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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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CCP, how about a clone insurance service

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2012-01-19 18:37:09 UTC
CCP, I believe there is a small, but growing segment of the Eve population that may be averse to PvP not so much from losing a ship, but losing a clone.

We can insure ships, why not clones and perhaps even implants?

Case in point.
Assume I am whizzing about in a Hurricane fully fit, that may top out at 40M.
Eventually the ship pops. Big deal. I have it insured and get a sizable amount of that loss back.

But say I get podded as well. My implantless med clone is now in excess of 20M.
The financial loss of the pod is more than the loss of the insured Cane and its modules.

I would suggest that if people could insure their med clones, you might seen an uptick in PvP.
If you allowed people to insure their clone AND implants, even at some reduced value, I am SURE you would see an uptick in PvP.

And for those that say this will create inflation, as we create another ISK faucet, that is crap.
The ISK that can be returned from a insured loss can always be altered to be less than the overall investment in insurance.

The concept is to mitigate the clone/implant losses, and encourage more PvP.
It is not to make PvP completely free of financial loss.
Jorn Isu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-19 18:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorn Isu
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP, I believe there is a small, but growing segment of the Eve population that may be averse to PvP not so much from losing a ship, but losing a clone.

We can insure ships, why not clones and perhaps even implants?

Case in point.
Assume I am whizzing about in a Hurricane fully fit, that may top out at 40M.
Eventually the ship pops. Big deal. I have it insured and get a sizable amount of that loss back.

But say I get podded as well. My implantless med clone is now in excess of 20M.
The financial loss of the pod is more than the loss of the insured Cane and its modules.

I would suggest that if people could insure their med clones, you might seen an uptick in PvP.
If you allowed people to insure their clone AND implants, even at some reduced value, I am SURE you would see an uptick in PvP.

And for those that say this will create inflation, as we create another ISK faucet, that is crap.
The ISK that can be returned from a insured loss can always be altered to be less than the overall investment in insurance.

The concept is to mitigate the clone/implant losses, and encourage more PvP.
It is not to make PvP completely free of financial loss.
The problem, as I see it, is making said insurance less of a no-brainer than insuring tech 1 ships currently is. Otherwise, they might as well just lower the med clone price (something I wouldn't disagree with)
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#3 - 2012-01-19 18:53:13 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP, I believe there is a small, but growing segment of the Eve population that may be averse to PvP not so much from losing a ship, but losing a clone.

We can insure ships, why not clones and perhaps even implants?

Case in point.
Assume I am whizzing about in a Hurricane fully fit, that may top out at 40M.
Eventually the ship pops. Big deal. I have it insured and get a sizable amount of that loss back.

But say I get podded as well. My implantless med clone is now in excess of 20M.
The financial loss of the pod is more than the loss of the insured Cane and its modules.

I would suggest that if people could insure their med clones, you might seen an uptick in PvP.
If you allowed people to insure their clone AND implants, even at some reduced value, I am SURE you would see an uptick in PvP.

And for those that say this will create inflation, as we create another ISK faucet, that is crap.
The ISK that can be returned from a insured loss can always be altered to be less than the overall investment in insurance.

The concept is to mitigate the clone/implant losses, and encourage more PvP.
It is not to make PvP completely free of financial loss.


don't pvp with implants you can't afford to lose
make a jump clone for combat
if you are using implants for an edge in pvp then most certainly, hell no!
You take the risk and you reap the reward, there's no "welp that didn't work, but at least I got my implants back"
marttelo
Ace Industries
#4 - 2012-01-19 19:34:12 UTC
@morganta : i think u must have little sp to say such a thing, come back and comment when u have well over 120m sp
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-01-19 19:36:45 UTC
marttelo wrote:
@morganta : i think u must have little sp to say such a thing, come back and comment when u have well over 120m sp


If you have that much sp the clone price shouldn't be much of a problem for you

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
seany1212
M Y S T
#6 - 2012-01-19 19:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: seany1212
marttelo wrote:
@morganta : i think u must have little sp to say such a thing, come back and comment when u have well over 120m sp


Come back and comment when a 120million sp character is unable to produce the isk for a new clone...

EDIT: damn you surfin :P
Atticus Lowa
Lowa Corp Industries and Security
#7 - 2012-01-19 20:26:34 UTC
no i always fancied a small-scale implant insurance service that i would run... but you know trust and all...

actually im grinding lai dai standing so i can start obtaining jump clones, partly because i feel it helps with specialiation... you know one for mining one for PVE one for PVP... etc.

but no losing your implants in PVP is part of the thrill and danger, i get what your saying though.
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
#8 - 2012-01-19 20:27:03 UTC
Honestly, I think clone insurance is ripe for a player owned service/corp.

A player corp could offer insurance on a player's pod and the payout (and monthly charge) would be based on what implants are installed when the insurance contract is issued. Now that pod-kills show implants, an API verified lossmail would be enough to prove loss.

Lets say Joe has a pod worth ~100M ISK. Based on pilot location (highsec, lowsec, 0.0) a monthly charge would be calculated. Joe lives in lowsec, so the monthly charge would be 25M ISK for a 75M ISK payout. However, for each pod loss, the monthly fee of re-insuring a new pod will go up unless you were a customer long enough to have your monthly payments overtake the loss payout. (In this case, 3+ months w/o a pod loss.)

in 0.0 the monthly rate would be much higher. In empire, much lower (depending on corp in hisec).

Yes, this is just a new form of bank/scheme in Eve, however if done properly, it could net the insuring corp a ton of cash and a lot of trust. (Assuming they actually make prompt payouts and no one nukes the corp wallet.)
ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9 - 2012-01-19 20:31:51 UTC
Thread moved to Features and Ideas section.

ISD Eshtir

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons

Interstellar Services Department
Ai Shun
#10 - 2012-01-19 20:34:19 UTC
Joe SMASH wrote:
Honestly, I think clone insurance is ripe for a player owned service/corp.


I would take this a step further. Remove Insurance completely and allow for Corporations to bid on Insurance licenses. Allow these corps to, within CONCORD governance in Empire space, offer a wide variety of insurance products; ranging from cargo, ships, implants, clones or any asset.

Bring some competition into that market.
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
#11 - 2012-01-19 20:35:08 UTC
ISD Eshtir wrote:
Thread moved to Features and Ideas section.


Oh great... where good and decent threads go to die.

ISD mods are over-zealous babies.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#12 - 2012-01-19 21:05:14 UTC
Joe SMASH wrote:
ISD Eshtir wrote:
Thread moved to Features and Ideas section.


Oh great... where good and decent threads go to die.

ISD mods are over-zealous babies.


Sad and true.
This is the forum that CCP dumps stuff they don't want to look at.
Ai Shun
#13 - 2012-01-19 21:17:15 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Joe SMASH wrote:
ISD Eshtir wrote:
Thread moved to Features and Ideas section.


Oh great... where good and decent threads go to die.

ISD mods are over-zealous babies.


Sad and true.
This is the forum that CCP dumps stuff they don't want to look at.


Actually, if you scan the threads here you will see there are regulars that frequent this area. The discussions here tend to be a lot more realistic and analytical; thought out if you like. There is far less of the relentless trolling from GD.

This also provides CCP with a useful avenue to scan through ideas, rather than sifting through the morass of trolling and penis that is GD.

Note the rather extensive sticky at the top of frequently suggested features as well.

All in all?

Best place to put a Feature / Idea is here if you actually want a sensible, useful discussion and to bring it to CCP's direct attention.

So - you can carry on discussing the idea; or whine that it has been moved here. Your choice.
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
#14 - 2012-01-20 16:35:26 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Joe SMASH wrote:
ISD Eshtir wrote:
Thread moved to Features and Ideas section.


Oh great... where good and decent threads go to die.

ISD mods are over-zealous babies.


Sad and true.
This is the forum that CCP dumps stuff they don't want to look at.


Actually, if you scan the threads here you will see there are regulars that frequent this area. The discussions here tend to be a lot more realistic and analytical; thought out if you like. There is far less of the relentless trolling from GD.

This also provides CCP with a useful avenue to scan through ideas, rather than sifting through the morass of trolling and ***** that is GD.

Note the rather extensive sticky at the top of frequently suggested features as well.

All in all?

Best place to put a Feature / Idea is here if you actually want a sensible, useful discussion and to bring it to CCP's direct attention.

So - you can carry on discussing the idea; or whine that it has been moved here. Your choice.


I rest my case. 8 posts in 2h in GD, good ones for most part. Only 1 (relevant to subject) since move.

Face it, F&ID is where good threads go to be ignored and the terrible ISD mods are making the forums worse.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#15 - 2012-01-20 16:45:31 UTC
in comparison to T1 combat ships, good implants are a luxury. So you have to pay for that luxury, noone else.
That is absolutely fine.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#16 - 2012-01-20 17:07:48 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
in comparison to T1 combat ships, good implants are a luxury. So you have to pay for that luxury, noone else.
That is absolutely fine.


My Med clone is no luxury.
That is an absolute key item, and costs more than the loss from an Insured T1 BC.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#17 - 2012-01-20 17:20:26 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
in comparison to T1 combat ships, good implants are a luxury. So you have to pay for that luxury, noone else.
That is absolutely fine.


My Med clone is no luxury.
That is an absolute key item, and costs more than the loss from an Insured T1 BC.


like someone already pointed out, if you cant pay for your clone, you are doing something wrong.
clone/imp costs are an important ISK sin and shouldt not be removed or nerfed.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#18 - 2012-01-20 17:29:08 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
in comparison to T1 combat ships, good implants are a luxury. So you have to pay for that luxury, noone else.
That is absolutely fine.


My Med clone is no luxury.
That is an absolute key item, and costs more than the loss from an Insured T1 BC.


like someone already pointed out, if you cant pay for your clone, you are doing something wrong.
clone/imp costs are an important ISK sin and shouldt not be removed or nerfed.


I am seriously looking at moving into a group/area where I expect to get podded twice a day.
I plan on using small ships to mitigate the costs.

But I am still faced with 40M/day in med clone costs daily. That is 1.2 BILLION in med clones every month.
That includes no ships, no ship modules, nothing.

That is no small number.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#19 - 2012-01-20 18:55:23 UTC

I personally think the cost of clones is just out of balance...

The benefits of more skillpoints provide a linear benefit for an exponentially more skillpoints...

Why must the cost of maintaining skillpoints also increase exponentially? That's a double hit in my mind.

A more fair price would only increase linearly with skillpoints.

To put it more succinctly, since in the benefits of skillpoints decrease exponentially, keeping a linear cost to maintaining skillpoints still adhere's to EvE's diminishing returns paradigm. Rebalance the cost of clones accordingly.
RedLion
State Constructions
#20 - 2012-02-22 23:02:41 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I personally think the cost of clones is just out of balance...

The benefits of more skillpoints provide a linear benefit for an exponentially more skillpoints...

Why must the cost of maintaining skillpoints also increase exponentially? That's a double hit in my mind.

A more fair price would only increase linearly with skillpoints.

To put it more succinctly, since in the benefits of skillpoints decrease exponentially, keeping a linear cost to maintaining skillpoints still adhere's to EvE's diminishing returns paradigm. Rebalance the cost of clones accordingly.

I agree with this. I think clone cost is way too high when you get to the later end of exponential curve.

I actually think it's a bit disgusting if CCP tries to get veterans to get lower SP alts to get more subs. I can't see any gameplay reason for higher clones being that much more expensive.