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ABILITY TO CHANGE GENDERS
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morion
Lighting Build
#41 - 2016-12-13 15:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
How are men properly going to learn to break thru there glass ceiling.

By allowing identification alterations and letting them join,

the oppressive and dominant master gender.
Kristal Rova
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2016-12-13 18:14:35 UTC

In eve you get consequences of your life in the game. So you never can change your name..
Why can permit change the gender if you have to stay with the same name?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2016-12-13 20:36:49 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Mrs Always Right wrote:

Exactly that. SInce it would have no impact at all, shouldn't it be implemented?


Not necessarily. In my line of work there is a mantra that goes 'effort must be equitable'. Which means don't waste time on the small things unless the effort to do it is even smaller.


Personally, I don't have an issue with it being available, but I expect Daichi's point is why it won't be - there's not enough of a market of people who would actually use it to make it worth CCP's effort to divert dev time to implementing it.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2016-12-13 20:38:31 UTC
AlexHalstead wrote:
Lore wise it isn't that HARD to do because we are all CLONES in EVE. Swapping one body for a different clone body providing its brain morphology is same.


I suggest revisiting the definition of clone.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Lugh Crow-Slave
#45 - 2016-12-13 20:41:19 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
politics and real life morals should not dictate what limits people have in the game.



... give me one time this has ever been the case? politics and morals have always deemed what is and what is not acceptable to allow into a game


And yet, EVE is full of people running around killing other players for the sport. So trying to use a moral code to justify one aspect of the game doesn't work when the whole game is people lieing, cheating, stealing and killing.



soooo if moral code is no longer a reason to toss things out why can't i make my toon nude

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#46 - 2016-12-13 20:46:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
soooo if moral code is no longer a reason to toss things out why can't i make my toon nude

NO NUDES! Pleasure Bots operate with a degree of mystery in the boudoir.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
ChosenIamto Bowyoushall
TranquilState
#47 - 2016-12-13 22:01:48 UTC
we should have a gender change clinic moduel for ciutadels and this can only be done down a dark alley way surgery in null sec... and the dna for parts should get donated from other players corpses.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2016-12-14 13:38:23 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
I don't see a reason this shouldn't be part of the resculpt item in the NEX already.

After all, character gender has literally zero gameplay effects outside of determining which space clothes you can use.

Might sell more resculpts that way.


to lazy to re-type


Yet they already sell resculpts. Your point is invalidated for this reason.


nothing in the re-sculpt is anyplace near as psychologically impactive as gender


You interact differently with female avatar than you do with male ones? Or do you imply the character's controller will be impacted?
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#49 - 2016-12-15 02:32:51 UTC
Kristal Rova wrote:

In eve you get consequences of your life in the game. So you never can change your name..
Why can permit change the gender if you have to stay with the same name?



Because in practice it is no more impactful to gameplay interactions with other players than clothing, hairstyle, qualifty of character portrait lighting, or boob size.

This is a really weird line in the sand for people to draw in a video game. "It's OK that I can change by skin tone and entire appearance, but GENDER is too far" is a standpoint that doesn't make sense to me. Its a video game.

This isn't some ethics decision based in your real world views of identity politics or religious dogma here. It's simply a matter of player model options in a game where your player model means VERY little in a social sense.

The only possible valid argument against it is that clothing is designed specifically for one or the other gender model, and thus allowing the ability to change gender could allow players to seek cheaper clothing. Which, again, I'm not seeing a problem with.
Kolinthia Lincoln
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2016-12-15 16:44:37 UTC
No because it changes the identity of the character, which is a vital aspect of EVE. If they allow gender changes, then people will be up in arms about changing names, because they don't want to be a muscular scarred merc named Candy Panties. Maybe people should spend more time creating their characters.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#51 - 2016-12-15 16:53:53 UTC
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:
No because it changes the identity of the character, which is a vital aspect of EVE. If they allow gender changes, then people will be up in arms about changing names, because they don't want to be a muscular scarred merc named Candy Panties. Maybe people should spend more time creating their characters.


/me attempts to balance on this slippery slope.

--Acrobatic Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Kolinthia Lincoln
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-12-15 17:47:09 UTC
Actually it could work... but they would need to make large penalties to avoid abuse. Such as costing AUR and resetting your reputations, LP and standings with all npc corps and factions to 0. It would also have to show the history in your API. Really I don't see why there's a need given how little an impact your character appearance has on gameplay. We did just fine for years without even being able to change our portraits.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#53 - 2016-12-15 18:14:13 UTC
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:
Actually it could work... but they would need to make large penalties to avoid abuse.


What abuse?

If someone wants to change their gender seven times this week... let them, so long as they are willing to pay the price for the change.

The name will stay the same. Their corp or alliance information is untouched. If they have clothing that doesn't fit anymore, they can sell them or keep them. Also, the character history stays the same, and any notes or contact information another player has on the gender-swapper will stay the same.


Where is this presumed abuse?

Not allowing an individual to play the artsy bit that is the RPG part of EvE, as noted in EvE's own advertising...
Quote:
Play EVE Online For Free - #1 Massively Multiplayer RPG‎

...makes no sense.

I can only assume the the devs just haven't gotten there yet. That's fine. Allocation of resources I can understand. However many of the counter points (when even given) have nothing to do resources, and more with something else.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#54 - 2016-12-15 18:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
I don't see a reason this shouldn't be part of the resculpt item in the NEX already.

After all, character gender has literally zero gameplay effects outside of determining which space clothes you can use.

Might sell more resculpts that way.


to lazy to re-type


Yet they already sell resculpts. Your point is invalidated for this reason.


nothing in the re-sculpt is anyplace near as psychologically impactive as gender


You interact differently with female avatar than you do with male ones? Or do you imply the character's controller will be impacted?



people physiologically interact differently with them particularly if they don't know them.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kolinthia Lincoln
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2016-12-15 19:26:37 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:
Actually it could work... but they would need to make large penalties to avoid abuse.


What abuse?

If someone wants to change their gender seven times this week... let them, so long as they are willing to pay the price for the change.

The name will stay the same. Their corp or alliance information is untouched. If they have clothing that doesn't fit anymore, they can sell them or keep them. Also, the character history stays the same, and any notes or contact information another player has on the gender-swapper will stay the same.


Where is this presumed abuse?

Not allowing an individual to play the artsy bit that is the RPG part of EvE, as noted in EvE's own advertising...
Quote:
Play EVE Online For Free - #1 Massively Multiplayer RPG‎

...makes no sense.

I can only assume the the devs just haven't gotten there yet. That's fine. Allocation of resources I can understand. However many of the counter points (when even given) have nothing to do resources, and more with something else.

--Gadget


As mentioned in my previous post name changes would have to come with it because everyone would complain that it breaks immersion to have a male character with a female name or a female character with a male name and that if they're paying money to have their characters gender changed they should have the ability to give it a proper name - which then allows people to scrub their reputation or infamy. However if they then make the gender change feature free, then people will have no reason to purchase AUR to change their features. And suddenly New Eden will be filled with gender fluid avatars.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#56 - 2016-12-15 19:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:


As mentioned in my previous post name changes would have to come with it because everyone would complain that it breaks immersion to have a male character with a female name or a female character with a male name and that if they're paying money to have their characters gender changed they should have the ability to give it a proper name - which then allows people to scrub their reputation or infamy.

That's the slippery slope logic I was referring to earlier.

Quote:
However if they then make the gender change feature free, then people will have no reason to purchase AUR to change their features. And suddenly New Eden will be filled with gender fluid avatars.

More of the same.

The point is to discuss changing a character's gender. If this odd speculation is what you're considering abuse, then I'd like to point out that CCP is extremely stubborn about not allowing name changes (Alpha re-names not withstanding).
Names and gender are two separate things that are not necessarily linked. And while it is likely that some might want to change their name AND gender (like when a character is purchased?) CCP could simply allow one and not the other.

Gender in a video game, to many, should be treated like any other clothing. Change it out when you get bored.
As for other players... don't gender stereotype and HTFU when someone changes their avatar's clothes...

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Iracham
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-12-15 23:28:54 UTC
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:
Actually it could work... but they would need to make large penalties to avoid abuse.


What abuse?

If someone wants to change their gender seven times this week... let them, so long as they are willing to pay the price for the change.

The name will stay the same. Their corp or alliance information is untouched. If they have clothing that doesn't fit anymore, they can sell them or keep them. Also, the character history stays the same, and any notes or contact information another player has on the gender-swapper will stay the same.


Where is this presumed abuse?

Not allowing an individual to play the artsy bit that is the RPG part of EvE, as noted in EvE's own advertising...
Quote:
Play EVE Online For Free - #1 Massively Multiplayer RPG‎

...makes no sense.

I can only assume the the devs just haven't gotten there yet. That's fine. Allocation of resources I can understand. However many of the counter points (when even given) have nothing to do resources, and more with something else.

--Gadget


As mentioned in my previous post name changes would have to come with it because everyone would complain that it breaks immersion to have a male character with a female name or a female character with a male name and that if they're paying money to have their characters gender changed they should have the ability to give it a proper name - which then allows people to scrub their reputation or infamy. However if they then make the gender change feature free, then people will have no reason to purchase AUR to change their features. And suddenly New Eden will be filled with gender fluid avatars.


As I mentioned earlier, in my particular case, I do not want to change the name of my avatar to go with a desired gender change, although I am changing both IRL.

There are already a number of "male characters with a female name" and vice versa, as well as no mechanism preventing them from being made in the future.

Also, I don't see anyone particularly interested in gender changes being "free" - I'd personally be fine with spending a resculpt or equivalent to do it (I'd actually be willing to spend more, but I have a more vested psychological interest in doing so, whereas CCP would need to select a viable price point if they were going to make this a regularly available product.)
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#58 - 2016-12-15 23:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Kolinthia Lincoln wrote:
Actually it could work... but they would need to make large penalties to avoid abuse. Such as costing AUR and resetting your reputations, LP and standings with all npc corps and factions to 0. It would also have to show the history in your API. Really I don't see why there's a need given how little an impact your character appearance has on gameplay. We did just fine for years without even being able to change our portraits.


Why?

Unlike gender, character name and histories actually DO matter in terms of permanent decision points and a record of relationships with other entities in the game, both NPC and player corp. There is no reason to start allowing people to change character names, and there's also nothing in place to prevent the creation of "male" names on "female" characters or vice versa already so there's no logical standing for anyone to demand a name change.

If people are doing a gender change they're already doing it knowing full well that name changes are not a thing in EVE for very good reasons.

Gender simply doesn't matter any more than hairstyle.

Point here is since they already offer an item for AUR that can completely change the appearance of your character (literally resculpting every body and facial parameter) that a gender swap is a logical addition to that item.

There is literally no more potential for abuse than the existing resculpt, or "pay to win" boots and pants. Your portrait looks different. whoopdee doo. It changes nothing of mechanical significance that is abusable.
Deckel
Island Paradise
#59 - 2016-12-16 07:30:30 UTC
The new master race: Becoming Androgynous

The future where there is cloning and biological manipulation of all sorts genders wouldn't really need to come into the picture anyway. Therefore I support the ability to change sex, however not from male to female or vice versa, but from male or female to becoming Androgynous, and neither male or female. This means your pilot either accepts who they are or can choose to lose their sexual identity.
Kolinthia Lincoln
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-12-16 20:29:00 UTC
Deckel wrote:
The new master race: Becoming Androgynous

The future where there is cloning and biological manipulation of all sorts genders wouldn't really need to come into the picture anyway. Therefore I support the ability to change sex, however not from male to female or vice versa, but from male or female to becoming Androgynous, and neither male or female. This means your pilot either accepts who they are or can choose to lose their sexual identity.


That's about as pointless as adding a voice to your character that no one will ever hear. In fact, aside from choosing a gender in the character creation screen, gender isn't mentioned at all anywhere else.