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Aiming for specific salvage
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Deckel
Island Paradise
#1 - 2016-12-23 19:03:44 UTC
I was looking over the many different kinds of salvage which have so many different demand and supply ratios, leading to some being very valuable, and some having hardly any value.

While the marketeer can do their best to work with the demand of the salvage market there is very little the salvager can do target towards these demands, asside from focusing on the types of ships to target, which is usually not really an option.

My thought was 'What if the dedicated Salvager could 'more or less' target the type of salvage that they are aiming for. No they won't be able to ensure that they get all of the same high value stuff, but it will allow them to change some of the ratios of the type of salvage that they obtain.
Here is how it will work:
Salvager II modules will be capable of equipping various different charges or scripts that will either favor certain groups of salvage, or exclude certain groups of salvage. These groupings could likely be based upon either the general icon picture or descriptive purpose of the material (Circuits, Structural, Defensive, Power, Communications). By aiming for specific types of salvage they may earn more by harvesting less through its sales or to allow them to target specific salvage that they need. Along with this it will also provide extra incentive and reason for training up to Salvage V because of the extra utility.

Some of you might be thinking "Not another charge", and while charges or equipable crystals are the easiest way I can think to do this, I am open to discussing other methods of implementing this (such as faction or dead-space modules that implement similar functionality)
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2016-12-23 19:55:38 UTC
Only if I get to pick what loot I get off faction spawns and off deadspace overseers.

Or do you not get why your idea would be bad for the market?
Deckel
Island Paradise
#3 - 2016-12-23 20:43:34 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Only if I get to pick what loot I get off faction spawns and off deadspace overseers.

Or do you not get why your idea would be bad for the market?



I really don't think it would be bad for market because each grouping of salvage would naturally have their low-end and high-end salvage. You might decrease the amount of salvage obtained from the other groups but you wouldn't be getting more in total, and might even be getting less, and even if the ratios for certain loot increases, that also will likely increase the chance of getting nothing at all. All this really does is give the salvagers a chance to even out price spikes in the market. besides there will always be many more T1 salvagers than T2
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#4 - 2016-12-23 21:32:12 UTC
No cherrypicking!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-12-24 07:39:16 UTC
You have some degree of choice. Blood Raiders rats have a different salvage drop table than Angel Cartel rats, for instance. Broken shield emitters drop more from Angel rats, while armor plates drop more from Blood rats.

But I agree there should be more of a way to choose your salvage, much like we can choose our minerals when we mine ore. The expensive salvage should be that which has a low base drop chance or is in high demand, not just stuff that is getting mined less because the drop table it's in is sub-par. But I wouldn't make the salvagers choose the salvage. It should be all about selecting the targets to salvage. Different individual ship types could have different salvage tables, for instance a Merlin could have a different salvage table from a Kestrel, whether they are Guristas, Mercenaries, or player ships. Perhaps there could also be a module that can scan a wreck to get a rough estimate of what salvage it can potentially offer--this information would help players write guides to explain where to get what salvage.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2016-12-24 10:39:40 UTC
The distribution of salvage is deliberate. This is why we have markets. Salvagers sell to aggregators who sell to rig builders. You do have some selectivity - each faction in the game drops different types (or ratios) of salvage.
Cade Windstalker
#7 - 2016-12-24 15:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Specific types of salvage come off specific rat types. For example Angel Cartel and Rogue Drones are the only factions that drop Alloyed Tritanium Bars and Guristas never drop Alloyed Tritanium Bars or Armor Plates but are one of the only sources of several other salvage items. See chruker for the full list of who drops what: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/salvaging.php

Other than that the thing setting the market price of these items is the rarity of the drop, the demand for the items they make, and the number of those rats being killed.

So yeah, the thing you're asking for is essentially already in the game and is determined by the type of rat, not the class of ship. Other than that you're basically asking to skew the loot tables towards rarer items, which would of course always be better. Since there's only really one or two valuable items per faction of rat you would generally always set your "preference" towards those, making this a generally broken mechanic.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2016-12-25 13:50:23 UTC
That site is very outdated. I salvaged a Sansha Sanctum last night an collected 45 armor plates.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2016-12-25 21:17:28 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
That site is very outdated. I salvaged a Sansha Sanctum last night an collected 45 armor plates.


Nope, site is fine, I miss-spoke. I'll edit my post to correct the error, it should have been "Angels and Rogue Drones are the only ones who drop Alloyed Tritanium Bars". Sanshas are in fact marked as dropping Armor Plates on that chart.

Woops!
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2016-12-26 04:03:42 UTC
It happens. Merry Christmas!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-12-26 07:12:31 UTC
I knew Armor plates dropped elsewhere. All armor-tanking factions should salvage for armor plates. This should include Gallente and Amarr faction as well as Gallente and Amarr player ships, even though those aren't on the list.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#12 - 2016-12-27 00:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Bad idea.

The only thing that maintains value on salvage is the RNG of actually getting the stuff, mostly because salvage is one of the easiest things to acquire in the game (the only easier things being passively mined or PI derived resources) Every NPC and player shipwreck can be salvaged (as well as upwell structure wreckage) and most combat vessels have fitting space for at least one utility high to mount a salvager, which makes salvaging the least effort intensive resource gathering activity in the game. Most combat ships can become ad-hoc salvaging ships just by bolting on a module with no additional risk and trivial fitting costs.

What keeps dedicated salvaging fits viable is that salvaging requires scale to roll the dice for the valuable stuff. If you could laser-focus on one type, the entire balance paradigm for salvaging would be thrown off. if I know I'd get those armor plated I needed from every wreck, it is suddenly worth my time to bolt a salvager on to my site running ship because I'm never wasting my time on those cycles getting stuff that isn't that useful.

Anybody who has ever decided to stop by a mission hub with a probe launcher will tell you there's absolutely no shortage of wrecks in EVE.

If it were possible to directly target wreckage for specific salvage, it would be a huge nerf to the already ailing exploration profession. Explorers had data sites knocked in to the dirt a while back, and relic site salvage is the bulk of value from hacking those cans. Making salvaging a direct path to specific salvage would simply make it far too efficient compared to the random drops from a hacked site.

It would also be a pretty drastic devaluation in popular salvage overall, making salvaging as an activity by degrees substantially less rewarding as rig producers would be almost immune from market forces to get supplies at sufficient scale to produce as they much more easily self produce only that salvage they need for their products, effectively leaving the buying market.
Cade Windstalker
#13 - 2016-12-27 03:30:35 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
It happens. Merry Christmas!


Yup! Especially when I start editing something and get distracted halfway through Blink

Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year elitatwo! Big smile

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I knew Armor plates dropped elsewhere. All armor-tanking factions should salvage for armor plates. This should include Gallente and Amarr faction as well as Gallente and Amarr player ships, even though those aren't on the list.


Yup, I believe the pattern is that the Navy ships follow the space of the pirates they fight, so Gallente player and Navy ships drop the same salvage as Serpentis pirates. Not sure about other factions, it may all just follow the sensor strength pattern.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-12-27 03:51:38 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Yup, I believe the pattern is that the Navy ships follow the space of the pirates they fight, so Gallente player and Navy ships drop the same salvage as Serpentis pirates. Not sure about other factions, it may all just follow the sensor strength pattern.

That would make sense. Gallente and Serpentis ship design philosophy are nearly identical, as are Minmatar and Angel Cartel, Amarr and Blood Raiders, or Caldari and Guristas. Sansha and Mordu's Legion are thus outliers.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2016-12-27 18:01:04 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Yup, I believe the pattern is that the Navy ships follow the space of the pirates they fight, so Gallente player and Navy ships drop the same salvage as Serpentis pirates. Not sure about other factions, it may all just follow the sensor strength pattern.

That would make sense. Gallente and Serpentis ship design philosophy are nearly identical, as are Minmatar and Angel Cartel, Amarr and Blood Raiders, or Caldari and Guristas. Sansha and Mordu's Legion are thus outliers.


The Sansha actually have the same salvage profile as the Blood Raiders, which is part of why I say it follows the racial salvage profile.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-12-27 18:06:22 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
The Sansha actually have the same salvage profile as the Blood Raiders, which is part of why I say it follows the racial salvage profile.

Which doesn't make sense given that they shield tank, but I did notice that on the database. They're the only shield-tankers I know of who will drop armor plates but won't drop malfunctioning shield emitters.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."