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Add missiles to Amarr Alpha clones
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-12-16 05:49:33 UTC
There is an entire line of Amarr ships which have mixed turret and launcher hardpoints:

  1. Magnate
  2. Dragoon
  3. Arbitrator
  4. Prophecy
  5. Armageddon


The Dragoon and Arbitrator in particular are a bit gimped without being able to use missiles, and those are alpha clone ships. The Minmatar alpha clones are allowed to train Drones to 5 and Light Drone Operation to 1, allowing all Minmatar cruisers piloted by alpha clones to launch a full flight of light combat drones.

I propose Amarr alpha clones be allowed to train Rockets and Light Missiles both to 1. Amarr alpha clones won't have any decent proficiency with missiles, but they'll at least be able to use their available launcher slots. This would also allow cruisers to fit Rapid Light Missile Launchers, but not any other medium launchers.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-12-16 05:50:47 UTC
want the full game? pay for it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-12-16 06:02:03 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
want the full game? pay for it

That's not an excuse for free-to-play to be unbalanced.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-12-16 06:04:53 UTC
that's exactly an excuse for free to play to be unbalanced... maybe if you could only make one toon or if every toon you made had to be the same race you would have a point but you get what you pay for

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2016-12-16 10:00:30 UTC
Prophecy and Geddon are irrelevant, as alphas can't fly them anyway.

The magnate isn't gimped without launchers. It's gimped beause it's an exploration frigate.
As both the Dragoon and the Arbitrator are drone boats, I don't see the need for adding launchers. At the most, you're looking at adding 15-20 dps from the unbonused launchers. Losing out on 15-20 dps is not gimped.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2016-12-16 10:22:58 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Prophecy and Geddon are irrelevant, as alphas can't fly them anyway.

The magnate isn't gimped without launchers. It's gimped beause it's an exploration frigate.
As both the Dragoon and the Arbitrator are drone boats, I don't see the need for adding launchers. At the most, you're looking at adding 15-20 dps from the unbonused launchers. Losing out on 15-20 dps is not gimped.


Not to mention their highs are normally filled with neuts

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#7 - 2016-12-16 13:56:12 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
want the full game? pay for it

That's not an excuse for free-to-play to be unbalanced.

Trials work like they work. Ugh

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-16 16:48:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Not to mention their highs are normally filled with neuts

The Arbitrator does not have any neut bonuses.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-12-16 17:01:13 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Not to mention their highs are normally filled with neuts

The Arbitrator does not have any neut bonuses.


The arbitrator doesn't have any missile bonuses, either. What's your point?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-12-16 17:09:53 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
The arbitrator doesn't have any missile bonuses, either. What's your point?

I can't properly maximize my space jewing with these ships if I can't put any launchers on them. With any other race, I could. My point is that it's unbalanced.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Iain Cariaba
#11 - 2016-12-16 17:17:39 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
The arbitrator doesn't have any missile bonuses, either. What's your point?

I can't properly maximize my space jewing with these ships if I can't put any launchers on them.
With any other race, I could. My point is that it's unbalanced.

If you want to maximize your space jewing, that's what Omegas are for.
No, you can't. Gallente doesn't get missiles skills for the Celestis, nor do Caldari or Minmatar get medium drones for their cruisers.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-12-16 19:34:32 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Not to mention their highs are normally filled with neuts

The Arbitrator does not have any neut bonuses.




.... neither does the Tristan yet you tend to find those with neuts in the highs as well

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-12-17 14:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Gallente doesn't get missiles skills for the Celestis, nor do Caldari or Minmatar get medium drones for their cruisers.

They still get light drones for their cruisers, and the Celestis has 3 high slots and 3 turret hardpoints so it doesn't have any empty weapon slots left over. Isn't light drones on a Bellicose about equivalent to light missiles on an Arbitrator? Both can fit even higher on an Omega clone, but one is clearly inferior to the other on the current Alpha clones.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
.... neither does the Tristan yet you tend to find those with neuts in the highs as well

Sure, in PVP. Neuts don't work at all in PVE, and NOSs barely work. So a PVE fit Dragoon or Arbitrator is gimped--which is gimping Amarr's entire drone boat lineup for Alpha clones in PVE fits. The Minmatar missile ships, the Breacher and Bellicose, are not relegated to only having PVP fits on alpha clones.


If you think this isn't gimping Amarr alpha clones for PVE just because they can fly laser boats instead, think again. Lasers are the only weapon system that is highly resisted by half of the PVE targets. If Amarr alpha pilots were in a corp holding lowsec or nullsec space in a region with Angel or Guristas rats, they'd have two choices for ratting in the area:
1.) fly a gimped drone boat which can't load missiles, and only loads a half rack of lasers (which don't hit the rats for much anyway)
2.) fly a laser boat which has even weaker drones, and loses a ton of its laser damage due to rat resistances

It's not like they can just put autocannons on instead. No other races' alpha clones have this issue, and it'd be reasonably patched over by letting Amarr alpha pilots use light missiles and rockets.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#14 - 2016-12-18 10:21:43 UTC
I refer my arbies sporting a rack of med and small neuts.
What they are and are not bonused for aside, which skills would you recommend be lowered so that light missiles, rockets, heavy missiles, hams, and varyibg levels of support skills be added?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-12-18 20:14:41 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
which skills would you recommend be lowered so that light missiles, rockets, heavy missiles, hams, and varyibg levels of support skills be added?

Nothing needs to be lowered, and no support skills should be added. My proposal was to allow Amarr (and maybe Gallente, too) to train Rockets and Light Missiles both to level 1. This would match with Caldari and Minmatar's ability to train Light Drone Operation to 1.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."