EVE General Discussion

*reads post*

*looks at name of poster and recalls all the things he has to say about people*

*has aneurysm from too much laughing*

I changed and added some terms to my post inorder to specificy/elaborate a bit more.

My primary purpose, was to logically and rationally boil down the issues.

This resulted in the fundamental purpose behind bumping (and hence bubbles and warp scram), as preventing a target's warp, and that these are over-reached by system security issues.

My conclusion was that removing bumping, or making it illegal, is not warranted or justified, owing to how these three warp prevention options are currently, rationally tiered/differentiated by security of space. NS/WH have 3, LS has 2, HS has 1 (all interms of interference with warping, without a systemic reaction/penalty).

That boiled the points down to the remaining issue of bumping mechanics itself.

To which I concluded that there are options to rationalize bumping, as against the potential of perpetual bumping of a single ship by a single "aggressor" or more, that do not making bumping by one ship, or multiple ships, or one target, impossible or unduly difficult anywhere in space, regardless of sector (universal).

PS: I operate from a premise that indefinite bumping, is silly.
Some may argue that if I bump a ship from one side of the system, to the other, whilst demanding ransoms, and then saying "oh, rates just went up, gonna need another payment, broski" constitutes content. I dont.
There has to be limits to behavior which disables another player.

PPS: Statistics in this thread have shown that the risk of freighter destruction, is negligible, especially considering the staggering volume of material transport ships, and mitigated even further by precautions. The predators are few, their organisation/humbers demanding, and their chance of profit is a lottery. Yes, getting ganked when you dont take precautions, fly what you cant afford to lose, or or have backup, is a huge loss. But that is one's ownfault.

Bumping does have counters that are relatively simple to do.

First is webbing the freighter into warp which is so fast you see the freighter often entering warp backwards. Super simple to do and only requires a single cheap frigate as escort.

Second is if you are bumped you can get a fast frigate out in front of the bumped freighter. The freighter then simply can warp to the frigate, align out and be webbed into warp. Relatively easy to pull off.

Third is bumping the bumpers. This requires some degree of piloting and a few pilots but again with practice is relatively easy to do using a handful of cruisers.

Infinite bumping can only happen if people do nothing to stop it.

Yes, and thanks for being the first to outline them outright in this thread.
These are all valid.

But these all also involve the intervention of a third participant inorder to enact.

I take issue with this.
I dont think that escaping bumping, eventually, should require a third participant.
The lowest common denominator of PvP in EVE, in all its facets, is 1v1.

I don't who whines the most, those who gank or those who are ganked.

Personally I couldn't give a crap about either side.

I wish they would just play the game without having to constantly bring their tedious whinging to the forums.

Why? To gank a freighter you need around 20 people. And you really think you should be able to counter 20 people on your own? If you are flying a multi billion ship with a muli billion cargo and you are too cheap to buy/get some assistance you deserve to die. Freight costs with red frog are around 3% and even paying a 1 webber will be cheaper if you carry multi billion cargo. In low/null you would be toast to 2 or 3 people and you want to counter 20 in HS?

1) Nowhere, ever, have I said that 20 people should not be able to bump, or gank, a target, in any sector. I have not even remotely insinuated that. You are misreading my posts, misrepresenting them and implying things I have never said.

2) I have specifically, repeatedly, over and over, many times, in many ways, pointed out how important it is to take all available precautions. I also invoked the Golden Rule, do not fly what you cannot afford to lose (which includes freighters AND their cargo).

3) I have specifically, repeatedly, over and over, many times, in many ways, pointed out (as shown by data in this thread), that the risk of being destroyed/targetted as a freighter is vanishingly small ( there is soooo much material passing through EVE) And that though the cost of that happening, if overburdened with too valuable cargo and lacking in precautions, can be crippling, its unlikely to happen, and even moreso if you follow point 3).

4) Honestly, a genuine up yours for making me waste time on this post, though I have already said the same over and over, specifically. Please read the goddam thread before jumping to conclusions.

Nothing you are saying contradicts anything I have said.
You are positing that I should defend positions I never took. I cannot do that, nor am I required to.

You are fighting against imaginary windmills, not me or anything I have written.

Please. Read. The. Goddam. Thread.
It is a good thread. There is a lot of good discussion and information here.

After that, if you have questions on my views, I will answer them as long as they question what I have actually written, not what you imply it as in your own mind.

Apparently you missed the part where it references buddies from an old corp--i.e. trust is already established.

Trying to do it with players who have serially screwed up and who suddenly are realizing the true nature of the game and who have no idea who you are...yeah you might as well try pissing up a rope.

That is another area many of these people screw up.

1. Overload the freighter.
2. Fit no tank.
3. Have no friends in game which leads to:
4. No scout.
5. No webber
6. Nobody to try and gank the bumper
7. Nobody to try and bump the bumping ship.

They essentially ****** up, got into a bad situation and their attempt to play solo means they have no recourse once they are in the ****.

But I KNOW!!!! Lets give them one last out!

I recognize Im expressing a difficult/controversial view, but I hold with the principle of balance/design from the bottom up, not top down.

1v1 is the lowest common denominator in EVE, and in all conflict/competition.
When you introduce more participants than that, options/complications dramatically increase.
But its still ultimately 1v1 that underlines all of that.
Even if it is 10000 vs 10000, all interaction still boils down to 1v1.

You against me.
Us against yours.
It is always 1v1.

---

Returning to topic, ad nauseum:
-Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose (that includes cargo).
-Take all possible precautions (such as escorts/webber/scout, as you pointed out specifically.)

What concerns me, singularly, is indefinite 1v1 bumping.
I dont think I should be able, in one ship, to bump another ship, indefinitely.
Sure, I have options to call assistance to break that, as too does the antagonist.
But that is circumstantial, not mechanical.

There needs to be a limit to bumping. Indefinite is not acceptable.