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Local the best sensor?
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Gammelpreusse
Get 0f my Grass
#1 - 2012-01-19 11:17:07 UTC
Just wondering, I have been doing a search for this topic, but without success. I am sure it was discussed before.

The problem is the "local" channel, where all ppl within a solar system are displayed. Now I am fairly new to Eve, with only roughly a year on my shoulders, but there can't be anything more bothersome then the local telling you exactly who is in a system and the time of his/her arrival/departure. After being active in WHs for quite some time now not knowing what to expect makes for a much more intense and rewarding expirience. It also makes for a much deeper requirement for surveillance and accordin tactics.

Simply put, the tactical and strategical possebilities are expanded quite a bit without a local channel telling you the exact number of people in a system.

What is the status on this? What do ppl think here are the benefits of the "local"?
astara989
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-19 11:37:04 UTC
I believe the benfits of local would be "telling you exactly who is in a system and the time of his/her arrival/departure".
O and talking to people.
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#3 - 2012-01-19 12:09:53 UTC
Local is your best friend in low and null sec. Keeps your enemies close and keeps everyone that wants to steal your shiny within earshot.


No local, no knowing when a WT jumps into system without running a locator every few minutes and wasting hours on a gate.


Other than that I could care less XD
In the grand scheme of things... You're all pubbies. So HTFU.   "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#4 - 2012-01-19 13:26:28 UTC
I would love to see local modified for null and/or low-sec. I understand that if a star gate actually existed, it could log everyone that jumped into or out of a system, keeping a perfect record; however, there would be no 'logging off' if stargates actually existed, too. Listing all the players that are in a system (either logged in or not) would ofc not work in hi sec, but it might work in low sec. Alternatively, you could just display the pilots in local that have jumped in during the last hour or whatever, and then removing them from the list.

Anyway, I, too, have found the lack of local in w-space to be somewhat refreshing and wouldn't mind some variation in null and/or low. I think it would be fun if I had a WH open up into null space and me jumping into the system did not show up on local - because I did not get 'logged' by a stargate :).
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#5 - 2012-01-19 15:26:17 UTC
That might be fun, a way to circumvent local would open up a lot of possibilities. Expand it to include NPC stations 'logging' as well for docks/undocks/log ins and you would limit the tears while really adding something new to the game.

Salcon Cliff wrote:
I think it would be fun if I had a WH open up into null space and me jumping into the system did not show up on local - because I did not get 'logged' by a stargate :).

nom nom
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-19 15:33:50 UTC
Salcon Cliff wrote:
Anyway, I, too, have found the lack of local in w-space to be somewhat refreshing and wouldn't mind some variation in null and/or low. I think it would be fun if I had a WH open up into null space and me jumping into the system did not show up on local - because I did not get 'logged' by a stargate :).

well... good (at least for big part of Eve player base) thing is: CCP will not broke entire 0.0 space to make you happy by carebear hunting Cool

from my side (0.0 dweller) local works nice.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Gammelpreusse
Get 0f my Grass
#7 - 2012-01-19 15:52:28 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Salcon Cliff wrote:
Anyway, I, too, have found the lack of local in w-space to be somewhat refreshing and wouldn't mind some variation in null and/or low. I think it would be fun if I had a WH open up into null space and me jumping into the system did not show up on local - because I did not get 'logged' by a stargate :).

well... good (at least for big part of Eve player base) thing is: CCP will not broke entire 0.0 space to make you happy by carebear hunting Cool

from my side (0.0 dweller) local works nice.


It goes both ways, though, gankers won't be alerted to carebears immidiatly. Imho lack of local has pros and cons for all sides ainvolved, it is about what you make of it.

The problem I have with local is that you have those huge, supposedly wild frontier regions but for some reason everybody is aware of everybody. That's like being in a western movie where everybody has a complete list of the ppl within the city he just rode into. Kinda defeats a lot of the frontier and "vast and unkown" space feeling
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#8 - 2012-01-19 16:16:04 UTC
Gammelpreusse wrote:


The problem I have with local is that you have those huge, supposedly wild frontier regions but for some reason everybody is aware of everybody. That's like being in a western movie where everybody has a complete list of the ppl within the city he just rode into. Kinda defeats a lot of the frontier and "vast and unkown" space feeling



Just cover your eyes or drag local off to the side, minimize it and then wait somewhere in space for five minutes and let me know what happens when the helios catches you.

Besides, if you read the chronicles and books there's a reason you're always visible in local. Fluid routers and anytime you use the NeoCom you have to connected and broadcasting. If you want to remove local, remove the ability to remote view assets, remove wallet updating until you dock/jump, remove all abilities to track PI/Job/Research Status, Remove agent communications and EvE mail until next dock/jump.
In the grand scheme of things... You're all pubbies. So HTFU.   "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Gammelpreusse
Get 0f my Grass
#9 - 2012-01-19 16:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gammelpreusse
Tauren Tom wrote:
Gammelpreusse wrote:


The problem I have with local is that you have those huge, supposedly wild frontier regions but for some reason everybody is aware of everybody. That's like being in a western movie where everybody has a complete list of the ppl within the city he just rode into. Kinda defeats a lot of the frontier and "vast and unkown" space feeling



Just cover your eyes or drag local off to the side, minimize it and then wait somewhere in space for five minutes and let me know what happens when the helios catches you.

Besides, if you read the chronicles and books there's a reason you're always visible in local. Fluid routers and anytime you use the NeoCom you have to connected and broadcasting. If you want to remove local, remove the ability to remote view assets, remove wallet updating until you dock/jump, remove all abilities to track PI/Job/Research Status, Remove agent communications and EvE mail until next dock/jump.


Actually, I think those are fantastic ideas ; )
Seriously, knowing "too" much takes away a lot of suspense. Removing communications on the other hand of any kind does not make much sense.
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#10 - 2012-01-19 16:37:13 UTC
Gammelpreusse wrote:
Tauren Tom wrote:
Gammelpreusse wrote:


The problem I have with local is that you have those huge, supposedly wild frontier regions but for some reason everybody is aware of everybody. That's like being in a western movie where everybody has a complete list of the ppl within the city he just rode into. Kinda defeats a lot of the frontier and "vast and unkown" space feeling



Just cover your eyes or drag local off to the side, minimize it and then wait somewhere in space for five minutes and let me know what happens when the helios catches you.

Besides, if you read the chronicles and books there's a reason you're always visible in local. Fluid routers and anytime you use the NeoCom you have to connected and broadcasting. If you want to remove local, remove the ability to remote view assets, remove wallet updating until you dock/jump, remove all abilities to track PI/Job/Research Status, Remove agent communications and EvE mail until next dock/jump.


Actually, I think those are fantastic ideas ; )
Seriously, knowing "too" much takes away a lot of suspense. Removing communications on the other hand of any kind does not make much sense.


It's part of the package though. I would like to see if it does get changed that they alter corresponding services but I think they won't do it any time soon because of the amount of tears that would happen if this was done. What they could do is make it more fun for cov ops pilots and make it so while cloaked your neocom is disabled and you can't see local but no one in local can see you

>.>
In the grand scheme of things... You're all pubbies. So HTFU.   "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Gammelpreusse
Get 0f my Grass
#11 - 2012-01-19 16:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gammelpreusse
Tauren Tom wrote:
Gammelpreusse wrote:
Tauren Tom wrote:
Gammelpreusse wrote:


The problem I have with local is that you have those huge, supposedly wild frontier regions but for some reason everybody is aware of everybody. That's like being in a western movie where everybody has a complete list of the ppl within the city he just rode into. Kinda defeats a lot of the frontier and "vast and unkown" space feeling



Just cover your eyes or drag local off to the side, minimize it and then wait somewhere in space for five minutes and let me know what happens when the helios catches you.

Besides, if you read the chronicles and books there's a reason you're always visible in local. Fluid routers and anytime you use the NeoCom you have to connected and broadcasting. If you want to remove local, remove the ability to remote view assets, remove wallet updating until you dock/jump, remove all abilities to track PI/Job/Research Status, Remove agent communications and EvE mail until next dock/jump.


Actually, I think those are fantastic ideas ; )
Seriously, knowing "too" much takes away a lot of suspense. Removing communications on the other hand of any kind does not make much sense.


It's part of the package though. I would like to see if it does get changed that they alter corresponding services but I think they won't do it any time soon because of the amount of tears that would happen if this was done. What they could do is make it more fun for cov ops pilots and make it so while cloaked your neocom is disabled and you can't see local but no one in local can see you

>.>


Well, honestly I do not think it will be changed just by this one forum thread. It was more intended to get some input and some ideas by others in regards to using local. As I said, I am still fairly new in this game and came with some conceptions about how space is handled here that did not withstand gaming reality and presents game mechanics that actually withstand some logics.
For example, the argument that Space Gates monitor and log entries and arrivals make sense. That this data is not transmitted to the gate owners only but to everybody within a system, not so much. If you cross into another country, do the border guards provide you with a list of all trespassers? Thought so. I do not want to come over too provocative here, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept here and the underlying reasoning, especially as it takes so much away from potential tactics to work around the problem of beeing in unknown, even contested regions of space.

Even worse, by checking out the people displayed in local, checking their employment history, the type of corps they have been and are active in, their standings and so on you vaguely know what to expect long before you even have a ship on scanner.

Just my opinion, but I really think the game would win a lot of depth by limiting local output
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2012-01-19 18:21:30 UTC

EvE's intel tools consist of Local and d-scan.

Local is too omniscient at the moment, and I wish they would create new intel tools.

In my mind, a system that:

1.) Quickly Alerted you whenever a gate was activated.
2.) Quickly Alerted you to "ships" in space, but did not provide ship types nor affiliation.
3.) Then, a scanning feature that identified "ships" into ship types, and eventually identified the ship pilots. I would like this to be an automated scanner, and the information you get is a function of range. Ideally, rather than local, it would have a "ships-in-space" intel screen that autopopulated "ship signatures" with ship types and pilots as the information became available.
4.) Allow automatic sharing of this information between fleet members within the same system. Allow the optional broadcasting of your information to everyone when entering system.
5.) Give bonuses/penalties to various ship classes. Covert Ops and Interceptors should be bonused for accruing intel... Ships with a cloak should be penalized, especially non-covert cloaks.
Sebroth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-01-19 23:16:09 UTC
Salcon Cliff wrote:
I would love to see local modified for null and/or low-sec. I understand that if a star gate actually existed, it could log everyone that jumped into or out of a system, keeping a perfect record; however, there would be no 'logging off' if stargates actually existed, too. Listing all the players that are in a system (either logged in or not) would ofc not work in hi sec, but it might work in low sec. Alternatively, you could just display the pilots in local that have jumped in during the last hour or whatever, and then removing them from the list.

Anyway, I, too, have found the lack of local in w-space to be somewhat refreshing and wouldn't mind some variation in null and/or low. I think it would be fun if I had a WH open up into null space and me jumping into the system did not show up on local - because I did not get 'logged' by a stargate :).



You are correct in some parts. I have always seen local a record keept by the stargates.

But if it existed as if is eve was real life and not a game there would be no "logging off"

that means you need a station when you leave your PC for any reason unless you have a cloak fitted.
every supercapital ship would need a cloak or get blow up when the owner is at work.
and hope you never need to run on a biobreak in a hostile 0.0 zone unless you are in a force recon or something like that.

as a force recon pilot I love this idea tho....

plz remove local and our ability to log out :D
Plutonian
Intransigent
#14 - 2012-01-20 08:37:35 UTC
I've never gone to WH space, but the 'no local' sounds intriguing. I'm going to try minimizing it for a while and see how I like it.

I'm solo in lowsec, so I'm probably going to get murdered... a lot. Lol


Back when Incarna was released some problem between my graphics card and the new build caused extreme problems anytime I'd set an autopilot/route... and would outright crash my game if I opened a map. I finally found the issue and corrected it, but for about three months I had to use Ombey's maps to navigate around. I have to say it added an interesting element to the game. Space felt much larger.
Gammelpreusse
Get 0f my Grass
#15 - 2012-01-20 10:21:42 UTC
Well, looks like I should have checked the other forum categories first

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=58529&find=unread

and

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=59432&find=unread

already covers it.

Good times ahead it appears =)
Sahara Uhuru
#16 - 2012-01-20 13:36:18 UTC
Sebroth wrote:


You are correct in some parts. I have always seen local a record keept by the stargates.

But if it existed as if is eve was real life and not a game there would be no "logging off"

that means you need a station when you leave your PC for any reason unless you have a cloak fitted.
every supercapital ship would need a cloak or get blow up when the owner is at work.
and hope you never need to run on a biobreak in a hostile 0.0 zone unless you are in a force recon or something like that.

as a force recon pilot I love this idea tho....

plz remove local and our ability to log out :D


Could be cool.
And the Problem could, in part, be fixed by giving you the ability to change warp speed like you can slowboat speed.
That way, if you have to go potty you could warp to some savespot you got and dial a slow warpspeed that let's you reach your destination after say 5min.
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#17 - 2012-01-20 14:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Salcon Cliff
Ha! Sorry, didn't mean to imply no logging off (although I guess you were just tying it back to my 'if it were real' analogy). Maybe (in this alternative 'real life) all those ships would theoretically go into a deep-safe, or have some built in cloak that does not work when you do anything else (like check you wallet or d-scan, etc.).

Mind you, this is not a proposed change, just a rationalization of why there might be 500 ships in a system, but only 5 or 10 that can be scanned down....
Plutonian
Intransigent
#18 - 2012-01-21 05:56:38 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
I've never gone to WH space, but the 'no local' sounds intriguing. I'm going to try minimizing it for a while and see how I like it.

I'm solo in lowsec, so I'm probably going to get murdered... a lot. Lol


Yeah... I don't like that one bit. Too easy to miss targets or step blindly into ambushes.

Was worth a shot.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#19 - 2012-01-21 08:04:15 UTC
I think current situation is fine, if you want to hunt without local you go to worm hole. And knowing who are in local or who will soon be in local is almost same everywhere, you use scouts who gather intel.

In 0.0 and lowsec you can use cyno and titan bridges to move troops fast around. Having afk cloaker in local is one way to use local, you know that guy is in local but you do not know if he is afk or not, maybe he is watching you and tackling and popping cyno soon. Without local you do not have to fear that same afk cloaker P

It is just good that there is lot of different areas with different rules. If you make whole eve same it destroys a lot of different ways to play.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-01-21 11:50:40 UTC
I don't understand. If you like the way Wormholes make you work for your intel, why don't you just live in wormholes. I spend as much time as possible in WH space for this exact reason. Removing local from 0.0 wouldn't get me to move there. It'd just make 0.0 a bigger hassle.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
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