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WTS eve (really?)

Author
Hrist Harkonnen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2016-12-10 20:37:00 UTC
The skill injectors were a huge point towards selling/giving up the game imho (cash in fast before its sunk). They prob used all their cards into this expansion and the F2P model to see if the subscription rate rose significantly but it didn't happen.


Imo CCP failed years ago to keep new blood coming AND STAYING into the game. Sadly i returned just now with the F2P thing and started this Omega character but i really dont think the game has much more time.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2016-12-10 20:45:29 UTC
Olleybear wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Since EVE is the only real source of revenue for CCP, obviously any new owner would like to keep it alive. Now, maybe the new owners would be like the current ones, who, as far as we know, never directed the company, just let Hilmar & al do their job.

In that case, players wouldn't notice anything. CCP would be the same guys doing the same things, just for different owners... someone else reaping a share of the profits and that, at least while EVE & VR trinkets were commercially viable.


If the entirety of CCP intellectual property is up for sale, this is the best possible outcome us players could hope for once Eveonline is sold. A silent business partner buying the stake of the previous silent business partner, or perhaps seating an additional silent business partner at the CCP table, just might be a nice outcome for both Eveonline and the playerbase. Lets hope for that outcome if "Eve is For Sale" is more than just speculation by a few online news sites.



Silent? So...what are SKINS, Character Accessories, Skill Injectors, Alpha Clones?

Seems to me those are ways to make the game more profitable.

In the last few years, starting right around the time we got our Characters; replacing those portraits, CCP has made a major course change...and it seems money is the objective.

Obviously, that's a 'duh' thing. But realistically, EVE can't make money the way it is now. It needs to be easier, with more 'pay 2 skip'. Something to compete with the 'instant gratification' that mobile games offer.

Basically, the game's burn-out rate is faster than it's on-boarding rate.

World of Warcraft didn't get to 13 million by being hardcore. And even though it's at somewhere around 4 million now...that's still roughly 10 times more revenue than EVE generates (counting sub money only).

And that's exactly what a new owner would want...more players for more immediate profit
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#143 - 2016-12-10 20:49:04 UTC
i`m scared now. Not sure what to think about this thing.

On the other hand sometimes a new manager can improve things. A fresh mind of thinking can be better. But most of the time it`s fails hard. So well... Not sure if ccp will ever talk about this.
Don Pera Saissore
#144 - 2016-12-10 20:49:59 UTC
think positive guys, think valve
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#145 - 2016-12-10 21:04:11 UTC
Dyner wrote:
Olleybear wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Since EVE is the only real source of revenue for CCP, obviously any new owner would like to keep it alive. Now, maybe the new owners would be like the current ones, who, as far as we know, never directed the company, just let Hilmar & al do their job.

In that case, players wouldn't notice anything. CCP would be the same guys doing the same things, just for different owners... someone else reaping a share of the profits and that, at least while EVE & VR trinkets were commercially viable.


If the entirety of CCP intellectual property is up for sale, this is the best possible outcome us players could hope for once Eveonline is sold. A silent business partner buying the stake of the previous silent business partner, or perhaps seating an additional silent business partner at the CCP table, just might be a nice outcome for both Eveonline and the playerbase. Lets hope for that outcome if "Eve is For Sale" is more than just speculation by a few online news sites.



Silent? So...what are SKINS, Character Accessories, Skill Injectors, Alpha Clones?

Seems to me those are ways to make the game more profitable.

In the last few years, starting right around the time we got our Characters; replacing those portraits, CCP has made a major course change...and it seems money is the objective.

Obviously, that's a 'duh' thing. But realistically, EVE can't make money the way it is now. It needs to be easier, with more 'pay 2 skip'. Something to compete with the 'instant gratification' that mobile games offer.

Basically, the game's burn-out rate is faster than it's on-boarding rate.

World of Warcraft didn't get to 13 million by being hardcore. And even though it's at somewhere around 4 million now...that's still roughly 10 times more revenue than EVE generates (counting sub money only).

And that's exactly what a new owner would want...more players for more immediate profit


Well, EVE is 13 years old, and the price of subscription is the same today as it was then. Due to inflation, this means that in terms of purchase power, a subscription to EVE is 40% cheaper now than when it was launched (15 dollars buy you now the same as 9 dollars did in 2003). This is why extra revenue per customer is needed to compensate for the frozen subscription.
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
#146 - 2016-12-10 21:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Olleybear
Dyner wrote:

Silent? So...what are SKINS, Character Accessories, Skill Injectors, Alpha Clones?

Seems to me those are ways to make the game more profitable.

......

Obviously, that's a 'duh' thing. But realistically, EVE can't make money the way it is now. It needs to be easier, with more 'pay 2 skip'. Something to compete with the 'instant gratification' that mobile games offer.

Basically, the game's burn-out rate is faster than it's on-boarding rate.

World of Warcraft didn't get to 13 million by being hardcore. And even though it's at somewhere around 4 million now...that's still roughly 10 times more revenue than EVE generates (counting sub money only).

And that's exactly what a new owner would want...more players for more immediate profit


We can both agree that making the game more profitable is a good thing for both investors and players. People of the forums were wanting skins, or ways to customize their own ships, for years before skins came out. CCP also fielded the idea of Pay for Skillpoints at Fanfest a few years ago to see the audiences response. So unless the "silent" partners were around back then, skins and skill injectors are all CCP's own internal ideas.

Eveonline will never compete with instant gratification mobile games, ever. It is ridiculous to even say Eve needs to compete with mobile games. However, if you want more things you can do to effect the main Eve game that you play on a pc, from a mobile device, like change your market orders or setting skills then this might be a good idea for mobile.

Eve does have part of Wows game model with the 'healer" class of ships, and also with Incursion play that mimics Wows raids. Eve's learning curve, its unforgiving nature in that you lose everything when your ship explodes, and the fact that you dont level grind are different than WoW. You wouldnt want to change those things though as they are the heart of Eve and make Eve, well, Eve instead of Wow in space.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM Defensive Initiative
#147 - 2016-12-10 21:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
CCP discussed microtransactions to great extend before they introduced them to EVE.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1106/evenews24_ccp_bulletin.zip

Password: dominixevenews24

BTW, there is mention of NANO PAINTS, in 2011, a great deal before we got them in 2015 named as Super Kerr-Induced Nanocoatings (aka SKINs). Pilot program for them in 2014 was named just "skining" without mention of any nano-.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2016-12-10 22:08:19 UTC
Olleybear wrote:
Dyner wrote:

Silent? So...what are SKINS, Character Accessories, Skill Injectors, Alpha Clones?

Seems to me those are ways to make the game more profitable.

......

Obviously, that's a 'duh' thing. But realistically, EVE can't make money the way it is now. It needs to be easier, with more 'pay 2 skip'. Something to compete with the 'instant gratification' that mobile games offer.

Basically, the game's burn-out rate is faster than it's on-boarding rate.

World of Warcraft didn't get to 13 million by being hardcore. And even though it's at somewhere around 4 million now...that's still roughly 10 times more revenue than EVE generates (counting sub money only).

And that's exactly what a new owner would want...more players for more immediate profit


We can both agree that making the game more profitable is a good thing for both investors and players. People of the forums were wanting skins, or ways to customize their own ships, for years before skins came out. CCP also fielded the idea of Pay for Skillpoints at Fanfest a few years ago to see the audiences response. So unless the "silent" partners were around back then, skins and skill injectors are all CCP's own internal ideas.

Eveonline will never compete with instant gratification mobile games, ever. It is ridiculous to even say Eve needs to compete with mobile games. However, if you want more things you can do to effect the main Eve game that you play on a pc, from a mobile device, like change your market orders or setting skills then this might be a good idea for mobile.

Eve does have part of Wows game model with the 'healer" class of ships, and also with Incursion play that mimics Wows raids. Eve's learning curve, its unforgiving nature in that you lose everything when your ship explodes, and the fact that you dont level grind are different than WoW. You wouldnt want to change those things though as they are the heart of Eve and make Eve, well, Eve instead of Wow in space.



I didn't mean EVE needs to compete, as in the stay relevant, but they would need to do so to make the money in the quantities that those games make...which is something any investor would be pushing for. -- It's more money for them, they'd be stupid not to.

And, as someone who had a mind for business, I would push CCP to implement 'easy money' schemes (SKINS come to mind). People were asking for them long before SKINS, but CCP choose to make SKINS a 'pay extra for' item.

...and sorry for this, but I would change EVE to be more like WoW, because I want that 15/mo 'times' 4 million people; not that 15/mo 'times' ~400,000 (this may not be accurate anymore; it's the last number I recall hearing).

I don't care if you all quit. Because I, using some formula probably, know I at least triple the number of subs for at least a couple of months.

And I'm a 'silent partner', with legally binding gag clauses so what do I care if the player base gets pissed off. I bought the company to make money not to make friends.

((Remember, this is me speaking as a business man. I love this game dearly and I don't want it to change to the point that EVE is no longer EVE. But you all need to remember, investors, typically, are like house flippers; spend as little money generate the largest possible return in the shortest amount of time. -- You get that by catering to the masses (sometimes referred to as the lowest common denominator, which is wrongly used since you're actually using the mean [or average]; the average person does not want to expend a great deal of time or effort playing -- They want to relax..not work.)))

---

As for EVE's similarity to WoW, I would say it's similar to GW2. As far as 'healer ships' are concerned it'd be closer to how, in GW2, you can typically spec every class to offer some sort of 'heal thy self and thy allies'.

In regards to raids..EVE doesn't have hard threat. I've heard NPCs (like in Incursions) will lock on to the first ship that enters...but I've never seen this first hand, so won't speak on it. GW2 is similar, no hard threat; you all get to tank! :P
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM Defensive Initiative
#149 - 2016-12-10 22:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Quote:
I don't care if you all quit. Because I, using some formula probably, know I at least triple the number of subs for at least a couple of months.

I dont think such formulas exist. Else every game out there would use it. And even with situation like that, the relevance of said formula would become nullified and other factors would be more important, like for example current playerbase oppinion.

Do we know how Star Wars Galaxies changed and what was the result? We know.
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
#150 - 2016-12-10 22:25:51 UTC
Dyner wrote:

I didn't mean EVE needs to compete, as in the stay relevant, but they would need to do so to make the money in the quantities that those games make...which is something any investor would be pushing for. -- It's more money for them, they'd be stupid not to.

And, as someone who had a mind for business, I would push CCP to implement 'easy money' schemes (SKINS come to mind). People were asking for them long before SKINS, but CCP choose to make SKINS a 'pay extra for' item.

...and sorry for this, but I would change EVE to be more like WoW, because I want that 15/mo 'times' 4 million people; not that 15/mo 'times' ~400,000 (this may not be accurate anymore; it's the last number I recall hearing).

I don't care if you all quit. Because I, using some formula probably, know I at least triple the number of subs for at least a couple of months.

And I'm a 'silent partner', with legally binding gag clauses so what do I care if the player base gets pissed off. I bought the company to make money not to make friends.

((Remember, this is me speaking as a business man. I love this game dearly and I don't want it to change to the point that EVE is no longer EVE. But you all need to remember, investors, typically, are like house flippers; spend as little money generate the largest possible return in the shortest amount of time. -- You get that by catering to the masses (sometimes referred to as the lowest common denominator, which is wrongly used since you're actually using the mean [or average]; the average person does not want to expend a great deal of time or effort playing -- They want to relax..not work.)))


I'm glad you have pointed out exactly how an investor thinks when they buy into something to turn a profit. You are correct about that short term profit, to hell with everything else mindset too. This investor/House Flipper mindset is exactly what the player base is worried about and you put that into words that everyone can understand.

Thanks for that.

This is exactly why there are those of us here who are voicing our concerns.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2016-12-10 22:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyner
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
I don't care if you all quit. Because I, using some formula probably, know I at least triple the number of subs for at least a couple of months.

I dont think such formulas exist. Else every game out there would use it. With situation like that, the relevance of said formula would become nullified and other factors would be more important, like for example current playerbase oppinion.

Do we know how Star Wars Galaxies changed and what was the result? We know.



Formula probably isn't a good way of decribing, but I don't know how else would you word it.

Basically the easier a game gets the more money it will generate up to a point and after that interest drops.

Look at WoW, the best expansion they ever had was Wrath. This was the first expansion fully under Activsion (TBC was pretty much done at the time of the acquisition).

They pushed it further trying to make things easier, in the hopes more would join; Cataclysm fell flat on its face. So they tried targeting the Asian Market, which is where the game makes most of it's money (something like 90% of the revenue I think); Mist of Pandaria floated and then sunk. So they've been trying to pull back and return to Wrath, while still pushing the mobile venue (garrisons and later class halls).

...it's not working so well from the looks of it.

So, the formula would be something like to make EVE as easy and rewarding as Wrath was for a WoW player. Now what would that entail...I'm not sure.

EDIT

Now for SWG, I don't know...that may have been a fluke. Probably due to the IP the game was based on. Star Wars has a monumental following and everyone knows you didn't just 'become a Jedi'; you worked hard to get there....like your father and his farther before ( :P ).

I've also heard it was LucasArts that pushed for the CU patch...and they hadn't done an MMO, only modified-FPS (third person) and maybe RTS. So they may have not fully grasped that an MMO player would want things to be more difficult. And also, speaking of that, it was a different time. I bet CU would have been popular in today's MMO Player circle.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM Defensive Initiative
#152 - 2016-12-10 23:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
I would not put so much weight on difficulty. There is so much more to it than that. For me EVE is easy, but I am a long term player. It wasnt particularly hard in beginning also, less than I expected. Depth, customization and consequences that feel real is what I always preferred in games. And of course pretty avatars.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2016-12-10 23:43:57 UTC
The way this article reads isn't worth the speculation of a Threadnaught, honestly.

First paragraph: "CCP might sell the business according to people with knowledge of the matter"
Second paragraph: "Here's a handful of scary sounding names of companies who's representatives didn't want to be identified"
Third Paragraph (sentence, really): "No-one wants to talk about it."
Fourth Paragraph: "Here's some completely unrelated evidence!"
Fifth Paragraph: "Here's a cool history of CCP games."
Sixth Paragraph: "Here's some financial stuff that came from a person familiar with the matter"

All fluff, no real sources. They probably got a tid-bit that CCP might be selling -a franchise- (after all, CCP Shanghai is largely independent of Rekyjavik) and just blew it out of proportion with speculation and misinformation.

But yanno, feel free to continue doomsday theorizing. Wouldn't be the first, certainly won't be the last.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#154 - 2016-12-10 23:51:50 UTC
My question is who would even want to buy a product that's so complicated, of niche appeal and has a history of nearly being mismanaged to death.

I'm going with Amazon, they're the only company I can think of that would be brave enough to take on such a questionably profitable product.
Kiaksar2142
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2016-12-11 01:34:51 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
The way this article reads isn't worth the speculation of a Threadnaught, honestly.

First paragraph: "CCP might sell the business according to people with knowledge of the matter"
Second paragraph: "Here's a handful of scary sounding names of companies who's representatives didn't want to be identified"
Third Paragraph (sentence, really): "No-one wants to talk about it."
Fourth Paragraph: "Here's some completely unrelated evidence!"
Fifth Paragraph: "Here's a cool history of CCP games."
Sixth Paragraph: "Here's some financial stuff that came from a person familiar with the matter"

All fluff, no real sources. They probably got a tid-bit that CCP might be selling -a franchise- (after all, CCP Shanghai is largely independent of Rekyjavik) and just blew it out of proportion with speculation and misinformation.

But yanno, feel free to continue doomsday theorizing. Wouldn't be the first, certainly won't be the last.


this is the best point in this thread!
I wish i could get this idea before =P

But yeah, I'm 100% agree with you. No sources, nothing else. just some leaked stuff which can be really not we are thinking of in real..
and even if all this is true, no one will likely to close EVE.
Simply cause that EVE is the CCP's most valuable product that brings stable income. yeah, not as much as other pay to win mmo's but still its stable. So no one would like to get rid of EVE after all.
Dyllan Ybrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2016-12-11 01:52:19 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
The way this article reads isn't worth the speculation of a Threadnaught, honestly.

First paragraph: "CCP might sell the business according to people with knowledge of the matter"
Second paragraph: "Here's a handful of scary sounding names of companies who's representatives didn't want to be identified"
Third Paragraph (sentence, really): "No-one wants to talk about it."
Fourth Paragraph: "Here's some completely unrelated evidence!"
Fifth Paragraph: "Here's a cool history of CCP games."
Sixth Paragraph: "Here's some financial stuff that came from a person familiar with the matter"

All fluff, no real sources. They probably got a tid-bit that CCP might be selling -a franchise- (after all, CCP Shanghai is largely independent of Rekyjavik) and just blew it out of proportion with speculation and misinformation.

But yanno, feel free to continue doomsday theorizing. Wouldn't be the first, certainly won't be the last.


It's true, it's all gossip.

Honestly does anyone know how much stock in CCP has issued vs. what is outstanding? Who has the controlling stake, CCP or a third party? I'm willing to bet no one knows but CCP and the "owner(s)". This stock isn't publicly traded, and so this could be a change of shares between private parties that has no bearing on the company's day to day operations and possibly not even it's long term strategy.

Gossip, tasty doomsday gossip.

> "I find it hard to believe that the notoriously incompetent DED investigators managed to solve this 'mystery' in such a short time" ~ Omir Sarikusa

Olleybear
Armed And Angry
#157 - 2016-12-11 02:26:47 UTC
Dyllan Ybrex wrote:

Gossip, tasty doomsday gossip.


Lets hope that is all these 2 separate stories are is gossip.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#158 - 2016-12-11 04:31:14 UTC
Yay! Can't wait for those console ports and lockboxes!

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#159 - 2016-12-11 06:45:15 UTC
Hrist Harkonnen wrote:
The skill injectors were a huge point towards selling/giving up the game imho (cash in fast before its sunk). They prob used all their cards into this expansion and the F2P model to see if the subscription rate rose significantly but it didn't happen.


Imo CCP failed years ago to keep new blood coming AND STAYING into the game. Sadly i returned just now with the F2P thing and started this Omega character but i really dont think the game has much more time.


they failed years ago between promoting a hostile group of players between "be the bad guy, play eve" and "HTFU" followed by the eve event when they introduced the jump tunnels saying "We are at a point where we can lose players" and months later "how do we keep players"

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Flamespar
WarRavens
#160 - 2016-12-11 07:01:06 UTC
Honestly the fact that there are people willing to buy the company probably indicates that CCP is doing quite well. Why would anyone invest in a dying company?