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Chances of mission runner getting ganked in HS?

Author
Code Redd
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-12-21 00:39:17 UTC
i have (not on this character, dont look), lost a navy raven to a gank in 0.6 sec, at a gate. It was accomplished with 4 tornadoes.

The thing is, those 4 tornadoes cost, what, 350m, gank fit? They did a FINe job of getting that raven down.

The drop rate on mods is, what, around 50%? SO, when the tankers look at your ship, if they're ganking you to make isk, they do a ship scan. Beware frigs on gates, or on the undock, that always seem to be there. You wont know that they scan you, they use a passive targeter and a ships scanner.

IF the value of your mods exceeds the calculated cost to kill you, you are a target. Most of the time, they're not going to bring the thrasher gang to gank you for your mods, those people do it for fun.

So, for example, if you have 800m in mods, but it would cost them 5 tornadoes in 0.6 sec .. chances are they wont do it, because the cost to them is going to be almost over 400m for a 50% drop rate. If, instead, you fit 2.5b in mods on there... their gank cost is the same, 430m or so in tornadoes, but a 50% drop rate can almost promise them 1.25b ... enough to pay for 3 ganks if they win. If the loot fairy smiles and 100% of your bling drops, 6 ganks with no drops, is still break even.

It's about the cost to gank you vs the profit. Again, a gang of thrashers, are probably not going to care what's on your ship, but gankers for profit do math. Be familure with that math.

My mission ship has a 250 dps tank, no bling. Doesnt need it. It pushes out 1300 dps in guns alone--again, no bling. If i put a TON of isk into it, i could get it to 800 dps tank, and 1750 dps--but at that point, THREE tornados could kill it, and i would have something on the order of 1.8b in mods on it... i would be a target. BUT, the tank doesnt need to be over 250, the dps difference inside the mission from 1300 to 1700 is ZERO because of rate-of-fire (things die in a volly, volly time is unchanged) ... but one fit costs me 175m, and the other 1.8b ... why bling it?

do math.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-12-21 02:17:11 UTC
Having some sort of killboard and not letting people get aggro helps.
I did missions in a faction machariel until my eyes went glassy and only ever met intruders in my mission pocket twice in a year.

Yes, you can fly a meh ship fitted with meh mods, that way you can crouch with your head between your knees in hisec, hoping nobody notices you. Or you can have your tank running when you travel in your bling isk-printer and not get alpha'd at all.
(inb4 a bunch of stats from people who will advise you to lie down and hold still when a moth flies into the room)

Ultimately you need to graduate to PVE outside empire where a blinged loss is recoverable and a team of blue maniacs can pulverise anyone who even looks at you funny.







Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#23 - 2016-12-21 02:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Kildare
Deadlyy Goliath wrote:
Hey guys, I was wondering how much my ship needs to cost to make me a target for gankers in HS space where I mission. I'm currently flying a Navy Raven worth 1b (fit mainly faction and deadspace) so I was wondering what are the risks. I mainly mission in 0.7 and higher and all 7 mids I have I use on tank mods. I'm not planning on making my ship anymore expensive so I was wondering if I should bring some of my mods to T2 instead of faction or deadspace in order to reduce the chances of getting ganked. Also is there any precautions I should take to reduce my chances of death except from looking at D scan?


a few notes:

A) your Navy Raven may have 7 midslots, but you really shouldn't need to use all 7 on tank unless your skills aren't up to snuff. Target Painters and Missile Guidance Computers are a missileboat captain's best friends after the launchers and BCSes.

B) avoid the temptation to bring your shiny shinies to Osmon, Lanngisi, and Apanake for L4 SOE missions (more likely to get ganked in or near those systems than most other L4 mission hubs, though other corp L4 mission hubs that are very close to the trade hubs and to the Uedama or Niarja or Balle/Aufay gank corridors are also sometimes unsafe).

C) make instaundock and instadock bookmarks at all trade hubs and all mission stations and anywhere else you dock and undock expensive stuff from/at. People can still scan your ship and gank you at gates, but at least at stations, you can instantly warp out of the undock and instantly dock up rather than slowboating into dock range like often happens when manually warping to stations.
Taz Carnarth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-12-21 02:44:58 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers.

So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you?

If you're confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy.


I am fairly new to this game and so haven't seen that story before, but other then feeling sorry for the overly trusting man that got scammed, I can't help but feel this is the reason Eve is a niche market game. It's nature is that you can risk real money and most people dont want that. I have spent way too much on World of tanks, but my purchases are permanent (well until the game dies). I am not putting at risk that money invested every time I get into a battle. I cant help feel that it making mechanics that allow that to happen is really a bad marketing strategy that wont pull in huge amounts of players. If that guy who got scammed stuck around how much more would he have spent on the game compared to him quitting after his 2 bad experiences.

Personally it won't effect me as I am happy to spend the sub and explore the game without rushing. Time isnt a problem for me.

Maybe this stuff has been discussed previously to death, but I find this games monetization strategies to be weird. maybe I will make a proper forum post about to discuss it.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#25 - 2016-12-21 03:42:38 UTC
Taz Carnarth wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers.

So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you?

If you're confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy.


I am fairly new to this game and so haven't seen that story before, but other then feeling sorry for the overly trusting man that got scammed, I can't help but feel this is the reason Eve is a niche market game. It's nature is that you can risk real money and most people dont want that. I have spent way too much on World of tanks, but my purchases are permanent (well until the game dies). I am not putting at risk that money invested every time I get into a battle. I cant help feel that it making mechanics that allow that to happen is really a bad marketing strategy that wont pull in huge amounts of players. If that guy who got scammed stuck around how much more would he have spent on the game compared to him quitting after his 2 bad experiences.

Personally it won't effect me as I am happy to spend the sub and explore the game without rushing. Time isnt a problem for me.

Maybe this stuff has been discussed previously to death, but I find this games monetization strategies to be weird. maybe I will make a proper forum post about to discuss it.


It has indeed been discussed at length, many times. You say that this is the reason EVE is a niche game, but you could also argue that a game to give players freedom like this could be the reason why its still going strong after 13 years.

Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, however.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Taz Carnarth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2016-12-21 04:23:26 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
Taz Carnarth wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
The only people who care about your shiny mods are you, and gankers.

So you have to ask yourself, do you really need that extra 20 DPS the faction mod gives you? Do you really need the slightly higher shield rep that officer mod gives you?

If you're confident in your abilities to avoid being ganked, then by all means fit yourself up with epics and hope you don't end up like this guy.


I am fairly new to this game and so haven't seen that story before, but other then feeling sorry for the overly trusting man that got scammed, I can't help but feel this is the reason Eve is a niche market game. It's nature is that you can risk real money and most people dont want that. I have spent way too much on World of tanks, but my purchases are permanent (well until the game dies). I am not putting at risk that money invested every time I get into a battle. I cant help feel that it making mechanics that allow that to happen is really a bad marketing strategy that wont pull in huge amounts of players. If that guy who got scammed stuck around how much more would he have spent on the game compared to him quitting after his 2 bad experiences.

Personally it won't effect me as I am happy to spend the sub and explore the game without rushing. Time isnt a problem for me.

Maybe this stuff has been discussed previously to death, but I find this games monetization strategies to be weird. maybe I will make a proper forum post about to discuss it.


It has indeed been discussed at length, many times. You say that this is the reason EVE is a niche game, but you could also argue that a game to give players freedom like this could be the reason why its still going strong after 13 years.

Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread, however.


Yes there will be two sides of the argument and I am positive that the owners of the game have put a lot of thought into it. As you point out this is derailing the OP's topic so I will look for previous posts on the topic.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#27 - 2016-12-21 04:52:57 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Oh and a basic cost formula...

A Tornado can cause around 14k damage and costs 70 mil isk. Divide your EHP by 15000. Multiply that value by 70 mil isk. Is that value worth less than 1/2 the price of your ship? If yes, you are profitable to gank. Reduce mods to reduce ship costor increase ship costs. This formula means that an average freighter should carry under about 1bil in isk to be safeish. (i say safeish because people may gank you for fun and tears despite the list income)

Yes I know catalysts are cheaper and use different dps calculations but as a basic estimator rule, this is close enough.


I've used 100m/10k ehp for years, also helps to assume they make a decent profit off ganking you. Imo if you get ganked for less they were just doing it for lulz anyways. Replacing a gank fleet and taking the time to scout people is more effort than most people will put in for minimal profit. Also another reason I like blitzing, I'm not out in space for a long time so the chances of getting probed and still being there by the time they warp in on me are pretty low. The gate ganks are typically the more specialized tornado ganks and they are usually looking for max profit.

That said decent mission fits should come in well below that bench mark, especially if you consider that the ship hull and rigs can't drop. So many faction/deadspace items have crashed in price over the years. Mainly want a few faction damage mods to help boost dps to get missions done quicker. faction/deadspace tank is almost all for the sake of pimp or laziness, I do like the pith c-type xl booster, pretty cheap and uses less cpu than t2, but deadspace invluns or gist boosters get very flashy.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

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