing to circumvent the cooldown timer (not to be mistaken with the term letting the market cooldown which stands for backing of to pretend you logged off and stopped station pvp`ing for the day so the other guy doesnt checks his orders so often ^^).
As for the pvp`ERs part, its only one.

Also do you do cycle true all your orders for 7 hours straight with out missing a beat with all the outstanding orders that you have?
i tried just modding just one low isk return order and it still got noticed with in 10 secs.

It could be a freak coincidence and a highly active player but it would be nice to have some form of system so you could report suspicion, now i said thinking time but a strike system so not to overload ccp with the emo rage against strong market opponents would be better, with maybe a filter for "strong market pvpers" that get added after reviewing ones(which could be a loophole to get a bot in to that filter, maybe a scalable amount of strikes needed after each review ) so it should still have its own category in the report system.

As for the bots, they are able to passively check read the game client data with out the need of the 3 party data(assome of them advertise), then apply the macro to the sales window to modify the orders and the only way to detect them is true players noticing the inhuman activity or screening the high activity clients, which can be avoided by not running the bot constantly and the programs out there can log on and off automatically.

It is definitely enough to get paranoia from :)
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-12-27 06:07:00 UTC
Milo Fago wrote:
especially in jita


This right here is exactly why you are getting .01 isked all day every day. jita is the single busiest trade hub in the game, with hundreds of people playing the market 24/7. all it takes is for 2 or 3 other people to be competing with you on price and the competetion is going to be stiff, especially if they are checking even half regularly.

also, its jita, the market NEVER cools down there. try trading in a quieter hub if you don't like the constant .01 isk wars.
Milo Fago
Rocket Surgery Incorporated
#11 - 2016-12-27 06:13:46 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Milo Fago wrote:
especially in jita


This right here is exactly why you are getting .01 isked all day every day. jita is the single busiest trade hub in the game, with hundreds of people playing the market 24/7. all it takes is for 2 or 3 other people to be competing with you on price and the competetion is going to be stiff, especially if they are checking even half regularly.

also, its jita, the market NEVER cools down there. try trading in a quieter hub if you don't like the constant .01 isk wars.


No im not suspecting this bot to be in jita , i stated that its one order who 0,01 isk me and others so its not because i cant reconize who 0,01 isk me out of a dozen orders from the same location , its one toon posting orders from one station , not in jita. orThe forge
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-12-27 06:32:45 UTC
Milo Fago wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Milo Fago wrote:
especially in jita


This right here is exactly why you are getting .01 isked all day every day. jita is the single busiest trade hub in the game, with hundreds of people playing the market 24/7. all it takes is for 2 or 3 other people to be competing with you on price and the competetion is going to be stiff, especially if they are checking even half regularly.

also, its jita, the market NEVER cools down there. try trading in a quieter hub if you don't like the constant .01 isk wars.


No im not suspecting this bot to be in jita , i stated that its one order who 0,01 isk me and others so its not because i cant reconize who 0,01 isk me out of a dozen orders from the same location , its one toon posting orders from one station , not in jita. orThe forge


you say they are doing it on only that one order out of dozens... its also very possible that its a newbie trader who doesn't have a whole bunch of orders to babysit, If I'm babysitting one or two orders it takes very little effort for me to just refresh them every 5 minutes and bump myself to the top... in fact i'm doing that as I type this and managing to babysit about 10 different orders that way because I want them filled before I leave town tomorrow.

I still have yet to see anything that you have said that implies it is a bot vs just competing with a particularly attentive trader.

honestly depending on their order size, you might be better off just letting them get theirs filled.

I will often do that if I have say 100+ units up for buy and I keep getting .01 isked by someone who's only looking to buy 1 or 2. i'll just stop and let them fill their order to get them out of the way... hell i've even filled their order myself just to get rid of them.
Herbert G Wells
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-12-27 08:38:46 UTC
So OP can sit around and play the 0.01ISK game all day, and he isn't a bot. But if anyone else does the exact same thing, they ARE a bot?

Don't waste the GM's time with this nonsense for god sake. They have actual problems to fix long before they should be wasting time trying to help you win at market PvP.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-12-27 09:14:14 UTC
Second above, don't bother with supposed bots, adapt your trading strategy ...

... focus on a max dozen goods, put them in quickbar, and cycle through with keyboard
... make 2-3 stacks instead of one big stack
... know the traded volume, keep a single stack reasonable or rather small (buy/sell in multiple rounds), big stacks scare traders and force aggressive outbids
... analyze your competition and trade patterns, and play the 0.01ISK game only if profitable
... regularly update your list of trade goods

I'm my own NPC alt.
voetius
Grundrisse
#15 - 2016-12-27 17:09:26 UTC
Herbert G Wells wrote:
So OP can sit around and play the 0.01ISK game all day, and he isn't a bot. But if anyone else does the exact same thing, they ARE a bot?

Don't waste the GM's time with this nonsense for god sake. They have actual problems to fix long before they should be wasting time trying to help you win at market PvP.


^ this is the problem that the OP fails to address.

Also, a note to the OP, it can be very a quick process for a trader to cycle through all their orders several times a minute. All they need to do is add all their frequently traded items to their market quickbar, check that they have order highlighting on, then click through all their items. Rinse and repeat, endlessly :)
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-12-27 19:25:14 UTC
Milo Fago wrote:

the advice the help chan dev gave me, sell something to him then you can report him, right like i can afford/have the 10 million isk hit to help them to remove a bot,


Can you elaborate how exactly selling something to the person is supposed to help prove they are a bot?
Keno Skir
#17 - 2016-12-27 19:42:42 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
Milo Fago wrote:

the advice the help chan dev gave me, sell something to him then you can report him, right like i can afford/have the 10 million isk hit to help them to remove a bot,


Can you elaborate how exactly selling something to the person is supposed to help prove they are a bot?


To find out players name, not prove anything.

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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2016-12-27 19:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
Ok A little Clarification here.

What you are looking for is a Support Ticket, not a Bug Report. Support tickets are used when there is an issue with a player such as Rule Violations, Account and Payment Issues, Issues with ISD/GM etc. Bug reports are technical reports used by DEVs and ISD Bug Hunters to find errors in code, issues with Game Mechanics. They are two separate systems. Bug Reports are general handled by ISD Bug Hunters as such they do not have the ability to deal with Rule Violations, Reimbursements and Account Issues.

The issue you are having ( a player you suspect of botting) is a Support Ticket issue. You would file it under Game Play support -> Rules and Policys -> Exploits You would then state your issues in the Comments section on the issue you are having I.E. You believe a player is botting on the market. Include details such as the player name, what behavior leads you to believe that the player is botting.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Milo Fago
Rocket Surgery Incorporated
#19 - 2016-12-28 01:38:55 UTC
voetius wrote:
Herbert G Wells wrote:

Don't waste the GM's time with this nonsense for god sake.


^ this is the problem that the OP fails to address.


I did address that.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-12-28 02:34:06 UTC
It might help to narrow down whether your bug is a virus or bacteria. You want to space those out between bacteria and virus tests otherwise you end up having to give like nine vials of blood in one visit and that just leaves you feeling drained.

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