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Are we just a meat for the grinder?

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-12-13 01:34:08 UTC
Grr, head hurts but I gotta at least pitch in a bit.

1) Why do you think there would be EASY ways to make tons of isk . . . enough say to be omega without paying? CCP wants to pay their 300+ employees.

2) Yes, you can be useful IF you are willing to make an effort.

3) depends on a ton of circumstances including fleet comp etc. Sometimes you will die. Ships are expendable assets, after all. Other timers logi or counter detection or just running away will save your hide.

4) Lots of ways to make isk, Not all of them are mining and missions.

If you look like meat you will be treated like meat and into the grinder you go. So yes, some of you are meat for the grinder. Some will come out the better for it, learn something from it. Others will turn around and line up to go through the grinder again.

which will you choose?

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2016-12-13 10:59:24 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Don't expect to be told to win the competition by your competitors. You will have to use your own brain to find riches in EVE.

While this is very good advice that you should not expect your competition to help you in your efforts to try and beat them, Eve is known for it's helpful community and frequently you can get help from your competitors. It depends more on your attitude though. If you act whinny and entitled you will get no help. If you put forth effort and ask constructive questions you often will get help.

Case in point is that if you get blown up in low sec and convo the pilot and ask him how you could have piloted better or otherwise made his job more difficult you can sometimes get some good advice from the pilot that just blew you up and likely plans to hunt you again.

Kenny Frighand wrote:
Thanks for everybody for the replies, they are helpful indeed but i want to ask some question regarding the accessibility of income resources.
They are mostly located in low-sec. It is possible to get there without getting blown up for a newbie, but how to remain here enough time to get "small fortune" (5-10 million ISKs at least) without getting combat probed, dropped on and killed, and when we are talking about low-sec ratting and ninja-salvaging how not to get blown up by vengeful carebears? More important, how to transport the income back to trading hubs?

I would not say that most income resources are located in low sec. IMHO the risk versus reward scale is way too far on the risk side of the scale. Yes you will have access to better exploration in low sec than high sec and that is probably worth it. Faction Warfare is another way to make a living in low sec. Pretty much everything else that I can think of to make isk in low sec is better and safer in null sec. Exploration also is better in null it's just the one thing that I would consider doing in low sec.

Keep in mind I am not talking about just any null sec you have to find the right situation in null sec but when you do find the right situation it can be very safe and very profitable.

Others who spend more time in low sec than me can correct me on this if I am wrong but to me low sec is where you go for PvP. If you are just looking to make more isk outside of high sec I'd look into joining one of the newbie friendly null sec corps.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Salvos Rhoska
#23 - 2016-12-13 15:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
We are all meat in this grinder called EVE.

A) Go omega. Its worth it. You really want that SP rate.
B) Stay out of LS unless you are in a LS corp native there.
C) NPC Null is often quite safe solo, thanks to Local and lack of alliance coordination.
D) Join a newbie friendly Sov NS corp and farm isk like hell.
E) Join a WH corp, but they typically dont want noobs.
F) Get into capable cruisers and run HS DEDs. Its a lottery but also potentially very lucrative, and very safe.
G) Get into a BS and spam L4s till you die inside.
H) Run FW plexes.
I) Skill into Incursion ships and grind them till you lose interest in the game.
J) Salvage other peoples wrecks, haul, station trade, scam, manufacture, mine, research etc, but all of these will likely earn you very little atleast at first, and lock you into specific builds that really cant do much else.

Your questions:
1) Is there any way for an alpha to be able to make a small fortune without mining 18 hours a day?
Nope. Atleast not alone. Best rewards will probably be from FW complexes at risk, probing/running low level DEDs, or NS exploration.

2) Is there any way for an alpha to assist a small PvP / Exploration corp?
PVP yes, as a scout and pointer. Exploration, not really, cos they can do it themselves.

3) Is there any way to not get killed instantly any opponent locks on you?
Fit a better tank and fly cautiously. As a new player you are vastly out-skilled by players on Omega.

4) Is there any way to actually afford a loss of a ship for an alpha account without endless mining of veldspar to replace one?
Grinding missions.

If you want to stay Alpha, I recommend these four options:
-Probe/run low level DEDs in a destroyer in HS (safe but a lottery, potentially multimillion rewards)
-Run low level FW complexes.(dangerous but consistent)
-Run data/relic sites in NS (dangerous but consistently lucrative)
-HS piracy with other Alphas or other HS piracy corps. (requires networking, and income is entirely dependent on whether you get a share)
(-Huff gas in WHs, but this requires reading, and you will lock yourself into an otherwise useless gas huffing SP build which cant do anytning else)

The start in EVE is rough. You dont know anything, and most players have more assets, skills and better ships.

If you are set on remaining Alpha:
For PvE: Run anomalies for escalations and low level DEDs in a destroyer. You might be able to run higher ones in a Gnosis.
For PvP: You can try to solo FW complexes. But I recommend joining a militia for that, and otherwise network with other Alphas for HS piracy or join/work with HS pirates like CODE.
-Join NS/LS/WH corp, but frankly you will be largely unable to exploit the wealth in those spaces due to your low SP and restrictions, even if they accept you.

Hope this helps. But seriously consider Omega.
Sir Dude
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-12-13 15:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dude
When you go to low sec as a new to newish player, then it can seem like you are just fodder for the grinder as you seem to just meet pvp players that have been playing 3-10 years or more all the time and you have no chance against them....and really you don't.

Best thing to do is join a corp and get involved/go on roams etc or these vets will chew you Many disproportionately skilled vet pvp players are waiting on the other side of the high sec to low sec gates feeding and all bets are off once you jump. Many newer players fail to realize this...but soon do.

Many say leave high sec...good idea, but they don't often say what's realistically waiting for you...haha....

....chaos usually.
Salvos Rhoska
#25 - 2016-12-13 17:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
My first ship loss was when I was chasing an escalation into LS.
I tried to take precautions, but had no idea what I was doing.
I exploded soon after entry, all the research I had done became a muddle of confusion as I tried to survive.

I think this is the case for many otherwise initially PvP averse players in their early days.
We are used to the format of other MMOs, to which EVE is completely different.
You think "well its still not NS, how bad can it be?" without realising its much much worse than NS for security.
Curiosity kills that cat straight up. I wanted to see what would happen, and I found out, hard.

Sooner or later, everyone will lose a ship.
Its important to get that cherry popped, cos thereafter you viscerally begin to understand what EVE is.

The first time will remain in your memory forever.
Cherish it, and know that you share it with many, many others.
Alaric Faelen
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2016-12-13 22:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
Yes. We are all just meat for the grinder. Next question..............

It's essentially a trial account. By definition you are a second class citizen. You are meant only to be able to sample enough of the game to decide it's worth the cost of a pizza once a month.

Alphas are handed skills that the last generation of player had to put real world time into training. Out of the box your character is ahead of the curve. Completely useful in PvE and PvP from day one.

Yeah, you're pretty disposable. Because death is meaningless to capsuleers, you have little intrinsic value. Your value is much more in your ship and ability to do something useful with it, even briefly. And because Alphas specifically only fly low value adds up that individually- you are slightly more powerful than my Rattlesnake's drones.

This is working as intended. Death comes quick to us, Alpha and Omega. Any old school Dictor pilot remembers only bringing one reload worth of bubbles because you rarely got to drop two, much less reload before being punted back to your clone vat. I spent much of the great Fountain War dying seconds into any given battle...then again after I reshipped and came back....then again to a gate camp that picked me off as I blazed straight back to the battle again.

It's our lot in life to die. Sometimes gloriously, sometimes shamefully, but always to be reborn and do it all over again. Meat for the grinder.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#27 - 2016-12-14 08:03:30 UTC
Kenny Frighand wrote:
A newbie like me is completely outweighted, outqualified, outgunned, and outnumbered, o matter what activity i do

You're a warm body, an extra ship in any fleet. The things an alpha clone is suited for include:

  1. Fast tackle (T1 variants of interceptors are still useful)
  2. Scouts (your clone and ship are cheap to replace, it's more about player skill)
  3. Mining/hauling in a mining fleet
  4. Extra DPS and webs in PVP or PVE
  5. Cannon fodder

The key is to find corps who will help you, rather than demanding you work for them. Shop around, look for recruiters, try out various corps and leave if they're not exactly right for you. Just avoid the corps that say "we will be doing PVE, PVP, exploration, trading, industry, mining, etc" (they want to be everything, and will end up doing nothing) and look for corps who have a history of doing stuff.

Just as an extra warm body, you are useful.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#28 - 2016-12-14 08:45:35 UTC
EVE is more about who has more pilots, knowlege and skills than about ISK, skillpoints and bigger ships.
Cxell Alcassa
Alcassa Family Shop
#29 - 2016-12-14 12:33:38 UTC
EVE is not for grinders! If you grind (doing anything the same way day by day with the same profit), you wrong. That means, you completely misunderstand EVE play mechanic. Read manuals, ask here and there, look at the world around.

This is not the Earth. You are not a human. Do not go second-in-EVE work after your primary work on Earth.

Every situation opens new opportunity! Ganker comes and kills your Venture - save capsule and return to grab ganker's wreck! Someone kills you - sell kill right! Found mega-rare item - do not go Jita with item on a shuttle, create courier contract... and so on.

United Aggression
#30 - 2016-12-14 13:46:53 UTC
Vortexo VonBrenner
#31 - 2016-12-14 17:33:36 UTC
Kenny Frighand wrote: a noob, my standing allows only 1-2 level missions....

Simple solution to that: team up

Form a fleet with someone who has the standings to accept a higher-level mission.

A bunch of new players could also form a little fleet of Tech1 frigates together and do that with someone who can accept higher-level missions.

Missions are better with others anyway.

As was mentioned, the isk from missions is from buying things from the loyalty point store and selling them on market, not from the mission rewards.

Also, you could do the same and fleet up with someone who can accept the epic arcs and all go on a "traveling circus" trip doing them together.

There are just so many answers to your questions. Really, look more up.

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