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A valuable lesson about trade for other new players..

Author
Kris Koen
Black Lantern Holdings
#1 - 2016-12-11 10:13:37 UTC
I made a thread about this in the Market Discussion forum but i also think it may serve as a good warning for new players getting into trade.

I started station trading a few weeks ago with capital i'd built up running missions. I don't really know a huge amount about trade in EvE but the player driven economy has always interested the number cruncher in me. I played with a few different modules and hulls to differing degrees of success but eventually found a few cheapy ones and one or two high value hulls. Did well on a Navy Dominix before noticing Bhaalgorns had a nice wide margin and had been both sold and bought once or twice over the past few days, a rare purchase but a great payoff when it happened thought i Cool Well.. to cut a long story short when i edited the buy order this morning i failed to check the decimal had entered properly Lol Literally a second after i confirmed the update my wallet flashed a big red number and it dawned on me what had happened Roll a 245 Million ISK buy order had become a 2.4 Billion ISK buy order. I bought 1 Bhaalgorn for the price of 10 and my wallet went from 10 digits to about 200 Million ISK..

This isn't a complaint thread, rather the coming of a lesson i had always been aware could happen. I think it's something all newcomers must go through but man am i salty it happened on the Bhaalgorn Shocked

Hats off to the guy who sold me the golden Bhaalgorn, i'll be back... soon.. ish Roll

Sorry for inflating the daily price of Bhaalgorns in Rens this morning Straight
gfldex
#2 - 2016-12-11 10:31:56 UTC
Kris Koen wrote:
Literally a second after i confirmed the update my wallet flashed a big red number and it dawned on me what had happened Roll a 245 Million ISK buy order had become a 2.4 Billion ISK buy order. I bought 1 Bhaalgorn for the price of 10 and my wallet went from 10 digits to about 200 Million ISK.


You may want to think about this a little longer.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Kris Koen
Black Lantern Holdings
#3 - 2016-12-11 11:23:09 UTC
gfldex wrote:
You may want to think about this a little longer.


Care to explain? Not sure what you mean Straight
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#4 - 2016-12-11 13:02:14 UTC
Isn't there this warning like "Attention, the price you're about to enter is x% above regional average...", or similar? Didn't you get this warning? What about canceling the buy order immediately? Or is the order 5 minutes locked for cancellation, similar to price changes? And: did you contact the seller and described the mistake? Surely, he doesn't want to live with a guilty conscience of making easy profit at the expense of somebody else! Or does he? Shocked
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2016-12-11 13:27:12 UTC
Decimal places,
Super important.

Always double check.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#6 - 2016-12-11 15:02:44 UTC
I made a mistake like this a few times, so now whenever the warning box comes up I do a third check. It's possible you disabled the annoying warning window, in this case, you might want to go into preference and reset it, and not disable it.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#7 - 2016-12-11 15:09:59 UTC
Kolmogorow wrote:
Isn't there this warning like "Attention, the price you're about to enter is x% above regional average...", or similar? Didn't you get this warning? What about canceling the buy order immediately? Or is the order 5 minutes locked for cancellation, similar to price changes? And: did you contact the seller and described the mistake? Surely, he doesn't want to live with a guilty conscience of making easy profit at the expense of somebody else! Or does he? Shocked


Warning window might have been disabled. Many people disable it after it annoys them a few times.

If a buy order is posted that is higher than the lowest sell order, it is filled immediately at the buy order price. And yea, 5 minute lock.

It doesn't hurt to ask the seller for a refund. Be polite and offer a premium, since the main goal is to replenish capital, not make a profit. If the letter is polite enough, and they are in a good mood, they might give a refund.

If the letter is not polite, or if the don't refund and one complains, then the whole incident might appear in Crime and Punishment

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Kris Koen
Black Lantern Holdings
#8 - 2016-12-11 15:11:18 UTC
No i ikmagine the box flashed up and i confirmed it, idiot that i am P So used to seeing it and it not meaning anything that it's become second nature to skip it. I will learn though, failure will teach me..
Kris Koen
Black Lantern Holdings
#9 - 2016-12-11 15:28:03 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
[quote=Kolmogorow]It doesn't hurt to ask the seller for a refund. Be polite and offer a premium, since the main goal is to replenish capital, not make a profit. If the letter is polite enough, and they are in a good mood, they might give a refund.

If the letter is not polite, or if the don't refund and one complains, then the whole incident might appear in Crime and Punishment


I did mail the seller, asking if he might see it in his heart to send me 1B back of the 2.4B so i can try to trade my way back on top. Was hoping since it is literally all my trade capital he might take pity. As yet he has made no reply though, and i don't hold it against him What?

Thanks for the advice.
Yarosara Ruil
#10 - 2016-12-11 16:03:07 UTC
There's a reason accounting is a soft skill in EVE.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#11 - 2016-12-11 16:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Kris Koen wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
[quote=Kolmogorow]It doesn't hurt to ask the seller for a refund. Be polite and offer a premium, since the main goal is to replenish capital, not make a profit. If the letter is polite enough, and they are in a good mood, they might give a refund.

If the letter is not polite, or if the don't refund and one complains, then the whole incident might appear in Crime and Punishment


I did mail the seller, asking if he might see it in his heart to send me 1B back of the 2.4B so I can try to trade my way back on top. Was hoping since it is literally all my trade capital he might take pity. As yet he has made no reply, though, and I don't hold it against him What?

Thanks for the advice.


Sounds good. Just don't cry, or they will tease you to milk your tears. In this game, the community responds pretty well to players that own up to their own mistakes. Try not to sound like you're begging or it might trigger tear extraction.

Also, keep in mind that orders are up for 3 months time, which means the player might not even be active for a month or longer to read your email. Some people have trading alts that they only play when seeding the market.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-12-11 16:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Don't count on the below/above average warning, it's unreliable. It really should be "are you sure you want to make a buy order for higher than the lowest sell order, you idiot?" But alas, CCP never listens to me. Blink Always double check when it pops up anyway though.

This can happen on both buy and sell orders so always be careful.

Clicking outside the window or pressing tab will fill in the commas and decimal places on your number making it easier to check with a glance.

It happens to everyone eventually so what goes around usually comes around. Unfortunate that yours happened to clean you out. Right in that sweet spot between low enough that it doesn't bother you and have enough that you don't have enough money in your wallet for it to go through.

If you are going to be buying expensive mods/ships where this sort of mistake is more likely, you can always transfer some of your money to an alt for safe keeping.

One other tip: when editing orders you can use the mouse scroll wheel to move up/down by 0.01 isk per click. If you're having a 0.01 isk battle this can be a good way to prevent yourself from typos.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-12-11 16:36:19 UTC
Ouch, expensive lesson, OP. Thanks for sharing without crying about it. It will save some folks some troubles for sure.






Kolmogorow wrote:
...Surely, he doesn't want to live with a guilty conscience of making easy profit at the expense of somebody else! Or does he? Shocked

Big smile lol



voetius
Grundrisse
#14 - 2016-12-11 18:25:11 UTC

Most traders make this sort of mistake at some time, either through being tired or drunk or whatever. My golden rules are:

Always check everything twice
Always have warnings on
Tab out of price fields
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#15 - 2016-12-11 18:48:34 UTC
Don't trade when you're sleepy.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-12-11 20:21:45 UTC
Kris Koen wrote:
No i ikmagine the box flashed up and i confirmed it, idiot that i am P So used to seeing it and it not meaning anything that it's become second nature to skip it. I will learn though, failure will teach me..

Eve is a game that very much believes in personal responsibility. It will usually give you the tools to get information from which you can make reasonably informed decisions. However it will not protect you from your own laziness.

also worth noting is that Eve seems to love to punish anyone who has gotten into the habit of clicking through UIs without reading the text.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Kris Koen
Black Lantern Holdings
#17 - 2016-12-12 11:15:31 UTC
This game / these forums have a certain reputation for flaming people, but you've allbeen so nice Big smile Even on the market forum nobody made fun of me for throwing my ISK out the window Roll
Yarosara Ruil
#18 - 2016-12-12 11:21:13 UTC
Kris Koen wrote:
This game / these forums have a certain reputation for flaming people, but you've allbeen so nice Big smile Even on the market forum nobody made fun of me for throwing my ISK out the window Roll


In face of adversity, if you man up over your mistakes, you will find people in EVE will respect you for it.

Unless you are constantly messing up, because then you become a meme.
Memphis Baas
#19 - 2016-12-12 15:03:42 UTC
Kris Koen wrote:
This game / these forums have a certain reputation for flaming people, but you've allbeen so nice Big smile Even on the market forum nobody made fun of me for throwing my ISK out the window Roll


That's because you have the right attitude about it.

A lot of people post a whine that it's unfair and that the market interface must be changed to prevent this mistake in the future. Believe me, we flame those people.

By the way, the way the market works, the guy who happened to sell you the Bhaalghorn is probably as surprised as you were (though pleasantly). He just happened to have the cheapest price at the time; the market interface said "Oh you want to pay that much? Ok, I'll give it to the cheapest seller." The market always fulfills the best priced order that it can match, regardless of which one you click or how much money you put in (if it's more than enough).

Another trick is to not keep a lot of money on your main account; make an alt, keep your ISK reserves there. Although, this being your trading account, it makes sense why you had that much on it. But, "don't risk what you can't afford to lose", you may want to reserve half your capital using an alt, anyway. Or at least a few hundred million in case your market orders crash.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#20 - 2016-12-12 15:24:41 UTC
Kris Koen wrote:
This game / these forums have a certain reputation for flaming people, but you've allbeen so nice Big smile Even on the market forum nobody made fun of me for throwing my ISK out the window Roll



In this subforum at least, flaming is frowned upon. General Discussion and the other subforums are basically treated the same as Local chat, so flaming does happen there pretty routinely, sometimes to people that don't even deserve it. But generally speaking, if you have a good attitude then the community will respond in kind.

The learning curve in Eve is famous, so a result of that is all the people that stick with Eve consider themselves problem-solvers to some extent. People that recognize a problem, admit their mistakes and resolve to fix them, even asking for advice, these posts will always be treated with respect. Because the other players will empathize with your problems. Posts that declare a problem is unsolvable, just complain without asking for advice, or blame any other person but themselves for their problems, these people will flare rather brightly.

The regulars of this forum all genuinely enjoy helping newbies and we've all remember the things that made being a newbie frustrating. So we try to give even the people with a bad attitude a friendly reality check instead of flaming them.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

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