Intergalactic Summit

The choice to do whatever one wants instead of whatever one must is the most disgusting thing! Ideals to "be whatever and do whatever you want" belong to criminalized societies, there is no place for them in civilized world!

The Federals are widely known for doing whatever they want disregarding any laws, rules and treaties. And that's why we are fighting them.

I am aware it appears we are talking past eachother but since I haven't been visiting the igs until recently I am trying to get a feel for who you are, I know quite a bit but I'm attempting to see how much is fanatical hatred and fanatic loyalty, and how much is simply mis communication and error in any language barriers

I would contend that the issue we face is that each blow demands a counterblow; it's the pendulum, but with swings in discrete acts, instead of the flow of the warzone. Our current status is far closer to the equilibrium than the previous states, though I'd certainly love Caldari infrastructure in orbit, and a greater share of the planet than the fractional majority we have now. Of course, I'm also still of the mind that Ishukone administration is more sustainable than Provist was, but we could of course get into lengthy discussions of the value of Practical or Patriot administration. A CEP-managed administration would be, well, sticky, I think? Seeing as the CEP isn't really a mega, but instead a joint oversight board provided for by the megas.

Well, do you know that slavery is a legal on the territory of Amarr Empire. I don't care what you do with slavers in your territory, but the moment you start fighting legal slavery in Empire territory you cross that obvious limit and become a criminal, who is violating other peoples customs, laws and traditions.

All hypothetical and theoretical probabilities founded on the belief that the ownership of Caldari Prime is but binary; that either the State must have it, or the Federation must have it. I am loathe to argue that either should cede ownership of the territory, but I am just as loathe to argue that either should force the other to give it to them. It is true what you say in regards to the stubbornness of the Caldari and the pride of the Gallente, but they two sides are both part of the same coin: Neither is willing to relinquish ownership, and yet both fail to see the common ground they share.

Caldari Prime is a beacon to the plight of humanity, a beacon that would teach us our most valuable lessons in tolerance, patience, and compromise. The saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" is not a mantra that we should keep vigilant watch on our enemies, but that they are the greatest teachers that we could have. Our friends already align with our views, whereas our enemies would provide the challenging questions we must answer.

With this in mind, the Caldari and Gallente are certainly not friends, and after hundreds of years of conflict have yet to learn to work together, despite having such a storied history of doing so. We must remember that the Federation and the State were but one entity for a time, and though the origins for the divergence can be argued, it is important to remember that the two are capable of co-operation. Why not now, with Caldari Prime? Why must there be such bullheadedness toward who occupies the planet, when both already share common ground on its surface? For any reason despite perpetuating revenge, more specifically an intense desire to align with the philosophy that this world must either be Caldari or Gallente, there is no rational or pragmatic reason.

I do not wish to sound condescending or provide purely anecdotal evidence, but I implore others to see the relationship of Intaki and the Ishukone Corporation as an example of just what I speak.

I think what Mr. Nomistrav means when he says it is binary is that half of caldari prime is gallente who have called it home long before any conflicts even started between both powers. Yes it is the caldari home world and that does carry weight, but you can't simply disregard the people who have called it home for over a hundred years at the least. And Ms. Kim. Yes, it is the law in amarr to hold slaves, but the law is against the rights of the people who are made slaves. I bet you would be singing a very different tune if amarr decides to capture you, disable your implants, and make you a slave.

Well, we can all hear as gallente dog barks, and Gallente President even said so, even signed treaty, just to violate it five years later and invade half of the planet again.

You gallentean barkers can say whatever you want, but we see what you do on action. It doesn't fit your words.


The political problem is that gallentean propagandists, while living in fascist Gallente Federation dare to call our State fascist, which is an obvious lie. Basically, because Caldari State is built on principles of independancy, and in Gallente Federation they all bow down to central government, which represents interests of gallentean people in front of anyone else.

It is even greater problem, that these fascist gallentean swines dare to blame us in hostility, while as both two hundred year old and eight year old history shows that the real agressors, warmongers and hostile peoples were from the Federation.

We, Caldari people, are only fighting to protect our souvereignty from Gallente invaders, agressors and occupants.

We all know the facts. We know about Malkalen. We know about genocide on Caldari Prime, we know about genocide in Black Rise. About hidden prison facilities when Gallente torture our people. And of course about Gallentean invasion with occupation attempt in YC115, that they called "Operation Highlander".

They can lie to us like this Skyweir Kinnison person. They can lie they want peace and that we are "unrepentantly hostile". But we, citizens of the State, are only defending ourselves against Gallente agressors. And we will keep fighting them, while they keep coming at us with words of peace on their lying lips and with weapons in hands.

And we will keep doing it, until they will leave us alone. But until then... we will meet them as we should.

WITH FIRE AND STEEL.

I don't disagree. I sincerely hope that my message was not misworded in a way that would have you believe that I would advocate that the Federation should have concessions in Caldari Prime in the form of forcing the State's citizens to adopt their culture. Contrary to that, I feel that the Federation is wrong in that aspect, and their attempts to force it upon the State are overbearing. That said, you are absolutely correct in that Ishukone did not demand that which we were not willing to give, but they were willing to hear and understand what that was.

But it goes both ways. The Federation cannot be the only one to make concessions for the State; likewise, the State cannot be the only one to make compromises to the Federation. I find it almost embarrassing that the Federation, in all of its diversity, from the Caste System of the Jin-Mei to the Bureaucracy of the Gallente, that they cannot show leeway to the State. Yet, I also find it almost embarrassing that xenophobic and racist behavior is the staple of the State, which may be a flaw of the State's lack of central government; neither condoned nor condemned.

Well, Mr. Tuulinen, you have decided to leave the Caldari State to join a terrorist organization, opposed to Caldari State and Amarr Empire, thus I don't think you have any power left to talk about what our people will think about it.

You have missed my point though, so I will repeat if for you. We did negotiations with Gallente. For two hundred years we were trying to negotiate return of our homeworld, but it just stayed in Federal border, until they started going nuts and attacking Caldari people on our homeworld just because of their race. Foiritan even separated peoples on the planet based on their bloodlines. Federal police was beating Caldari who protested against racism. And only Tibus Heth managed to liberate our planet and stop these atrocities. After it happened, He signed a peace treaty to Gallente President, and there should have been peace.

Besides Gallente started the campaign, the limits of warfare were defined. But it didn't stop them as in YC115 they have violated the treaty they signed and invaded Caldari Prime again, even managed to occupy almost half of the planet.

Why would anyone pursuit negotiations with those, who will violate treaty anyway? Why would we open arms to Noirs and Bouviers (I think that was the name of the pilot, who led attack on CN Shiigeru)? Each treaty we sign just binds our arms, giving them opportunity to strike us in violation of this treaty where we don't expect.

If you wills step on the rake, it will hit your forehead. It will be not wise. But it will be straightforward dumb if you decide to step on this rake one more time, expecting it won't hit you this time.

i agree with Mr. Tuulinen, it doesnt matter if you do it now or if you do it later, it must end in negotiations. i have studied the histories extensively at the University of Caille in Bourynes and have a rather objective view of the situation. The way i see it, the only way to peacefully resolve the situation of Caldari prime is to not just demilitarize the panet of Caldari prime, but to demilitarize the entire system of Luminaire and not allow federation or state military assets into the system. Contract Mordus legion to be the police force on behalf of concord or have an entirely concord run space police force. There must also be concessions to both sides. But from my point of view, if you are offered an olive branch and you say no and would rather continue the fight instead of make peace, you are directly responsible for every death going forward. Even you Ms. Kim, seeing your words here and denying any form of peace talks without any fair consideration to both sides, not just yours, you are directly responsible for every single Caldari death from now on, simple as that. but there must be fair concessions on both sides, not just for the state, and not just for the federation.