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War Mechanics
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Yuller
Slow Chidlren at Play
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#1 - 2012-01-19 23:41:23 UTC
Well lets revisit the broke ass war mechanics...
#1 Dec Shield alliance....As a merc alliance lets say i pay 300 mil to dec a corp for a client..Said corp joins dec shield and dec transfers...yay more targets...Now i get a surrender mail from said corp as they leave Dec Shield...Explain to me what the hell is this surrender mail for when there are no terms to be met....i'm out 300 mil now...Correct me if i am wrong but when Japan and Germany surrendered in WW II i seem to recall them having to meet the terms of this surrender....CCP you seem to mold this game around the carebears..They cry you make a patch....You patched Aggro mechanics for the idiots running incursions...You nerfed the Dramiel because it was too fast for the ceptors,, heaven forbid the awesome 123DPS it got...Its time you listen to the PVPer's...If your gonna make it this easy for corps to run and get out of a concord sanctioned war then just remove it from hi sec all together...Really whats the damn point of having it...
#2 I WANT MY ISK BACK when these people surrender...As a matter of a fact i think we should get back double what the war cost...You ruined low sec piracy with faction war...Lets just finnish it and make nul sec the only place to pvp
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2012-01-19 23:56:10 UTC

Yeah... and what the hell is this mechanic where a 1-man corp decs someone, and then suddenly accepts 20 people into corp when they have a gank lined up. Lets make it so you can't join a corp when they have a non-mutual wardec up!!

Donovun
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-20 00:07:05 UTC
In fact, war itself is avoidable in high sec.. All you have to do is hot swap from alliance to alliance and you can duck dodge and weave your way out of playing the game as intended. Toss up a POS, don't worry about defending it at all, no no no. No guns, no hardeners of any kind. All you have to do is stront the hell out of it and be rdy to jump ship if it gets engaged during a dec. If we blow the cash to re-dec your fleeing corp, we have to start from scratch again. If we choose to go through all that crap, spend the isk, wait out the silly timers and engage your pos again, now you just join another alliance and bail all over again.

It's crap, and I can't understand how CCP can say this isn't an exploit and outside the intended game content they sell to the masses. This game is heading down the "WoW" road where they bow down to the idea of getting everything now, and the ideals of working toward hard earned goals, and the development of tactics and talet will no longer be required for achievment. What will CCP do when all that is left is carebears?
Angel Violette
The Filthy Few
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2012-01-20 00:28:37 UTC
I still do not understand how alliance hopping to get rid of a wardec is not an exploit .
The war should follow the corporation where ever it goes .
Was this the intended game mechanic ? anytime there's a war you can't handle run to Dec-Shield ..

I'm the hand up Mona Lisa's skirt. I'm a surprise, They don't see me coming: that's what you're missing.
Kirith Vespira
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-20 00:30:25 UTC
Yeah, nothing pisses me off more when other players refuse---REFUSE--- to play the way *I* want them to!

Ungrateful bastages...
Angel Violette
The Filthy Few
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2012-01-20 00:33:30 UTC
Kirith Vespira wrote:
Yeah, nothing pisses me off more when other players refuse---REFUSE--- to play the way *I* want them to!

Ungrateful bastages...



Not at all there is still a surrender button they can push ...

I'm the hand up Mona Lisa's skirt. I'm a surprise, They don't see me coming: that's what you're missing.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#7 - 2012-01-20 02:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Yeah... and what the hell is this mechanic where a 1-man corp decs someone, and then suddenly accepts 20 people into corp when they have a gank lined up. Lets make it so you can't join a corp when they have a non-mutual wardec up!!




That behavior is result of wardec evasion, there is no need for 1 man wardecs if target can not escape.

Also bring can mining back !
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-20 03:03:19 UTC
Support for the OP. Current crap war mechanics are crap and people jumping constantly to avoid wars should be considered an exploit.
If a person wants to leave a corp that is at war, force them to join an NPC corp for a month. Some kind of stasis period would soon sort out the men from the boys. EvE is about PvP and conflict. Not making isk safely behind a dec shield.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-20 03:11:06 UTC
Yuller wrote:
CCP you seem to mold this game around the carebears..


No, just a (very small) portion of it. If you want a fight, you are welcome to do so in the other 6,000 or so systems. You don't even need to pay for a wardec.
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#10 - 2012-01-20 03:26:10 UTC
But...but that would mean fighting people better then his corp. D:
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-01-20 03:27:36 UTC
Oh, the horrors! You might actually have to... IMPROVE! Shocked
Yuller
Slow Chidlren at Play
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#12 - 2012-01-20 03:49:07 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Yuller wrote:
CCP you seem to mold this game around the carebears..


No, just a (very small) portion of it. If you want a fight, you are welcome to do so in the other 6,000 or so systems. You don't even need to pay for a wardec.



Hmmm lets see....oh yea the other 6000 systems which are low sec and nul sec....Pull your head out of your ass and read the post instead of your fail attempt at trolling...Hi sec is not meant to be safe and if it was why does concord sanction wars?i'd love to see a chart on how many losses game wide are to rats vrs pvp...You people seem to forget this is a player driven economy and pvp is a necessary part of it war dec's or not...
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#13 - 2012-01-20 05:17:24 UTC
Yuller wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Yuller wrote:
CCP you seem to mold this game around the carebears..


No, just a (very small) portion of it. If you want a fight, you are welcome to do so in the other 6,000 or so systems. You don't even need to pay for a wardec.



Hmmm lets see....oh yea the other 6000 systems which are low sec and nul sec....Pull your head out of your ass and read the post instead of your fail attempt at trolling...Hi sec is not meant to be safe and if it was why does concord sanction wars?i'd love to see a chart on how many losses game wide are to rats vrs pvp...You people seem to forget this is a player driven economy and pvp is a necessary part of it war dec's or not...


Your statement makes it sound like you're afraid of low sec and null sec. As long as corp hopping to gank someone and then leave right after is involved dec shield will remain as it is. There are a balance of one another.

Just are people are free to pursue war, people are free to leave it. People pay money to play the game, if you want them to play the way you want them to then YOU PAY FOR IT. If not then





DEAL WITH IT
Angel Violette
The Filthy Few
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2012-01-20 10:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Angel Violette
Just are people are free to pursue war, people are free to leave it.










This is why there is a surrender option

I'm the hand up Mona Lisa's skirt. I'm a surprise, They don't see me coming: that's what you're missing.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-01-20 11:13:49 UTC
Yuller wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Yuller wrote:
CCP you seem to mold this game around the carebears..


No, just a (very small) portion of it. If you want a fight, you are welcome to do so in the other 6,000 or so systems. You don't even need to pay for a wardec.

Hmmm lets see....oh yea the other 6000 systems which are low sec and nul sec.......

OMGWEALLGONNADIE!!! Shocked

Yuller wrote:
...You people seem to forget this is a player driven economy and pvp is a necessary part of it war dec's or not...

that's why you don't want pvp? Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Keeley Ellis
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-01-20 12:25:28 UTC
Yuller wrote:
#2 I WANT MY ISK BACK


I think I know the example you're talking about. If people don't want to fight, they'll always choose the easiest option to avoid it, whether that is hiding in a wormhole, decshielding or simply staying docked up. The only problem I see with dec-shields is that some people provide it as a free service.

But-
I agree in principle, that CONCORD should refund a proportional amount of the war costs relevant to the amount of time remaining in the event of a surrender.

Perhaps there should be a "joining a war" charge for any alliance accepting corporations who have active wars. Of course, this wont prevent dec-shielding, but it will get rid of the free ones.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#17 - 2012-01-20 13:17:34 UTC
Another post about the broken War Dec system.

Its been broken for years and I agree with OP, he just wasted 300m.

Dec Shield was made i belive to prove how broken the system is, but broken in all angels.

For those deccing and also for those getting decced (Greifed in many situations)

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-01-20 13:21:17 UTC
I don't know why you guys are even discussing this. Nothing is going to happen with the current mechanics besides minor tweaking until CRIMEWATCH gets rewritten.

I has all the eve inactivity
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#19 - 2012-01-20 16:24:54 UTC
Quote:
I agree in principle, that CONCORD should refund a proportional amount of the war costs relevant to the amount of time remaining in the event of a surrender.


That's like paying a cop to look the other direction while you wait to beat someone up, then when they dont show up you ask the cop for your money back... you REALLY think he's gonna give two ***** about how you didn't get your chance to beat the guy up cause of a no show?

It's astonishing how people keep looking at the way concord behaves regarding this. You're blackmailing them to look the other direction so you can declare war in high-security.

With that said, I agree wardecs are imperfect, but there will always be something, they will fix these issues then it will be tears of how the person just sits in station, and the other side complaining how they payed their monthly sub only to find they can't play because their either too stupid to fit a pvp ship, just not skilled enough, outnumbered blah blah blah.

90% of the solutions or ideas out there just compound the problem because of narrowminded idiocy that only see their point of view and what they want the system to do for them.

Ultimatly however to most of that people need to understand, if you join a corporation or start one, you're agreeing to have people war dec you if they decide to.

TL:DR

Its a game, there are lots of ways to kill ppl, and those ppl will always find a way to avoid being killed.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#20 - 2012-01-20 16:38:33 UTC
It seems to me those that prefer wardecs like being able to pick and choose their targets, rather than open themselves up to the FFA that low and null represent. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm certainly not criticizing it.

Recognize, though, that your dec fee is really a way to make yourself "immune" to the majority of the EVE playerbase, while engaging targets that probably won't present that much of a challenge.

Again, if you want to go seal clubbing, that's your business, and how you choose to play. Just don't go getting righteously indignant when your targets don't allow themselves to be clubbed.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
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