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Specialized Mini ORE Freighters?
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Iain Cariaba
#21 - 2016-12-10 16:05:37 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Do Little wrote:
I would also like to see the Miasmos, Kyros, Epithal and Hoarder transferred to Ore and let Alphas train Ore Industrial level 1. If you want an Ore mini freighter take a look at the Orca. It can do practically everything you asked.


But it isn't low enough mass for most WH connections, so yes the Orca does most of what I asked and I know that, but the big thing I am looking for is something that can carry a lot through all C1-C6 WH statics.

Edit: maybe what could happen is that ore takes over development of those ships and makes improvements to them, so we get something with low mass, no new ships, and more cargo room for our goodies.



...Why do you think you should be able to move 150km3 through a c1?

Or should I ask, why do you feel it needs to be easier to get caps in C1s, since that is, iirc, more than enough compressed ore to build one?

How do DSTs work in c1s, and why is 80km3 not enough for your needs?


What DST does 80k m3 of ore?

I just thinking making it easier for people to get mined goods out of WHs would be healthier for the game then current meta.

Two trips in a DST is 125k m3. Why is it unhealthy for the game for you to need to make two trips instead of one to bring in almost as much ore as your suggested ship?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-12-10 16:08:10 UTC
An occator with a full rack of expanded cargos and two t1 cargo rigs tops 80k. 85 if you t2 the rigs.

Why do you think it needs to be easier to get things out of a place that, by design, has difficult logistics?
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#23 - 2016-12-10 17:03:03 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
An occator with a full rack of expanded cargos and two t1 cargo rigs tops 80k. 85 if you t2 the rigs.

Why do you think it needs to be easier to get things out of a place that, by design, has difficult logistics?


Good to know about the fittings.

And to answer the 2nd part. Evolution.

And if it was missed, I would want these things to be sucker gankable if they don't have a fleet with them. I won't go killing them, but I am willing to take the risk of moving more ore, PI and mineral easier.

And I think if they had bonuses for receiving remote reps, it would be a very neat and cool feature.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Cade Windstalker
#24 - 2016-12-10 18:37:13 UTC
What you're describing here is basically a freighter but massively buffed. The in-between is pretty much the Orca.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#25 - 2016-12-10 18:55:26 UTC
My DST can fit 20 GSC's (78,000 m3), plus 2500 m3 more in hangar, plus 3300 m3 cargo, and still have full tank, prop mods, and etc.

That totals 83,800 m3. Plenty of space.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-12-10 19:38:28 UTC
The only 'need' that 'might' need filled for haulers 'might' be that awkward spot between the DST and JF, where, incidentally, packaged fortizars fall.

Whether that needs a new hauler that can fit 80k space in one hold for that fort, or just a 'use a freighter,'.... I'm not really going to comment on that one way or another.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-12-17 03:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Just an idea, which I am sure has been kicked around a lot, but I thought I would bring it up again with all the changes to New Eden.

How would EVE and the players react to having ORE introduce three mini freighters that had specialized cargo bays and low low mass (think access to wormhole space but not frigate wormholes).

I am thinking something along the lines of 150k to 250k m3 specialized bays for ore, PI, and minerals.

They would need to be between the 500 million and billion ISK point. With gank ability based on cost of the ship. I would lean toward lower cost and easier to gank, but maybe added bonuses to getting remote support from fleet mates.

Players could go about moving lots of stuff solo and risk losing it all, or go in a fleet and have higher chances of survival.
This would encourages team play and allow people to do more things in EVE.

TheGream

p.s. thank of the kill-mails.


there is a hauler already suited for this called the Miasmos

though for alpha clones ccp need to add other race variants

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-12-21 00:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Why specialize their bays? We need racial mini-freighters, and NO the ORCA is NOT a mini-freighter. An ORCA is the same size and cost as a full size freighter and simply lacks the hauling capacity.

But let me be clear: the mini-freighter should be considerably larger and more massive than a battleship. If you're trying to haul stuff at battleship and battlecruiser size, use a deep space transport.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#29 - 2016-12-21 11:22:03 UTC
Gallente have a whole range of beautiful specialized haulers already. If you're looking for something bigger get a DST. There is no need to anything like that. ORE would also be the wrong faction for it, they only do in mining gear and mining support and the misplaced Bowhead, which should've been a racial ship or Interbus ship but CCP didn't want to put more resources in designing it and put some half effort in. imho It should've gone to Interbus, after they started to ship goods for the SCC across the cluster.

Baddest poster ever
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#30 - 2016-12-21 21:21:00 UTC
I dropped this thread like a week ago, surprised it is still up and going.

We will have to see what CCP comes up with. For now I am on holiday and I am looking forward to the new year.

Merry Christmas EVE forums.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-12-22 01:01:41 UTC
On this episode of, "What's Reaver completely wrong about today..."

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
An ORCA is the same size and cost as a full size freighter




The mineral cost of an Orca is a little more than half of a freighter.

It's not even close without T2 rigs.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-12-22 01:49:16 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
On this episode of, "What's Reaver completely wrong about today..."

The mineral cost of an Orca is a little more than half of a freighter.

It's not even close without T2 rigs.

They are approximately the same relative to DSTs and large T1 industrials. The Orca fails miserably as a light freighter. This has been explained in-depth too many times to count, yet you people persist in saying that the Orca works as a mini-freighter.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#33 - 2016-12-22 02:43:49 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
On this episode of, "What's Reaver completely wrong about today..."

The mineral cost of an Orca is a little more than half of a freighter.

It's not even close without T2 rigs.

They are approximately the same relative to DSTs and large T1 industrials. The Orca fails miserably as a light freighter. This has been explained in-depth too many times to count, yet you people persist in saying that the Orca works as a mini-freighter.



If I understand you right, you are going off a per m3/ISK value.
Max yield ore hold Orca
187k ore bay (I haven't sit in my orca for a few weeks, my number might be off)
40k fleet
100k cargo

327k m3 if all you moved was ore. At the average price for an Orca is 750 million (will be higher due to rig cost for cargo) I think if math done right, you are looking at 2.1k ISK per m3.

My max yield on my obelisk is like 1.2 million (not perfect skills) and I paid like 1.2-1.5 billion so I runs about 1250 ISK per M3.

With the changes that Alpha clones bring, it might just be a good time to have another industrial ship pass through.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-12-22 07:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Amarisen Gream wrote:
If I understand you right, you are going off a per m3/ISK value.

I'm mostly just talking about its cargo size (not counting ore bay) being not much larger than a DST while it aligns close to the speed of a freighter. A light freighter would reasonably align a bit faster than an Orca while hauling significantly more stuff.


HAULING CAPACITY
DST: . . . . .#######
Orca: . . . . ############
Freighter: . ################################################################################


ALIGN TIME
DST: . . . . .##########################
Orca: . . . . #######################################################
Freighter: . ##################################################################################
(also consider: low powergrid and high mass of the Orca means it cannot easily fit a prop mod to align faster the way a DST can)

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#35 - 2016-12-22 07:22:04 UTC
Orcas align in 10 seconds flat or you're doing it wrong. And if you have a line on Orca-priced freighters I'll take five.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-12-22 08:14:21 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Orcas align in 10 seconds

with a MWD that uses up 80% of their powergrid.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#37 - 2016-12-22 15:49:53 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Orcas align in 10 seconds

with a MWD that uses up 80% of their powergrid.


Which might matter if it actually needed that grid for anything else when fit for hauling, but it doesn't.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-12-22 16:43:39 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Which might matter if it actually needed that grid for anything else when fit for hauling, but it doesn't.

Regardless:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
HAULING CAPACITY
DST: . . . . .#######
Orca: . . . . ############
Freighter: . ################################################################################


There's no way an Orca can act as a light freighter with that amount of cargo.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#39 - 2016-12-22 17:14:06 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Which might matter if it actually needed that grid for anything else when fit for hauling, but it doesn't.

Regardless:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
HAULING CAPACITY
DST: . . . . .#######
Orca: . . . . ############
Freighter: . ################################################################################


There's no way an Orca can act as a light freighter with that amount of cargo.


That's funny, because I actually use an Orca for expressly that purpose and find it to be exceedingly adequate. 140K general storage, combined with the ore hold and 10s align, is actually pretty amazing for T2 production mats.

Battleship mass makes it handy for low-class WHs, as well.

There's no need, and no overarching benefit, in being able to dial-a-cargohold to whatever size you need. If you need mass cargo, fly a freighter. If you don't, select whichever other option is most appropriate.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-12-23 02:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
That's funny, because I actually use an Orca for expressly that purpose and find it to be exceedingly adequate. 140K general storage, combined with the ore hold and 10s align, is actually pretty amazing for T2 production mats.

Have you used a DST before? It hauls half the stuff but with 7.5s align time, 65% faster warp, half the EHP but under 7% of the sig radius, under a tenth of the mass, fits a MJD, reps itself rapidly, same capacitor (effectively much stronger because of the sig radius and smaller modules). So it's far safer and, considering its faster align and warp, not a whole lot weaker in terms of direct haul throughput. If you have to make multiple trips through a wormhole, the DST is far less likely to collapse it, and also quite a bit less likely to get caught in a camp. And finally, though price of the ship may fall short of the value of cargo, nevertheless the DST is a fourth of the cost of an Orca, ~200 mil vs ~800 mil.


I'm not saying that you're making the wrong choice to use an Orca instead of a DST, but I am saying that for the increased effort and risk, it's not a fair increase in hauling capacity. I'll go back to what you said at the end of your post:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
There's no need, and no overarching benefit, in being able to dial-a-cargohold to whatever size you need. If you need mass cargo, fly a freighter. If you don't, select whichever other option is most appropriate.

There exists a titanic chasm in cargohold sizes between subcap industrials and freighters. There is absolutely a reason to add light freighters to the game. You yourself could use one, as you are sadly limited to flying that poor Orca on a job it wasn't built for and which it doesn't do very well.

Saying the Orca is enough would be like if there were no battlecruisers in the game, and you said it's fine because the Porpoise can pretend to be a battlecruiser.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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