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Ships & Modules

 
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Ship and fitting price/performance, some observations

Author
Symbolic Frank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-12-14 22:48:55 UTC
Just about everyone can spend billions a day, obviously. Because they recommend the most expensive ships, with fittings that are a multiple of the price of the (uninsurable) hull. Ask for a cheap, low skill points mission runner, and the advice will be to spend hundreds of millions on a hull, and at least a billion on the modules, which they cannot even fit.

That is very weird. Especially because everyone tells you: "Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose!" The only reasonable explanation is that everyone has billions to burn out of their pocket money. Everyone is an extremely rich, long-term veteran, it seems.

Or, perhaps we have the miners that very rarely visit the forum, and the PVPers who do, and who buy multiple PLEX each month. That would also explain, that most forum posters demand PvP and loathe the 80% Carebears who create all their stuff and provide their gank targets.

Ok, so 80% of the people mine for a living and buy the PLEX the other 20% spend on PvP.


Anyway, if I am looking for a fitting or way to do something, it is very rare that I can find one. I have to experiment myself. Because I have less than a billion, if I would sell everything. And I am only now training the skills to lvl 4 that take many days to do so.

Which is perhaps a good thing, because I tend to get bored with things pretty fast.


Then again, PvP advice for the multi-billionair is easy to find.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-12-14 23:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
you need to train your "observation skill to lvl 4" before speaking.

- every good alliance have his own forum with fits/tactics for every specific job, pve side too.
- on the eve forum there are 2 section where you can obtain those infos: Ships&Modules and Missions&Complexes
- google is your friend: there are a shittons of guides on internet
- youtube is your friend: there are a shittons of videos on it, with guides and fits (pve speaking obviously)
- reddit.... well is reddit.

as far as i know every request of a pve fits has always found an answer on this forum.
edit: i forgot to add that often the fits posted are t2 fits, so cheap ones

dunno man.... do you need help?
erg cz
ErgoDron
#3 - 2016-12-15 10:15:22 UTC
OP is speaking about PVE, so here is a couple of PvE things I would remember:
Low skill mission runner is Gnosis. Passive tanked for L2 missions, active tanked for L3 missions, not used in L4 mission.
Passive tank is elementary - shield extenders, two mission specific shield hardeners and one adaptive invulerability
[Gnosis, passive mission runner]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Imperial Navy Acolyte x5
Imperial Navy Infiltrator x5
Mjolnir Heavy Missile x4000
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile x1000

Important is you always check eve-survival side to find out what are triggers and what damage type to tank / apply. Fit, posted here is against drones / amarr / blood raiders rat, for example. You will have to use different drones, missiles and hardeners for serpentis.

Active tank for L3 mission can look like that:
[Gnosis, PVE Serpentis]
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
AE-K Compact Drone Damage Amplifier
Co-Processor II

10MN Afterburner II
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
Large Cap Battery II
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5
Federation Navy Hammerhead x5
Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Missile x1000

For L4 mission you will really need battleship. Not because you can not do them in battle cruiser (som missions are doable even in attack frigate) but because your isk/hour effectivity will be crap. L4 mission runner for poor is sniping Dominix:
[Dominix, L4 4 guns cheap]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Optical Compact Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Radio L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II
Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Garde II x5
Curator II x5
or other drones according to mission rats

You drop MTU, jump away from NPC and use your bonus for range to apply constant DPS (about 100 km optimal with most drones) and use range tank to mitigate the incomming damage. Guns are there to clean smaller targets cause frigates will burn to you 100 + km with 0 transversal.
But to be good in L4 missioning you need Rattlesnake (full clean), Machariel (blitz) or maradeurs (except Kronos).
Symbolic Frank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-12-15 13:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Symbolic Frank
Thanks.

I'm pretty good with drones, and I did have a Dominix. But I couldn't afford to replace it, so I sold it.

I'm using a sniper Vexor with Wardens (no Warden II, that will take me 25 days more skill training). It costs 20 million in total.

[Vexor, Vexor]
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
'Refuge' Adaptive Nano Plating I
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Damage Control I

Drone Navigation Computer I
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Sensor Booster I

Salvager I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Core Probe Launcher I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x2
Salvage Drone I x3
Warden I x3

Tracking Speed Script x1
Combat Scanner Probe I x8
Core Scanner Probe I x16
Targeting Range Script x1

I can afford to replace that. I also invested in the blueprints of most of that (the Vexor BPO was expensive) and bought a Procurer to mine the minerals required. With 50k EHP, it is my "safest" ship.

For the more difficult things I bought a sniper Vexor Navy Issue, but it's expensive at 80 million ISK, and I'm not sure how gank-worthy it is. So I rarely use it.

I did buy a few PLEX a few years ago, but the money ran out fast. So now I'm doing it cheap.

I was also looking at Covert Ops stuff, but they're expensive as well. Ok, cheaper than a Gnosis. Which is a nice ship, but I would need regular PLEX injections to afford flying it.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#5 - 2016-12-15 13:26:39 UTC
My Raven was equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#6 - 2016-12-15 14:07:43 UTC
All the EVE Uni fits are cheap and most work for me. Maybe you are just asking the wrong players.
Vrarrg
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2016-12-15 15:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vrarrg
If someone is telling you that you need to fit with blingy mods all the time. Then they are either trolling or trying to get you to fly something shiny so they can kill you. T2 fits or even named mod fits work just as well otherwise they wouldn't be used. Sure there are reasons to used the expensive stuff. But if you want cheap and affordable while being efficient you have tons of options for most ships. If you have certain requirements as well like cost then mention that on here. Don't let people make you think you need to fly the "best of the best" to play. Also a lot of players including vets don't have lots of isk to spend. I know people who have played since 2006 and never seen a Bill unless they have sold a PLEX. Don't get in the mind set that the bigger and more exspensive something is the better it is.

Just my advice
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2016-12-15 17:37:18 UTC
Being rich is ALWAYS a perception based concept.
For many players, if they have a job, 1 or 2 hours work will afford them a PLEX for 19.95.
If you game for a month, or buy a months worth of ships and fittings with that, it starts to feel like a pretty cheap investment.
A LOT of bang for your buck, (literally).

If you don't have a job. It is possible to earn hundreds of millions of ISK per day. Just doing level 3 missions.

When people suggest blingy fits, it's usually because they understand the cost tradeoff to be worth it.
Faster missions, safer ships, more ISK per hour.
Symbolic Frank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-12-15 18:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Symbolic Frank
Looking at the price/performance, T2 is about 5-10 times as expensive as T1, for a 5-10 percent improvement. It also requires lots of skill points. T4 and faction is generally a bit worse and yet again 5-10 times more expensive, but it doesn't require all those skill points. And then there is the high-end pirate stuff, that is again 10-1000 times as expensive, but these are often up to 50% better than everything else.

I am skilling up for T2, but it takes many months. They also tend to require more CPU/power, which requires even more skill points. And I do use some T4 mods if it makes the tank better and/or if a T1 or T2 doesn't fit, and if I can get them cheap.

I do have the tech skills to manufacture T2 drones reasonably efficient, so I do use those. More DPS is often better than more tank.


Further, if you keep your distance (90-100 km) and snipe with sentries, not much will hit you. If something tries to, I'll orbit one of the sentries, but it is rarely needed. And if they do get close, I have light / medium drones. I might use Gardes and/or heavies, if they fitted in the drone bay, depending.

The salvager is for targets that are too high level for the salvage drones. While my drone skills are pretty good, it would take me months just to finish everything but the fighters. I do that in between skilling for new ships / equipment.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-12-15 18:31:22 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
When people suggest blingy fits, it's usually because they understand the cost tradeoff to be worth it.
Faster missions, safer ships, more ISK per hour.


Or they have a ganking alt/alts sitting on the Jita undock and are looking for a payout. This is more common than some people on these forums realize.
Kolinthia Lincoln
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-12-15 19:56:54 UTC
Majority of my mission ships are exclusively t2 fit. Occasionally I use some faction modules if I have CPU, PG or cap issues but never anything that makes me any more of a target. With decent skills good fits are pretty easy to make with t2 and the ISK vs Return for many faction modules just isn't worth it.

Also for missioning it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend 2bn ISK on a ship and fittings if you're never going to earn 2bn ISK doing missions with it. Cause let's face it, most people don't do missions because their fun the 643rd time.
Tatanka Startamer
Rio Nova
#12 - 2016-12-15 22:01:10 UTC
Symbolic Frank wrote:
Looking at the price/performance, T2 is about 5-10 times as expensive as T1, for a 5-10 percent improvement. It also requires lots of skill points.


While mostly true, the cost of T2 mods relative to how quickly you can make ISK, is still not a big deal even for a casual player, and even an alpha.

The faction/officer mods are another matter entirely ;)

Tat
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#13 - 2016-12-16 08:59:48 UTC
Symbolic Frank wrote:
Looking at the price/performance, T2 is about 5-10 times as expensive as T1, for a 5-10 percent improvement. It also requires lots of skill points. T4 and faction is generally a bit worse and yet again 5-10 times more expensive, but it doesn't require all those skill points. And then there is the high-end pirate stuff, that is again 10-1000 times as expensive, but these are often up to 50% better than everything else.



T2

Some T2 mods (weapons) offer features T1 and faction does not , Like T2 ammo which has way better range/damage. T2 mods are so cheap that even though T1 are cheaper the extra DPS/Tank ect pays off the mods really quickly.

Faction


In many cases Faction has better fitting than T2 or even Meta fitting mods. If you need to fit a mod sometimes its the only option. Also in some cases fitting a faction mod is the difference between life and death (IE PVP with scrams or points, if you can stay out further than your Enemies T2 point you have a great chance to get the kill or make it out alive)

Some faction mods are very cheap, don't just ignore them because they are green, faction hardeners are pretty cheap, faction resistive plating (even DS ones) are sometimes way cheaper than T2.

DS

If you have money to spend and want to be the best DS is the way to go. In some cases they are the only way to do things (IE T2 shield boosters are rubbish and if you want to run higher end sites you might not be able to tank with T2, if its the difference between running a site and not sometimes the cost is worth it)

Officer

Don't fit these, they are just for showing off and in many cases are not much (If at all) better than DS. (Get them if they are cheaper than the DS equivalent)


All of that being said most people on the forums will list T2 fits if you ask for them. Don't say things like "What the best ship/fit for X" And expect a T1 fit. You have to be specific and ignore the trolls who post things that are not applicable.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2016-12-18 01:39:25 UTC
So I've been pondering this one. OP seems to be linking things together in weird ways.

There are two kinds of ship fits out there: 1) those that are meant to be lost and 2) those that aren't. PvP ships will be lost. PvE ships really shouldn't be.

You do see some incredibly expensive PvE ships posted once in awhile -- I throw a few around from time to time. No one is seriously recommending purple, but blue and green seem like they're fair game if they make a ship better at a PvE task. Not everyone does it -- and I don't do it consistently -- but when I remember I try to recommend where downgrades are an option, where they aren't, and why. Most people will do the same when prompted.

PvP setups don't tend to be as expensive. Unless you're engaging in honourable solo combat with all that entails, T2 or lower fits seem to be the norm. Yes, people occasionally throw something out with a faction scram or some such but if you push back on that, as above, they'll either justify the choice or tell you to downgrade. You sure as hell shouldn't be throwing 1bil isk at a PvP ship without knowing why.
Symbolic Frank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-12-19 18:38:30 UTC
Well, while doing missions, I do have to be in low-sec regularly. I scout first. But I still I wouldn't take my bling-bling PvE ship there, if there was a cheaper alternative.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2016-12-19 19:09:21 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
When people suggest blingy fits, it's usually because they understand the cost tradeoff to be worth it.
Faster missions, safer ships, more ISK per hour.


Or they have a ganking alt/alts sitting on the Jita undock and are looking for a payout. This is more common than some people on these forums realize.

It's exactly as common as I realise, jita is a pit.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#17 - 2016-12-19 19:11:46 UTC
Symbolic Frank wrote:
Just about everyone can spend billions a day, obviously......


Wait what? Where did you hear that? I most certainly cannot and I can show you fits that don't cost as much and are still effective at their job.

I am just not doing it because you are supposed to figure your ships out yourself.

If CCP hasn't forgotten about it, they started to rebalance all the modules in EVE, so you will have useful ones whenever you loot something.
I have been collecting prop mods, long points, scrams, everything that has been rebalanced. They cost me the time to pick them up and I put them on expandable ships.
And since I do pvp, I spend less time making isk, so my options are limited and I do not have billions to spare.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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