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Skill time gates are killing us alphas
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#141 - 2016-12-24 08:18:01 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


EVE for you then is just NO!

alpha can't compete with an omega,,,,, wrong!

alpha accounts are gimped,,,,, wrong!

training times only get longer with experience and higher tiered skills, and you think 6 months is long hahahahaha.

Roll
Akis Talanas
Doomheim
#142 - 2016-12-24 13:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Akis Talanas
Helix Coils wrote:
Knitram Relik wrote:
You're already getting more than what you're paying for. You're welcome.


This sort of attitude is not encouraging anyone to stick around. Want alpha's to stick around? Throw us a bone.



You alrerady HAVE a bone.....you can play for free....

Those are excactly the posts i suspected when the alphas go live...."We want MORE because we don't pay".....

Typical ftp player behaviour.....
Rhalina Sedai
Doomheim
#143 - 2016-12-24 23:30:15 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
Knitram Relik wrote:
You're already getting more than what you're paying for. You're welcome.


This sort of attitude is not encouraging anyone to stick around. Want alpha's to stick around? Throw us a bone.




Alpha's get to participate in the biggest online sci/fi experiment of its kind on the planet. For free! You need us to throw you a bone as well?

FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2016-12-24 23:32:56 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Why is this thread 6 pages deep?

I demand better content.

You don't ask for content. You make it!

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2016-12-25 01:13:44 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
[quote=mkint][quote=Jenn aSide][quote=mkint]
... analysis that's got the right parts, but comes to wrong conclusion...

The people who run active SP farms and don't mind putting in the extra work for it, will continue to run their farms the same way they always have.


Let's re-do the math taking into account there being *3* alpha alts per account. Now we have 15 million SP that can be extracted per PLEX, albeit every 18 months.

Now add into that being able to run an infinite number of alpha farms, pipelined. Create a dozen a week over the next 18 months, go absolutely nuts!

The point I'm making is the SP rate limit doesn't limit actual potential abusers of the system, but only the "little guys" and real potential players. And yes, long term I absolutely expect injected SP to be lower cost than earned SP, which might be interesting in terms of revenue received.
Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#146 - 2016-12-25 01:29:24 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
[quote=Helix Coils]


Oh man. I agree with you on this one, especially in tone. You sure you're a new player? (I'm not heh)


He's not. He outed himself as a bittervet by quoting eve offline subscription numbers. Only bittervets do that.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#147 - 2016-12-25 01:38:38 UTC
Clair Bear wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
[quote=mkint][quote=Jenn aSide][quote=mkint]
... analysis that's got the right parts, but comes to wrong conclusion...

The people who run active SP farms and don't mind putting in the extra work for it, will continue to run their farms the same way they always have.


Let's re-do the math taking into account there being *3* alpha alts per account. Now we have 15 million SP that can be extracted per PLEX, albeit every 18 months.

Now add into that being able to run an infinite number of alpha farms, pipelined. Create a dozen a week over the next 18 months, go absolutely nuts!

The point I'm making is the SP rate limit doesn't limit actual potential abusers of the system, but only the "little guys" and real potential players. And yes, long term I absolutely expect injected SP to be lower cost than earned SP, which might be interesting in terms of revenue received.

Skill extractors require 5.5m sp and I think Alpha characters hit like 5.1m sp, so no to Alpha toon sp farming.
Clair Bear
Perkone
Caldari State
#148 - 2016-12-25 01:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Clair Bear
Morgan Agrivar wrote:


Skill extractors require 5.5m sp and I think Alpha characters hit like 5.1m sp, so no to Alpha toon sp farming.


Read Bjorn Tyrson's article again. You can extract alpha skills, but only as an Omega account. There are 3 alphas per account, for a grand total of 15.3 million extractable SPs, for the low low price of being Omega every 18 months.

So to recap, 15 million SP for the price of PLEX + extractors. Existing skill farms run at a shade under 2 mil sp for PLEX + extractors.

As a bonus the alpha farm doesn't need +5s, just +3s. Way lower barrier to entry.

Actually, it's even better than that. The omega month will provide an additional 1.5 million or so SP.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#149 - 2016-12-25 02:53:07 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Why is this thread 6 pages deep?

I demand better content.

You don't ask for content. You make it!


I don't know, Rhoska, this thread's been at least somewhat entertaining to me, even if only for the moment.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Herbert G Wells
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2016-12-25 08:41:56 UTC
Clair Bear wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:


Skill extractors require 5.5m sp and I think Alpha characters hit like 5.1m sp, so no to Alpha toon sp farming.


Read Bjorn Tyrson's article again. You can extract alpha skills, but only as an Omega account. There are 3 alphas per account, for a grand total of 15.3 million extractable SPs, for the low low price of being Omega every 18 months.

So to recap, 15 million SP for the price of PLEX + extractors. Existing skill farms run at a shade under 2 mil sp for PLEX + extractors.

As a bonus the alpha farm doesn't need +5s, just +3s. Way lower barrier to entry.

Actually, it's even better than that. The omega month will provide an additional 1.5 million or so SP.


Incorrect. You can extract to a minimum of 5.5mil sp. That means the account has to have a minimum of 10.6 million skillpoints if you wish to extract 5.1 million of them.
James Shackleton Caird
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2016-12-25 09:27:15 UTC
Clair Bear wrote:

Read Bjorn Tyrson's article again. You can extract alpha skills, but only as an Omega account. There are 3 alphas per account, for a grand total of 15.3 million extractable SPs, for the low low price of being Omega every 18 months.

So to recap, 15 million SP for the price of PLEX + extractors. Existing skill farms run at a shade under 2 mil sp for PLEX + extractors.

As a bonus the alpha farm doesn't need +5s, just +3s. Way lower barrier to entry.

Actually, it's even better than that. The omega month will provide an additional 1.5 million or so SP.


I just reread the description, and I might be misunderstanding something.

It seems to rely on two key points.

1. That an alpha toon can have an omega-length skill queue if it is set up before reverting to alpha.

2. That an alpha toon can train omega-only skills, probided they were queued up before reverting to alpha.

I don't know if either of those two points are true right now. Even if they are, they scream exploit to me, and would be very easy to fix just by having the skill queue update when status changes to alpha.

Or it is saying that you first need to have a toon with 5.5 million SP in omega only skills and 0 SP in alpha skills, which I think would take 3-4 months as an omega to do with a new toon, and then you can train the 5 mill in alpha skills over 6-7 months, extract them, and repeat? Which also screams exploit, and is also easily fixed by making those alpha-only skills non-extractable.


So I'm either completely misunderstanding the descriptions, or the ability to use an exploit to get 15 million SP extracted by going omega one month in 18 won't be sustainable.
Josef Djugashvilis
#152 - 2016-12-25 11:55:12 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
Knitram Relik wrote:
You're already getting more than what you're paying for. You're welcome.


This sort of attitude is not encouraging anyone to stick around. Want alpha's to stick around? Throw us a bone.



Your parents credit card is just the bone you need.

When folk get free stuff and still complain, it is a classic example of an 'entitlement' mentality.

This is not a signature.
Punctator
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#153 - 2016-12-25 13:05:35 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


you know... when i started this game first 3 month i learned learning - skills to gain SP - and paying subscription...
next i started to gain combat skills and paying subscription...
then i undock and i died miserebly - and i paying subscription...
more start skills, more sp, no learning skill, skill boosters, skill injectors and you dont need to pay for it.
you dont even know how easy gameplay you have now Smile compered to old players