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Amarr - a whole bloodline of cloned old people?

Author
Amanda Creire-Geng
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-12-21 20:20:07 UTC
I don't mean Ni-Kunnis or Khanids (those are fine, and have a good range of faces), but the Amarr bloodline specifically. These guys and gals seem like they're born 40 years old, for how impossible it is to create a remotely young character. The age slider only goes from old to fossil. And not only that, but they ALL look pretty much alike, especially the guys. Take any bloodline/gender combination and hit the randomize button a few times, and you are bound to get at least few characters that wouldn't be confused as twins of each other, but try that with Amarr and it's the same guy/gal with a different haircut. Every. Single. Time.

Am I wrong here? Perhaps failing to use the character editor to its full potential? If so, prove me wrong! Show off your Amarr characters and prove that this bloodline isn't just a couple of narcissists with a seriously overworked cloning factory.
Vigirr
#2 - 2016-12-21 20:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vigirr
One of my old alts disagrees. True Amarr female.
Booty Mc Toothy
#3 - 2016-12-21 20:39:51 UTC
o7
Naimh
#4 - 2016-12-21 20:42:25 UTC
Amanda Creire-Geng
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-12-21 20:44:47 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
One of my old alts disagrees. True Amarr female.


Fair enough, that doesn't look remotely anything like the characters I've been getting with randomise. Still would like to see if there's some possible variety with males, though.

Booty Mc Toothy wrote:
o7


Naimh wrote:
boop


You're both Ni-Kunni, GET OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR LIES!
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2016-12-21 20:52:22 UTC
Amanda Creire-Geng wrote:

You're both Ni-Kunni, GET OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR LIES!


And so the race wars have begun

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2016-12-21 21:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast of Revelations
We Amarrians all look alike because we keep our bloodlines pure, unlike the lesser mongrelized races of New Eden.
Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
#8 - 2016-12-21 21:30:34 UTC
40 is old now?
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#9 - 2016-12-21 22:14:09 UTC
My main toon is Amarr. I went to great lengths to avoid looking like most other Amarrian males. It's hard too as they aren't the best looking toons. Lore wise, everyone Amarrian looks older because they force age themselves physically. Something about age and wisdom
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-12-21 23:03:41 UTC
Can confirm Amarrican males get procedures done to look old and hawkish because culturally it's seen as desirable.
Do you even lore, bro?


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2016-12-21 23:04:11 UTC
years and years ago there was a CCP video about lore and avatar deveopment, and one dev said the Amarr were made that way to ensure EVE would have "really old dudes." I interpreted that to mean Amarr were designated as the group to ensure some variety and personality in the game.

Fast forward to now and I'm a student of a general 3D discipline (not related to games nope not at all). I learned that facial customizations are accomplished with a morph type of slider, and as adjustments to sets of vertexes you can have combinations of influences working on the same geometry at once.

That's great for changing the shape of a 3D model like a face, but to change the age or especially the wrinkles with a slider is far more involved.

I always accepted the desire to include "really old dudes" and now I understand if you want them to be old they have to be that way exclusively. Or you would have to create a young Amarr variant which is essentially another bloodline's worth of work.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2016-12-21 23:07:59 UTC
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-12-21 23:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
Amanda Creire-Geng wrote:
I don't mean Ni-Kunnis or Khanids (those are fine, and have a good range of faces), but the Amarr bloodline specifically. These guys and gals seem like they're born 40 years old, for how impossible it is to create a remotely young character. The age slider only goes from old to fossil. And not only that, but they ALL look pretty much alike, especially the guys. Take any bloodline/gender combination and hit the randomize button a few times, and you are bound to get at least few characters that wouldn't be confused as twins of each other, but try that with Amarr and it's the same guy/gal with a different haircut. Every. Single. Time.

Am I wrong here? Perhaps failing to use the character editor to its full potential? If so, prove me wrong! Show off your Amarr characters and prove that this bloodline isn't just a couple of narcissists with a seriously overworked cloning factory.


All the races tend to blur together. I think it's because people don't spend a lot of time in the character creator. Amarr don't respect people if they don't look older and experienced. It's deeply ingrained in their culture.

Minimally all Amarr male models are stuck with crow's feet, tear troughs, nasiolabial folds. There are not very pronounced marionette lines, which says something about them. Anorexics tend to get marionette lines early and the Amarr are very well fed.

There's no getting around it. It's difficult for you to understand Amarr culture. But is it difficult for you to understand how a race 20,000 years into the future could be so alien from our own that they would adopt standards of beauty different from our own? It's just storytelling, that's all. Eve is a fictional universe. If you think looking young is important for your character you might try playing Khanid or Ni-Kunni, as it's pretty easy to make a very young looking Khanid. Also the Amarr Amarrian females tend to look much younger.

The Amarr would think our culture very, very shallow and lacking in spirituality.

On the other hand, try creating an old looking Gallente. That's very difficult as well and they all tend to look a little like a young person wearing old people makeup.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴

Ri Shigeta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-12-21 23:35:34 UTC
Seriously, it's like their clone bays and pods double as UV tanning beds or something- these Amarr are seriously leathery.

They look permanently pissed to boot. Shocked
Sark Nosha
Nosha Trading Empire
#15 - 2016-12-22 00:41:05 UTC
This is exactly why I like Khanid -
But if you want nice looking - the Minmatar - Sebiestors win that race for me.

My main has two lovely Sebiestor wives (alts) lol jk
Memphis Baas
#16 - 2016-12-22 01:55:34 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
one dev said the Amarr were made that way to ensure EVE would have "really old dudes."


You should do the tutorial with an Amarr character, the voice actor for their FC Tahron is really good (sounds like an old person).
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2016-12-22 01:59:08 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
one dev said the Amarr were made that way to ensure EVE would have "really old dudes."


You should do the tutorial with an Amarr character, the voice actor for their FC Tahron is really good (sounds like an old person).

That's a fun idea, but I tried the tutorial back on Sisi so the second time around I'd want to make it special. If I brought the rest of me, can they help?
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-12-22 02:16:58 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
but to change the age or especially the wrinkles with a slider is far more involved. .


A slider that aged a human face would move at least tens of points, if not hundreds, to look convincing.
I was amazed when the new avatars came out, they seemed like Rich Corben's paintings or photos compared to the 80s style of the old ones.
Still don't like the way avatar's waists are put together. Maybe too many subtle lines and curves there to modify, since you have the core muscles then fat laid over it in different ways.
Vherokior women seem impossible to generate without them being youthful and hotter than the sun.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Asharin
Laughing In Purgatory
Pewgilism.
#19 - 2016-12-22 02:41:38 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
one dev said the Amarr were made that way to ensure EVE would have "really old dudes."


You should do the tutorial with an Amarr character, the voice actor for their FC Tahron is really good (sounds like an old person).

Best of the voiceovers in my opinion :)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-12-22 02:48:52 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
but to change the age or especially the wrinkles with a slider is far more involved. .


A slider that aged a human face would move at least tens of points, if not hundreds, to look convincing.
I was amazed when the new avatars came out, they seemed like Rich Corben's paintings or photos compared to the 80s style of the old ones.
Still don't like the way avatar's waists are put together. Maybe too many subtle lines and curves there to modify, since you have the core muscles then fat laid over it in different ways.
Vherokior women seem impossible to generate without them being youthful and hotter than the sun.






I think they look great for the most part too. It's easy to tell when something looks wrong but to get it right on purpose is a feat. The waist can look weird, but that tends to happen with overlapping morphs. When you want to morph a section of a model, it's a set of linear shifts applied to vertexes. You know, xyz coordinates, and multiple linear inputs are averaged out to determine a vertex's final position.

morphs can be blended with what are essentially if-then-else combinations, and an extreme age slider would be one of them. So it's possible to combine it all on one character, but there's still the color painted into the folds of the skin (textures) that need to be swapped, and then clipping considerations for the new volume of the shape, and it really does approach the work of a new model.

You can probably smooth wrinkles and lift the flesh of the face with an extended age slider. But you'd have to tighten up so much flesh it's better to make a second set of morphs. (Because if you made a morph involving saggy skin with deep valleys, those xyz shifts won't be valid on a younger face)

Body morphs use the same strategy as facial expressions (and technically it can all be referred to as 'expressions' as well as 'blend shapes'). The face shape and whole-body morphs are essentially expressions that are frozen in place.

The whole-body morphs are pretty good examples of multiple models in one. You're morphing all the vertexes from, say, a heavy set body to those of a skinny body (and both were sculpted as extremes of that range). When you start adding influences like musculature, things can start clashing.

These avatars are very high quality. Every bit industry standard. It makes me sad to think how few players will understand this.
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