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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8221 - 2016-12-22 15:39:11 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if youve checked my killboard, you'll have also seen daichi used to nullbear, WITH bad guys in local...just sayin Blink


So did I... Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8222 - 2016-12-23 11:19:23 UTC
Don't sweat it. Everyone loses ships eventually :-).

Human error is the premier content creator in null-sec.

Someone has to make a mistake for pvp to happen.

Afk cloaky camping destroys the window for making mistakes in null-sec.

Anyone undocked will lose a ship eventually in a null-sec system. I am operating with a 3% rule.

IF you are undocked, AND active hostiles able and willing to kill you enter system, THEN you will lose your ship 3% of the time.

It follows that for more pvp content, you want more people undocked and more active hostiles on roams.

Afk cloaky camping lowers undocking frequencies and lowers number of active hostiles on roams.

It really is the ultimate in pvp cockblocking. Keeping players docked up and safe, instead of undocked hunting or undocked hunted.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8223 - 2016-12-23 12:14:10 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Don't sweat it. Everyone loses ships eventually :-).

Human error is the premier content creator in null-sec.

Someone has to make a mistake for pvp to happen.

Afk cloaky camping destroys the window for making mistakes in null-sec.

Anyone undocked will lose a ship eventually in a null-sec system. I am operating with a 3% rule.

IF you are undocked, AND active hostiles able and willing to kill you enter system, THEN you will lose your ship 3% of the time.

It follows that for more pvp content, you want more people undocked and more active hostiles on roams.

Afk cloaky camping lowers undocking frequencies and lowers number of active hostiles on roams.

It really is the ultimate in pvp cockblocking. Keeping players docked up and safe, instead of undocked hunting or undocked hunted.



Spent 6 years ratting away in goons and never lost a ratting boat. Using that rule I will lose 1 ratting ship Sometime in the next few centuries.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8224 - 2016-12-23 15:08:24 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Don't sweat it. Everyone loses ships eventually :-).

Human error is the premier content creator in null-sec.

Someone has to make a mistake for pvp to happen.


Agreed 100%, which is why we need to remove local. It protects people who make those mistakes. Cloaking gives you a way to fight against them.

Why do you keep disagreeing with yourself?
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8225 - 2016-12-23 16:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
Jerghul wrote:
Don't sweat it. Everyone loses ships eventually :-).

Human error is the premier content creator in null-sec.

Someone has to make a mistake for pvp to happen.

Afk cloaky camping destroys the window for making mistakes in null-sec.

Anyone undocked will lose a ship eventually in a null-sec system. I am operating with a 3% rule.

IF you are undocked, AND active hostiles able and willing to kill you enter system, THEN you will lose your ship 3% of the time.

It follows that for more pvp content, you want more people undocked and more active hostiles on roams.

Afk cloaky camping lowers undocking frequencies and lowers number of active hostiles on roams.

It really is the ultimate in pvp cockblocking. Keeping players docked up and safe, instead of undocked hunting or undocked hunted.



AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.

Wormholer for life.
TEMPO Secheh
Doomheim
#8226 - 2016-12-24 14:05:03 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:

AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.


As it is now, 1 afk guy in a NPC corp camping a system for 1 week doesn't lead to any kind of content, because there's nothing you can do about it.

So, yeah. Give me some tools to play with him and I'd call it "content". Until then, it's just a broken one-sided mechanic.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8227 - 2016-12-24 14:28:38 UTC
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:

AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.


As it is now, 1 afk guy in a NPC corp camping a system for 1 week doesn't lead to any kind of content, because there's nothing you can do about it.

So, yeah. Give me some tools to play with him and I'd call it "content". Until then, it's just a broken one-sided mechanic.



You choose to do nothing. He's not making you do it.

Wormholer for life.
TEMPO Secheh
Doomheim
#8228 - 2016-12-24 15:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: TEMPO Secheh
Wander Prian wrote:
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:

AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.


As it is now, 1 afk guy in a NPC corp camping a system for 1 week doesn't lead to any kind of content, because there's nothing you can do about it.

So, yeah. Give me some tools to play with him and I'd call it "content". Until then, it's just a broken one-sided mechanic.



You choose to do nothing. He's not making you do it.


I choose not to wait for him to decloak at 0 with a point and a cyno on me. My options so far are:

- Baiting him. But we're talking about someone afk for days/weeks... he may not even be in front of his computer during the entire baiting op.

- Carrying on with business as usual, giving him a free hotdrop card. He choses when and how.

- Leaving the system.

There's nothing I can do.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8229 - 2016-12-24 15:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:

AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.


As it is now, 1 afk guy in a NPC corp camping a system for 1 week doesn't lead to any kind of content, because there's nothing you can do about it.

So, yeah. Give me some tools to play with him and I'd call it "content". Until then, it's just a broken one-sided mechanic.



You choose to do nothing. He's not making you do it.


I choose not to wait for him to decloak at 0 with a point and a cyno on me. My options so far are:

- Baiting him. But we're talking about someone afk for days/weeks... he may not even be in front of his computer during the entire baiting op.

- Carrying on with business as usual, giving him a free hotdrop card. He choses when and how.

- Leaving the system.

There's nothing I can do.


One of my AG contacts wants to try null sec, I say do it, he joins an alliance in Provi, gets there and finds two AFK cloaky campers in his system, one that is blanket camping 5 systems, both of which drop 6 BLOP's from two different groups, my friend decides to go mining in a Venture, he can make more in hisec, great content isn't it...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8230 - 2016-12-24 15:52:29 UTC
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:

AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.


As it is now, 1 afk guy in a NPC corp camping a system for 1 week doesn't lead to any kind of content, because there's nothing you can do about it.

So, yeah. Give me some tools to play with him and I'd call it "content". Until then, it's just a broken one-sided mechanic.



You choose to do nothing. He's not making you do it.


I choose not to wait for him to decloak at 0 with a point and a cyno on me. My options so far are:

- Baiting him. But we're talking about someone afk for days/weeks... he may not even be in front of his computer during the entire baiting op.

- Carrying on with business as usual, giving him a free hotdrop card. He choses when and how.

- Leaving the system.

There's nothing I can do.


Do you not rat in a defence fleet?
TEMPO Secheh
Doomheim
#8231 - 2016-12-24 17:10:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:

AFK-cloaking is a activity and it can lead to content. The problem is that it's not the type of content you want. You want to cherry-pick what content you take part in, usually the one with the least danger of your ship exploding, unless you can get SRP for it.

You want content to happen when it suits you. You don't want to have it forced you.


As it is now, 1 afk guy in a NPC corp camping a system for 1 week doesn't lead to any kind of content, because there's nothing you can do about it.

So, yeah. Give me some tools to play with him and I'd call it "content". Until then, it's just a broken one-sided mechanic.



You choose to do nothing. He's not making you do it.


I choose not to wait for him to decloak at 0 with a point and a cyno on me. My options so far are:

- Baiting him. But we're talking about someone afk for days/weeks... he may not even be in front of his computer during the entire baiting op.

- Carrying on with business as usual, giving him a free hotdrop card. He choses when and how.

- Leaving the system.

There's nothing I can do.


Do you not rat in a defence fleet?


The point is that none of my options add any risk to the afk cloaky campers, while we're asked to take all the risks because one person may or may not be even playing.
A8ina
Red.Leaf's Tavern
#8232 - 2016-12-24 17:57:05 UTC
After all these years still this issue has not been resolved AFK Cloaky makes me nervous Roll

Give the ability to players to turn off there global communications transponder of there Ship in neutral space since they cane use encrypted Communications via Fleet & Alliance Command channels . Big smile

CCP Please explain what is the purpose of it being active ,

An individual can actively scan a solar system and also get a lots of information only by using the Map which is very powerful tool

Sincerely Αθηνα



Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8233 - 2016-12-24 21:49:36 UTC
A8ina
That is ultimately my feeling. Local intel is not great. A proper tool providing nuanced real time information over a number of systems with an interface that easily integrates with normal spacefaring activity would fit the ticket.

A powerful tool for individual players far better than the current local and alliance intel channels.

In effect integrating a number of 3rd party tools directly into the game.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8234 - 2016-12-25 04:58:00 UTC
Quote:

The point is that none of my options add any risk to the afk cloaky campers, while we're asked to take all the risks because one person may or may not be even playing.


And while they are afk they can do literally nothing. I don't see you complaining about the risk free ratting that happens because of local chat or complaining about being 100% safe inside your station or 100% safe ESS.
Cade Windstalker
#8235 - 2016-12-25 06:13:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:

The point is that none of my options add any risk to the afk cloaky campers, while we're asked to take all the risks because one person may or may not be even playing.


And while they are afk they can do literally nothing. I don't see you complaining about the risk free ratting that happens because of local chat or complaining about being 100% safe inside your station or 100% safe ESS.


The difference between being AFK in a station and AFK while cloaked is that a station is a choke point and can be relatively easily monitored or moved away from. Not so much with a cloaked ship.

Also ratting isn't actually 100% safe, as demonstrated on a continuous basis by killboards everywhere. On top of that the high degree of safety enjoyed by ratters requires a fair amount of effort and infrastructure in the form of an alliance (like the one you participate in) while you can train up a completely clean cloaky cyno alt in a few weeks on a spare character slot, or pay for a few injectors and mess with ratting in an entire system.

Local itself has its own issues, which are closely tied to cloaking, but most solutions to that problem swing between removing it entirely and making everywhere like wormholes or basically just taking local and turning it into a Citadel module or something.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8236 - 2016-12-25 07:16:39 UTC
Cate
The main problem with local is that it provides limited and poor real time information. So certainly has to be supplemented with something far more powerful (taking 3rd party functionality and integrating it ingame).

"Something in a citadel" is appropriate for wormhole space.

Giving players control of local in null-sec goes hand in hand with giving players control of the gates in null sec.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8237 - 2016-12-25 09:21:16 UTC
Quote:


The difference between being AFK in a station and AFK while cloaked is that a station is a choke point and can be relatively easily monitored or moved away from. Not so much with a cloaked ship.


Rat in a fleet, fit a cyno to your ships and you have that counter to afk cloaking.
Quote:

Also ratting isn't actually 100% safe, as demonstrated on a continuous basis by killboards everywhere.


Yes it's 100% safe. I see you coming the moment to enter the region and track your progress in real time. By the time you get to the system next door I'm docked.
Quote:

On top of that the high degree of safety enjoyed by ratters requires a fair amount of effort and infrastructure in the form of an alliance (like the one you participate in) while you can train up a completely clean cloaky cyno alt in a few weeks on a spare character slot, or pay for a few injectors and mess with ratting in an entire system.
said weeks old cloaker is no real danger.

Now my afk cloaking activities require me to avoid all of the camps, spend a week not being able to do anything and the several days of hunting just to bag a kill. That's a lot more effort than joining a channel and linking the name of the pilot and system the second they show up in local.
Quote:

Local itself has its own issues, which are closely tied to cloaking, but most solutions to that problem swing between removing it entirely and making everywhere like wormholes or basically just taking local and turning it into a Citadel module or something.


AFK cloaking is the only counter we have to local and the only way to catch a lot of the ratters out in null.
TEMPO Secheh
Doomheim
#8238 - 2016-12-25 12:28:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Now my afk cloaking activities require me to avoid all of the camps, spend a week not being able to do anything and the several days of hunting just to bag a kill. That's a lot more effort than joining a channel and linking the name of the pilot and system the second they show up in local.


I don't think you're being honest here. Traveling in a nullified cyno-packed cloaky boat is quite safe in and of itself, and you make it sound like if you were using your main account, which we both know it's not the case even more so when those afk camps can last weeks of being online 23/7. If you're actually sitting in front of your screen during all this time I can only take my hat off to you, and I hope that any change to the mechanic, if it is ever going to happens, don't interfer in your way of hunting.

What I for one am trying to say is that it needs to have some kind of ACTIVE mechanic to speed things up. Otherwise, just like off-grid boosting, it's one of those mechanics that doesn't allow counter-play by enemies and doesn't involve risk appropriate to its power.

That said, I agree that local chat is too strong as an intel tool, and that nullsec would benefit from a revamp.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8239 - 2016-12-25 13:33:42 UTC
Tempo
What does the population of wormhole space tell you about dangers of weakening intelligence in null-sec?

I am all for a revamp. For a more powerful ingame intelligence system giving real time information to individual players.

There are lots of features in 3rd party intel applications that should be at finger tip available in-game.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8240 - 2016-12-25 19:55:03 UTC
TEMPO Secheh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Now my afk cloaking activities require me to avoid all of the camps, spend a week not being able to do anything and the several days of hunting just to bag a kill. That's a lot more effort than joining a channel and linking the name of the pilot and system the second they show up in local.


I don't think you're being honest here. Traveling in a nullified cyno-packed cloaky boat is quite safe in and of itself, and you make it sound like if you were using your main account, which we both know it's not the case even more so when those afk camps can last weeks of being online 23/7. If you're actually sitting in front of your screen during all this time I can only take my hat off to you, and I hope that any change to the mechanic, if it is ever going to happens, don't interfer in your way of hunting.

What I for one am trying to say is that it needs to have some kind of ACTIVE mechanic to speed things up. Otherwise, just like off-grid boosting, it's one of those mechanics that doesn't allow counter-play by enemies and doesn't involve risk appropriate to its power.

That said, I agree that local chat is too strong as an intel tool, and that nullsec would benefit from a revamp.



The point still stands though. If I park one of my alts in a system that alt is useless to me for other endeavors such as invention which I also do. This is the notion of opportunity cost. People get opportunity cost when it comes to mining your own minerals (i.e., why they are not free, they are not free because you giving up the ISK you could have gotten had you sold them). Same thing here. AFK cloaking is not free because you give up whatever else that character could have done.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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