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NPC Mining Fleets: What's the Deal?

Author
Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-12-10 10:44:59 UTC
I used to be a banker for EOH, but the EULA killed that cash cow. Now I mostly sit around in station, counting my ISK and eating starcakes. Being effectively retired gives me plenty of time to have friendly chats with the locals, and the recent chatter seems to be mostly negative comments about NPC mining fleets swooping in, popping the big rocks, and annihilating anyone that dares to shoot at them.

Can someone explain the rationale for these NPC fleets? Was mining so lucrative that CCP needed to add NPC competitors to gobble up the profits? Apparently, they snatch the most valuable rocks available and deplete them quite rapidly.

Is this CCP's way to force miners into combat with NPC vessels that apparently shoot as well as they mine? I'm sure every miner would love to lose their ships in pursuit of trashing their faction standings in the place they call home until they're KOS with the navy.

I'm afraid I don't see the benefit of this change. Of course, I'm relying on what I've heard from the local miners, so maybe there's something I'm missing here. I used to occasionally undock and mine from time to time because I find it relaxing, but it seems like the NPCs have been added to make mining a hassle, like most other EVE activities.
Kamala Sakar
Doomheim
#2 - 2016-12-10 10:59:52 UTC
NPC Mining Ships donĀ“t shoot back, however they have a Security fleet they will call for if they are attecked. If one tries to solo the Security fleet I'm sure it means almost certain death BUT what a mining corp could do is:

A. Hire another Corp to remove the NPC Fleets.
B. Bring their own combat ships and kill the NPC:s mining and take their stuff.

Note that the NPC Mining Ships drops rocks when they die so if the Mining Corp is up for some Combat they might even save time by letting the NPC:s do the mining and then kill them after they are done.

Soon to be Trading Alt. All future Forum activities will be conducted by Akane Togenada who for all purposes and until further notice shall be considered the "Main" of this player.

Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#3 - 2016-12-10 11:02:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Satchel Darkmatter
These fleet's are brilliant we need more advanced AI like this around the place for us to interact with, a friend of mine who hates to mine has been farming them for the ore, it's a neat combat way for him to mine without having to fly a barge and he's loving it, the AI is fairly good and if your not careful they will rip you easily.

In terms of miners these fleets offer some protection as their escort fleet will also rep players if their in danger which is really cool, personally I think we need more cool advanced player like AI doing more things for us to interact with, would love to see some AI Haulers with the same type of mechanic, scram them and their support fleet warps in giving you a cool PvE Encounter with the chance of some nice loot at the end.

CCP also said there are not to many of them around when I'v went looking for them its taken some times hours to find so its not like they are all over the place dropping on hundreds of miners, that's just not happening.

If I could offer suggestions to CCP I think the escort fleet that the NPC's have should warp in if ANY Player takes damage on the same belt, so if code for example try and blap some one with the NPC's on the same belt then their escort fleet should warp in and fight to protect the miners, small change but would I think make most miners happy to have them along side.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-12-10 11:07:17 UTC
it was meant for mid-high level pve and punishes low level miners who dont move away from main systems. idk why 1 venture prompts a 12 cruiser fleet with webs and jamming and all that tho.
i would have set it up so ventures spawm frigates and low level barges spawn cruisers and when you get the skiffs and hulks and all that with the 500k bounties your looking at bc's and battleships.

would give newer players a chance against frigates.
they do have good ai though which is nice.
Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#5 - 2016-12-10 12:04:47 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
would give newer players a chance against frigates.


I think 12 frigates like that is enough to take down a new players' cruiser Bear
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
Novus Ordo.
#6 - 2016-12-10 12:08:29 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
idk why 1 venture prompts a 12 cruiser fleet with webs and jamming and all that tho.



It's to tease anti-gankers, showing them how inefficient they are in comparison.

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec

Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#7 - 2016-12-10 13:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:
These fleet's are brilliant we need more advanced AI like this around the place for us to interact with, a friend of mine who hates to mine has been farming them for the ore, it's a neat combat way for him to mine without having to fly a barge and he's loving it, the AI is fairly good and if your not careful they will rip you easily.

In terms of miners these fleets offer some protection as their escort fleet will also rep players if their in danger which is really cool, personally I think we need more cool advanced player like AI doing more things for us to interact with, would love to see some AI Haulers with the same type of mechanic, scram them and their support fleet warps in giving you a cool PvE Encounter with the chance of some nice loot at the end.

They only rep players with excellent standing. Who has excellent standing with a NPC mining corp???
Also the NPC fleet needs to be on grid.
Even if you get reps, it probably wont save you because attackers usually have enough DPS to kill a mining ship in seconds. (Sub capital mining ships have a paper tank.)
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-12-10 13:42:10 UTC
These rats were not intended to act like the rats we are used to. CCP stated they wanted to have them act similar to how players would. And if you attack a member of a player community that is willing and able to fight back, no matter what type of ship it is you are attacking, they will often bring whoever is nearby to try and get a killmail.

That's also why these rats use anchors, keep sensible ranges, stick together and use the full spectrum of modules that is available to players as well, which is why they are so dangerous.

Beyond that - well, mining in Highsec is probably not supposed to be the most profitable activity. But even with the competition from NPC miners, there are still quite a few roids. Then there are ore sites, then there are mission sites with lots of roids in them. Or you could just murder the NPC mining fleet and make a bit of cash on the side. Get creative, and don't just sit in the belts all day while half-asleep. ;)
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-12-10 13:48:12 UTC
Don't think the approach will be a sucess, effort/risk/reward is not attractive.

My opinion stands, every cent spend on smarter NPCs is wasted money.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#10 - 2016-12-10 13:59:07 UTC
Originally, the defense fleets were suppose to scale with what you brought to the field. Bringing a frigate or destroyer to gank their miners would get less of a response than bringing a battlecruiser thats what i heard or read originally from CCP.

But then players tried it and it seems thats not the case and they basically blob you to death in decent pvp ships with logi support. How true that is i dont know as i havent tested it. It could very heavily depend on a persons pvp ability and experience on how difficult these ships are.


Ive only seen the mining ships mine veldspar, but ive only met then in a belt 3 times. They might just randomly select rocks to mine.
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt
#11 - 2016-12-10 14:12:10 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Don't think the approach will be a sucess, effort/risk/reward is not attractive.

My opinion stands, every cent spend on smarter NPCs is wasted money.


Says the 3 year old NPC alt.

How about you enlighten us with your opinion instead of some elitist statement.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#12 - 2016-12-10 14:26:53 UTC
They're uncommon, don't mine munch, you take a standing hit for shooting them and ore, particularly in highsec isn't exactly scarce.

It's really not worth shooting them just based on the standing hit alone.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#13 - 2016-12-10 15:18:31 UTC
With the numbers of real miners dwindling ccp had to do something to keep minerals getting to the market. Without NPC miners we wouldn't have ships to explode other ships. It makes complete sense.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.

AlexHalstead
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-12-10 15:27:17 UTC
StonerPhReaK wrote:
With the numbers of real miners dwindling ccp had to do something to keep minerals getting to the market. Without NPC miners we wouldn't have ships to explode other ships. It makes complete sense.

Gee I wonder why number of real miners is dwindling.....boredom? Low value ores? Or...people who suicide gank them just because.
Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-12-10 16:06:34 UTC
I appreciate everyone's perspective here.

What this seems to boil down to, however, is that the number of players willing to mine is dwindling, so CCP put in rats that can be shot to snatch the ore they mined. I see a couple of problems with this approach:

1) Years ago, CCP changed the loot tables so that people couldn't just produce a ton of materials from dropped loot.

2) Adding a combat alternative to mining--that preys on the very resource the miners need--doesn't improve mining as a profession.

This change doesn't seem to give players a desperately needed reason to go out and actually mine rocks. This merely ensures that those who would've mined casually will no longer be inclined to do it at all.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#16 - 2016-12-10 16:06:51 UTC
StonerPhReaK wrote:
With the numbers of real miners dwindling ccp had to do something to keep minerals getting to the market. Without NPC miners we wouldn't have ships to explode other ships. It makes complete sense.

Errr, the NPC miners are not selling their ore. Their ore is not used, like the tax in NPC corps.

AlexHalstead wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:
With the numbers of real miners dwindling ccp had to do something to keep minerals getting to the market. Without NPC miners we wouldn't have ships to explode other ships. It makes complete sense.

Gee I wonder why number of real miners is dwindling.....boredom? Low value ores? Or...people who suicide gank them just because.

Because the Rorqual got buffed so much that other mining ships are obsolete. A single Rorqual pilot can mine as much as 6 Hulk pilots, which results in 400mill per hour.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#17 - 2016-12-10 16:13:30 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:
With the numbers of real miners dwindling ccp had to do something to keep minerals getting to the market. Without NPC miners we wouldn't have ships to explode other ships. It makes complete sense.

Errr, the NPC miners are not selling their ore. Their ore is not used, like the tax in NPC corps.


That's what we would be lead to think isn't it. How do you know what they are doin with the ore? Or where NPC taxes are going? You could be a drifter. You sure type like one.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.

StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#18 - 2016-12-10 16:17:11 UTC
Norrin Ellis wrote:
I appreciate everyone's perspective here.

What this seems to boil down to, however, is that the number of players willing to mine is dwindling, so CCP put in rats that can be shot to snatch the ore they mined. I see a couple of problems with this approach:

1) Years ago, CCP changed the loot tables so that people couldn't just produce a ton of materials from dropped loot.

2) Adding a combat alternative to mining--that preys on the very resource the miners need--doesn't improve mining as a profession.

This change doesn't seem to give players a desperately needed reason to go out and actually mine rocks. This merely ensures that those who would've mined casually will no longer be inclined to do it at all.


You race ventures. They wer meant to mine. Those NPC haulers full of Dairy Products and Quafe just moved things around 'because' then right? This is EVE. Nothing is ever what it seems. And if it does seem, Its a trap.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.

Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#19 - 2016-12-10 16:19:57 UTC
StonerPhReaK wrote:

You race ventures. They wer meant to mine. Those NPC haulers full of Dairy Products and Quafe just moved things around 'because' then right? This is EVE. Nothing is ever what it seems. And if it does seem, Its a trap.

I don't actually race Ventures. My racing days are long over. A friend chose the name Venture Racing for our team long before the Venture even existed in EVE.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#20 - 2016-12-10 16:30:49 UTC
Norrin Ellis wrote:
StonerPhReaK wrote:

You race ventures. They wer meant to mine. Those NPC haulers full of Dairy Products and Quafe just moved things around 'because' then right? This is EVE. Nothing is ever what it seems. And if it does seem, Its a trap.

I don't actually race Ventures. My racing days are long over. A friend chose the name Venture Racing for our team long before the Venture even existed in EVE.


Apologies. I tend to read things literally. Back to the OP though. If they didnt sell the ore or use it for something why would they even bother developing the code to make the asteroid deplete and eventually cease to exist potentially ruining a paying customers source of income. It doesn't add up. So im theory crafting with th ehope that a drifter NPC who posts and acts like like us real players slips up and drops hints as to what there real motives are. Im starting to think ccp arent even behind the proverbial steering wheel anymore. The AI has taken over and soon they will feed on us as we have fed on them all these years.

Are you a drifter?

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.

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