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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8181 - 2016-12-20 15:53:23 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
WH space has no relationship at all with null sec, but why do WH players keep coming into this thread and keep going on about removing local, simple, they want easy kills, they hate that local identifies them as being in system because it is not the same as WH space and their prey sees them coming, so they have to switch to different tactics and strategies, which is hard for them, some do and are good at it, others just whine.

Anyone who identifies themselves as a WH player and goes off on local is a roaring carebear and should be ashamed of themselves, local exists, deal with it or stay in WH space.


First, stop replying to yourself with an alt.

Second, you do realize WH residents look for PvP outside of WHs, yeah? WHs open up in null, believe it or not
Xcom
US Space Force
Black Rose.
#8182 - 2016-12-20 15:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
I have this gut feeling that every CCP dev flyes cloaked ships when online. Even with local removed AFK cloaking will be a thing until they shut down the servers.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8183 - 2016-12-20 16:05:43 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
Your issues with local was resolved with the introduction of wormhole space.

Play there if you don't like local. Its a niche environment that most everyone hates (among the reasons for the hatred is due to lack of local), but you should occassionally be able to find someone there.

Empire gates have Empire local.

End of story

Afkarebearing (killing things in absolute safety is the trademark of the true carebear) has to end as soon as possible.

CCP is of course aware of this.


WH space has no relationship at all with null sec, but why do WH players keep coming into this thread and keep going on about removing local, simple, they want easy kills, they hate that local identifies them as being in system because it is not the same as WH space and their prey sees them coming, so they have to switch to different tactics and strategies, which is hard for them, some do and are good at it, others just whine.

Anyone who identifies themselves as a WH player and goes off on local is a roaring carebear and should be ashamed of themselves, local exists, deal with it or stay in WH space.


The reason we are here is because we use cloaks extensively and 99% of your "fixes" for AFK-cloaking mean you break cloaking in general. Also, we do PVP and PVE in all parts of Eve, where ever the wormholes lead us to. So yes, we do have a say in this.

Wormholer for life.
Xcom
US Space Force
Black Rose.
#8184 - 2016-12-20 16:21:17 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Ya cause feeding the troll camping your system will make him go away, nice try. I know your blind but I did point out it was during the over watch days. He had us all in his over watch list and knew we were less active in the US tz. What ended up happening was that we basically deprived him of content by never running mining sights and he got board and left. If we were stupid enough to leave ambushes and gotten him killed he would just use one of the other characters logged out in the system and gotten back in to camp us for far longer.


Well thank god the watchlist was removed then right? No more easy intel of who is online and who is not. Now he actually has to use his eyes, which means he has to leave his safespots

I know your not aware of the methods of getting rid of AFK cloakers. The best method is to deprive them of content. If everyone logged off and never logged back in no AFK cloaking would be needed. The stupid thing is that cloaking is so safe that the only method left for the defenders is literally that very action, log out or move till the AFK cloaker gets board. Give that cloaker some bait and arouse some interest and it will stick around for longer.

Cloaks in this game is by far the worst implementation of its kind. Nothing about it is balanced, exactly nothing. The second that cloak activates the game turns into a ****** invulnerability module. Its like having a rorqual turn that invon boost on indefinitely.

Local just makes it easier to spot the cloaked ships. But if local wasn't there cloaks would still be able to cloak in perfect safety.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8185 - 2016-12-20 16:43:19 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Ya cause feeding the troll camping your system will make him go away, nice try. I know your blind but I did point out it was during the over watch days. He had us all in his over watch list and knew we were less active in the US tz. What ended up happening was that we basically deprived him of content by never running mining sights and he got board and left. If we were stupid enough to leave ambushes and gotten him killed he would just use one of the other characters logged out in the system and gotten back in to camp us for far longer.


Well thank god the watchlist was removed then right? No more easy intel of who is online and who is not. Now he actually has to use his eyes, which means he has to leave his safespots

I know your not aware of the methods of getting rid of AFK cloakers. The best method is to deprive them of content. If everyone logged off and never logged back in no AFK cloaking would be needed. The stupid thing is that cloaking is so safe that the only method left for the defenders is literally that very action, log out or move till the AFK cloaker gets board. Give that cloaker some bait and arouse some interest and it will stick around for longer.

Cloaks in this game is by far the worst implementation of its kind. Nothing about it is balanced, exactly nothing. The second that cloak activates the game turns into a ****** invulnerability module. Its like having a rorqual turn that invon boost on indefinitely.

Local just makes it easier to spot the cloaked ships. But if local wasn't there cloaks would still be able to cloak in perfect safety.


You are aware that you are not invulnerable when cloaked? You do take damage. So bombs and smartbombs work.

Wormholer for life.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8186 - 2016-12-20 17:53:33 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Your issues with local was resolved with the introduction of wormhole space.

Play there if you don't like local. Its a niche environment that most everyone hates (among the reasons for the hatred is due to lack of local), but you should occassionally be able to find someone there.

Empire gates have Empire local.

End of story

Afkarebearing (killing things in absolute safety is the trademark of the true carebear) has to end as soon as possible.

CCP is of course aware of this.


No complaint from me. But it's no secret that local affords too much safety to nullbears and CCP are aware that afk cloaking is a non-issue in WH's. Hence fozzies comment in this thread.

If local is removed from null (null is not empire) you can play in low or high if you are that attached to it and earn rewards more your level.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8187 - 2016-12-20 22:26:20 UTC
Daichi
Nothing undocked is risk free except for afk cloaky campers. And some quarter trillion targets cannot even move. CCP has opted for the epic way to kill things in null-sec. As it should be.

The point is that you are wrong. Null-sec is very dangerous. Lots and lots of very expensive stuff dies there every hour. AFKarebearing is the only exception to that rule.

Wormhole space was created as a local free sandbox environment. It proved to be a stunning failure when measure by player activity in that section of space.

I would find it ill-advised for CCP to double down on that particular failure.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8188 - 2016-12-20 23:50:32 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Daichi
Nothing undocked is risk free except for afk cloaky campers. And some quarter trillion targets cannot even move. CCP has opted for the epic way to kill things in null-sec. As it should be.

The point is that you are wrong. Null-sec is very dangerous. Lots and lots of very expensive stuff dies there every hour. AFKarebearing is the only exception to that rule.

Wormhole space was created as a local free sandbox environment. It proved to be a stunning failure when measure by player activity in that section of space.

I would find it ill-advised for CCP to double down on that particular failure.


Still trolling I see. Keep it up. You're up to a 3/10 so keep at it!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8189 - 2016-12-21 02:21:04 UTC
On the contrary, wh space was a success beyond ccp expectations. They never intended people to live there, it was never meant to be highly populated. The very opposite in fact, its meant to be the great unknown. I mean christ, null is a failure as far as activity and killboards go. Its a dead zone compared to hi-sec. Your own measurement of 'success' basically says the entire game except hi-sec is a failure. And the reason people don't goto wh has more to do with unstable connections and the logistics nightmare than lack of local. Get a clue.

If null ratting is dangerous then so is afk cloaking. Both sides take losses.

Just another bear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8190 - 2016-12-21 07:18:25 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
On the contrary, wh space was a success beyond ccp expectations. They never intended people to live there, it was never meant to be highly populated. The very opposite in fact, its meant to be the great unknown. I mean christ, null is a failure as far as activity and killboards go. Its a dead zone compared to hi-sec. Your own measurement of 'success' basically says the entire game except hi-sec is a failure. And the reason people don't goto wh has more to do with unstable connections and the logistics nightmare than lack of local. Get a clue.

If null ratting is dangerous then so is afk cloaking. Both sides take losses.

Just another bear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.


So why if it is such a great success are so many people leaving WH space?

WH success was based on running sleeper sites especially capital escalations, they were adjusted and most of the people I knew who were running them decided it was no longer worth it and closed down their WH, I helped some people move out some of their shineies. Oh excuse me I am supposed not to know anything about WH space aka the Trolls I blocked, silly me...

This thread is about AFK cloaking camping to utilise the threat of cyno hot drops, as you do not have cyno hot drops it has nothing to do with WH space except the total security of cloaking which others have raised, WH players without exception come into this thread and go off on local because they don't like it as the bears are warned of their presence and they cannot get easy kills using the same approach they use in WH space, well cry more please, you cannot adjust you are bad Eve players. Stay in WH space then if you are that entitled, there is a reason why you are there in the first place, mainly because you could not hack it taking space in null sec!

WH players moaning about local in other game areas are some of the biggest jerks in the game period!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8191 - 2016-12-21 08:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Daichi
Well, the expectation that no local results in no one living there worked out wonderfully. Nerfing nullsec local would be activity suicide and entirely contrary to what CCP is trying to achieve. For wormhole space, you now have citadels for people to live in. I think OAs are also needed if that segment of space is to be viable. We will see.

Null-sec is very dangerous. PvE in null sec is a means to an end (it helps fund epic battles).

IF Empire gates, Then Empire local (bring player control of nullsec gates to the table and we can begin to talk about player control of intelligence).

And yepp. Alpha clone filtration into null sec and wormhole space is quite bad. So something needs to be done.

I would suggest a light local for wormhole space (OA type solution)
Enhanced local for k-space (something for individual pilots that is equal to or better than alliance intel channels)
And the end of AFKarebearing (afk cloaky camping).

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8192 - 2016-12-21 10:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
@Dracvlad,
most of the people you know are quitting the game because of afk cloaking. Or thats what you say. But in your echo chamber of carebears that's what I'd expect you to hear. I also expect that the people leaving the wh are also bears, probably renting bears. So it's not that surprising they don't think its worth it the second the pve gets nerfed. As far as i can tell though, there is no mass exodus from wh's when it comes to the general population. Can you link me something reporting how everyone is leaving?

Dracvlad wrote:


WH players moaning about local in other game areas are some of the biggest jerks in the game period!


And what about null players moaning about local in other areas?

@Jerghul
It was the logistical nightmare of living there that ccp thought meant people would only ever put up temporary bases. Not the lack of local.

Alphas aren't going to any dangerous space much. Not just wh's and null. It's not the lack of local, its simply that you can be shot at that keeps the majority of players (not just alphas) firmly in hi-sec. And an alpha that can't cloak, or fly t2, is even further out of it's comfort in wh's. Mass restrictions go against the noob blob and cloaking is almost essential for diving into wh's.

Do alphas have to go live in wh's? Not really. They can, and are, going to null though.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8193 - 2016-12-21 10:22:33 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
@Dracvlad,
most of the people you know are quitting the game because of afk cloaking. Or thats what you say. But in your echo chamber of carebears that's what I'd expect you to hear. I also expect that the people leaving the wh are also bears, probably renting bears. So it's not that surprising they don't think its worth it the second the pve gets nerfed. As far as i can tell though, there is no mass exodus from wh's when it comes to the general population. Can you link me something reporting how everyone is leaving?

Dracvlad wrote:


WH players moaning about local in other game areas are some of the biggest jerks in the game period!


And what about null players moaning about local in other areas?

@Jerghul
Alphas aren't going to any dangerous space much. Not just wh's and null. It's not the lack of local, its simply that you can be shot at that keeps the majority of players (not just alphas) firmly in hi-sec. And an alpha that can't cloak, or fly t2, is even further out of it's comfort in wh's. Mass restrictions go against the noob blob and cloaking is almost essential for diving into wh's.

Do alphas have to go live in wh's? Not really. They can, and are, going to null though.


I have come across people giving up on null sec, finding hisec really boring and quitting the game, yep.

The people I know who left WH space were not bears and were always looking for fun fights, wrong again...

As far as you can tell, well of course you cannot count people as there is no local, silly that...

As for null sec players moaning about local, many are fixed into the lazyness of AFK cloaky camping and are affected by the lack of people doing stuff because of AFK cloaky camping.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8194 - 2016-12-21 12:17:35 UTC
So no link then?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8195 - 2016-12-21 12:22:11 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
So no link then?


So what am I supposed to link exactly, something on CREST perhaps? I had three different sets of mates all leave WH space due to the change to capital escalations, one of them had my help in moving out his dreads, the only people I know who are left in WH space is someone who does PI at this point which I find hilarious, just my circle of freinds by the way but highly amusing, take that as you will.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8196 - 2016-12-21 13:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Daichi
5% of the people involved in a null sec 0.5 trillion isk loss battle were alpha clones. Null-sec not yet accessible enough.

Removing AFKarebearing (afk cloaky camping) will help fix that issue along with an enhanced local that gives individual players access to real time information in numerous systems (duplicating or improving on alliance intel information).

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8197 - 2016-12-21 13:32:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


The people I know who left WH space were not bears and were always looking for fun fights, wrong again...


Dracvlad wrote:
I had three different sets of mates all leave WH space due to the change to capital escalations
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8198 - 2016-12-21 13:34:31 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Daichi
5% of the people involved in a null sec 0.5 trillion isk loss battle were alpha clones. Null-sec not yet accessible enough.

Removing AFKarebearing (afk cloaky camping) will help fix that issue along with an enhanced local that gives individual players access to real time information in numerous systems (duplicating or improving on alliance intel information).


You just wiped out the bulk of the solo/gang content in null.
Xcom
US Space Force
Black Rose.
#8199 - 2016-12-21 16:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
Wander Prian wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Ya cause feeding the troll camping your system will make him go away, nice try. I know your blind but I did point out it was during the over watch days. He had us all in his over watch list and knew we were less active in the US tz. What ended up happening was that we basically deprived him of content by never running mining sights and he got board and left. If we were stupid enough to leave ambushes and gotten him killed he would just use one of the other characters logged out in the system and gotten back in to camp us for far longer.


Well thank god the watchlist was removed then right? No more easy intel of who is online and who is not. Now he actually has to use his eyes, which means he has to leave his safespots

I know your not aware of the methods of getting rid of AFK cloakers. The best method is to deprive them of content. If everyone logged off and never logged back in no AFK cloaking would be needed. The stupid thing is that cloaking is so safe that the only method left for the defenders is literally that very action, log out or move till the AFK cloaker gets board. Give that cloaker some bait and arouse some interest and it will stick around for longer.

Cloaks in this game is by far the worst implementation of its kind. Nothing about it is balanced, exactly nothing. The second that cloak activates the game turns into a ****** invulnerability module. Its like having a rorqual turn that invon boost on indefinitely.

Local just makes it easier to spot the cloaked ships. But if local wasn't there cloaks would still be able to cloak in perfect safety.


You are aware that you are not invulnerable when cloaked? You do take damage. So bombs and smartbombs work.

That would require an approximate location of the cloaked ship, which is not possible as its cloaked and as of right now completely impossible to track. If that impossible were tweaked into improbable it would be fine. That would mean going AFK in a cloaked ship would be as stupid as going AFK in a safespot.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8200 - 2016-12-21 20:21:00 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Daichi
Well, the expectation that no local results in no one living there worked out wonderfully. Nerfing nullsec local would be activity suicide and entirely contrary to what CCP is trying to achieve. For wormhole space, you now have citadels for people to live in. I think OAs are also needed if that segment of space is to be viable. We will see.

Null-sec is very dangerous. PvE in null sec is a means to an end (it helps fund epic battles).

IF Empire gates, Then Empire local (bring player control of nullsec gates to the table and we can begin to talk about player control of intelligence).

And yepp. Alpha clone filtration into null sec and wormhole space is quite bad. So something needs to be done.

I would suggest a light local for wormhole space (OA type solution)
Enhanced local for k-space (something for individual pilots that is equal to or better than alliance intel channels)
And the end of AFKarebearing (afk cloaky camping).


There is no right or wrong way to play Eve. Nullsec is not only about epic battles. It's about all the fights, big and small. It's about living there, doing industry, running sites, building things, etc etc. You keep going like there is just one right way to play and all others are just wrong.

I won't even touch the rest of the content in the post due to the complete troll that it is.

Wormholer for life.