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Amy’s Cynical Guide to Gallente Politics.

Author
Ameriya
Doomheim
#41 - 2016-12-08 21:00:09 UTC
The funny thing is, I would love to see what the VA want to accomplish (with the exception of actual up to date medical equipment) actually become public policy. They have a reasonably sound idea. But until they actually do something more than pass a resolution, it's nothing.

I know it might be cliche, but are they actually going to try to bell the cat, or just say that the cat should have a bell.

(Note, do not ******* try to put a bell on me. It would not be funny. I bite. And I scratch.)
Arrendis
TK Corp
#42 - 2016-12-08 21:04:20 UTC
Garion Avarr wrote:
It's not corruption, it's exchanging mutual favors and having an excellent network of friends.


Only in the first person, as in 'my excellent network of friends', in the second or third person, it's corruption. Smile
Ameriya
Doomheim
#43 - 2016-12-08 21:07:31 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
It doesn't matter just how much you make it evident your misunderstandings of the workings between nation states, franchising, Federal oversight, and the innards of the political intricacies of the Federation. Embarrassing yourself isn't really necessary in aiding the dejected. You're free to, though.
Sure, point out just where I am wrong in any of that and I'll happily correct myself. I don't even remember talking about "workings between nation states, franchising, Federal oversight[. . . .]" As for all I said about the political intricacies, all I said was that money talks. Go ahead. I'll let you explain to me how I'm wrong.
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#44 - 2016-12-08 21:15:41 UTC
Who would you have the VA give there money to?

Why is it there job to give away money?

Why is calling for the constitutional rights of Gallente citizens wrong?

What is the appropriate manner for a group of Gallente citizens to try and help?

When would you prefer to see press releases from the Villore Assembly?

Where would this vast sum of ISK go to?

How should a group of citizens make there wants known to the greater cluster?



Ameriya
Doomheim
#45 - 2016-12-08 21:25:53 UTC
Tristan Valentina wrote:
Who would you have the VA give there money to? Find at least one political candidate you like and start there.

Why is it there job to give away money? Words without actions are meaningless.

Why is calling for the constitutional rights of Gallente citizens wrong? It's not wrong.

What is the appropriate manner for a group of Gallente citizens to try and help? Given that this group is fantastically wealthy capsuleers, I am sure that they could contribute to a substantial number of political campaigns across the Federation.

When would you prefer to see press releases from the Villore Assembly? Depends on what they are. "The Villore Assembly has set aside three billion ISK to support the candidacies of x, y, z people who support our vision for adequate health care for all Gallente citizens" is an extremely good press release. When you all have that ready to go, proof and post asap!

Where would this vast sum of ISK go to? See above.

How should a group of citizens make there wants known to the greater cluster? Again, you're capsuleers. Don't pretend you're just some civics club. You have the wealth and power to actually influence public policy.

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#46 - 2016-12-08 21:28:37 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
It doesn't matter just how much you make it evident your misunderstandings of the workings between nation states, franchising, Federal oversight, and the innards of the political intricacies of the Federation. Embarrassing yourself isn't really necessary in aiding the dejected. You're free to, though.
Sure, point out just where I am wrong in any of that and I'll happily correct myself. I don't even remember talking about "workings between nation states, franchising, Federal oversight[. . . .]" As for all I said about the political intricacies, all I said was that money talks. Go ahead. I'll let you explain to me how I'm wrong.

Thus far...

You have made assumptions on multiple points (the activities of VA members and observers beyond the immediately available resolution, as well as the subtext of the resolution itself), presented expertise with flawed credentials (one doctor is not as good as another in all circumstances), expertise with no credentials (politics, against the word of those who have experience), unverifiable third party testimony (Eves), repeated avoidance of queries (Mine, when there is no logical answer on your end, I've not failed to note), repeated changes of position and posture in avoidance of said queries (Patient or politics?), unverified claims of contributions (There are no available records for your charities and political contributions), demands without supporting reasoning beyond the standard of living in one local area (Basic supplies versus AIMED's and other such high end, expensive, equipment), and statements regarding information for which sources have not been presented (The economic and social states of Delta and Gamma cities, where established information disagrees with your assertions)...

Honestly, at this point, I'm no longer taking this seriously. It's a diversion for me.

I'm mostly just curious about one point, after which I'll leave you to your own devices... Why the focus on the VA alone?

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Ameriya
Doomheim
#47 - 2016-12-08 21:44:09 UTC
Wow, I'm surprised in that list you didn't accuse me of forging my medical license! If you're going to call me a liar, just do it.
As for the VA, they picked a topic I cared about. Probably the only one. As long as they are talking about Dust Bunnies getting jobs as cops, or whatever the heck else they are wanting to do, it's just whatever.
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#48 - 2016-12-08 21:44:41 UTC
So just going to respond to your answers to my questions.

You want the VA to look to individual candidates. While I see the merit in this thinking, it seems like a very small way to address a problem seen by a group of capsuleers, we have the ability to drop the supplies from orbit if that was our goal.

Words without action is meaningless. Do you understand what happens when capsuleers take action? Local markets collapse, free goods flood markets, and good intentions lead to lazy development. Look at the constant work of Xun Yu, that is the kind of thing that needs to be done because of capsuleer action.

It is not wrong. Glad we agree there.

We are fantastically wealthy capsuleers. I would say see above, but as a restatement if a capsuleer infuses wealth into a deteriorated situation it creates a bubble of good which then bursts leaving a crater behind them. As a doctor I understand you are not an economist, but you should consult one as I am sure they can show you the folly of this thinking.

You would like to see the VA supporting individual candidates. Again I can see the merit in this thinking, but the VA has decided instead of doing that which they see as adding corruption to a perfectly working system they will call for the system to make changes.

Vast sums of ISK are worth more then the entire GDP of worlds. Giving such a thing to a single person or in support of a single person invites corruption.

The VA are capsuleers but they are also citizens they have just as much a right to yell at the government as anyone else.

As a capsuleer I have enough power that public policy has no effect on me, using the kind of power I hold to affect it is literally destroying an ant hill with hot lead. As a Citizen I have as much ability as any other. The VA is trying to use the power of there citizenship to see real change. Some to protect the ant hill, some to stop pouring hot lead on it.



Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#49 - 2016-12-08 21:51:25 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
Wow, I'm surprised in that list you didn't accuse me of forging my medical license! If you're going to call me a liar, just do it.
As for the VA, they picked a topic I cared about. Probably the only one. As long as they are talking about Dust Bunnies getting jobs as cops, or whatever the heck else they are wanting to do, it's just whatever.


I answered your question. In some ways, it's my purpose for existing and as ever, I can't help how much of what I see, and present in reply, is what the questioner wishes to hear. However, it seems to me that answers aren't really what this is about, miss Ameriya.

And so, I bid you an earnest farewell and best wishes in your pursuits.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#50 - 2016-12-08 21:51:50 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
I'll let you explain to me how I'm wrong.



Sure! I'd love to.

How Does One a Federation Make wrote:
to the sum of (insert how much the Villore Assembly actually cares about health care in terms of money here) for the purposes of recruiting, campaigning, and ensuring the electing of government officials at all levels of the Federation who support the Villore Assembly’ stance on improving health care in Delta and Gamma cities.


On the Federal level, to keep third parties out of the election process, member states and private organizations (corporations, what have you) are forbidden from contributing financially. With that in reference, and with the fact you're a senator's daughter, it makes it a little worrisome you seem so insistent on the fact you can just solve political issues with money. If it were that easy, you'd expect a little (read: a lot) more Capsuleer influence on the Federation as a whole, yet at the same time, not really - and here's why.



My Dad Works for the Federation wrote:
"Welcome to the way things actually happen in the Federation. If you want to get something done, make sure that a politician, preferably several, owe you very significant favors for helping them get elected. You want a politician that will take your call every time you ring. I know, I try to get more cynical every day, but lately, I just cannot keep up."


This is something I wouldn't have expected to hear from someone who so ardently sticks up for the Feds. Member-states don't adhere to some blanket conventional elective process for their politicians. At all. Period. What about direct democracies? How are you going to bribe an entire population? What about demarchy? Are you going to manipulate the random chance and hope the guy you've manipulated snags the spot? What about a consensus? Elective feudalism? There's so many more. This leads into my next point, too! (How wonderfully concise, no?)



Please Clean My Litterbox wrote:
"Firstly, this is not how our democracy works. No one over the age of twelve actually believes that all we have to do is write a letter to the senator, or the paper, and things will get done."


Duh. That'd be stupid. You don't wrote to a senator. You write to the representative of your member-state if you're in a representative democracy. You talk to your fellow man in a direct democracy. Sheesh, come on.



Grr Federation Misunderstand Federation wrote:
"In addition, they should also hire a good lobbying firm in Villore to make sure the current senators hear about this issue on a weekly basis."


Senators are legally required to meet with their district parliament at least once a week. Like, this is already a thing.

Continued below, because I love a good argument.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.

Ameriya
Doomheim
#51 - 2016-12-08 21:51:58 UTC
Tristan Valentina wrote:

We are fantastically wealthy capsuleers. I would say see above, but as a restatement if a capsuleer infuses wealth into a deteriorated situation it creates a bubble of good which then bursts leaving a crater behind them. As a doctor I understand you are not an economist, but you should consult one as I am sure they can show you the folly of this thinking.

You would like to see the VA supporting individual candidates. Again I can see the merit in this thinking, but the VA has decided instead of doing that which they see as adding corruption to a perfectly working system they will call for the system to make changes.

What is the difference between a capsuleer charity and a government facility? I see none in effect. If a capsuleer sets up a hospital with endowment in a delta city, that would be the same as a government hospital paid for by taxes in terms of the effect on local economy.

"Adding corruption to a perfectly working system." This is where we disagree. It's not a perfectly working system. Everything that I said is already happening by other groups with other agendas.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#52 - 2016-12-08 21:52:38 UTC
I Only Care Because I'm Inconsistent wrote:
"They go off and do their thing for a few months and then come back with a very dry report to great acclaim about all that is needed to fix the health care system in the Federation. The Senate maybe adopts one or two points from the report into law and everyone hails the success. This gives the appearance of doing something without actually doing much. With the health care issued settled, the Senate can move on to things they actually want to focus on: things that will actually get them elected."


I'm not sure if your father ever told you about the Progressors, but the senate has historically shown a desire not to legislate on this matter any further than they already have. As previously mentioned, the Progressors - the folks since the Fifth Union - are pretty philosophically opposed to the idea.



I Did Surgeries On People Once wrote:

"Do we have a constitutional right to adequate health care? Of course, but the constitution is a little vague on what adequate is. This is for a reason: technology progresses."


lol.

Member-states have to adjust and vary the policies suited to their cultural and economic realities.




tl;dr the Federation is not a union of states, it is a union of nation-states, and for those who live planetside, the Federal Government is really a distant reality to their normal living lives.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.

Ameriya
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-12-08 21:55:21 UTC
You're the ones that called for Federal action on this issue. If you want Federal action, then do what you need to do to get Federal action.
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#54 - 2016-12-08 21:57:11 UTC
Ameriya wrote:

What is the difference between a capsuleer charity and a government facility?


Literally so many things it would be difficult to list them all, but here's a few.

They can be regulated by entirely different bodies.

They can pay different taxes (A charity pays some, a Government institution might not at all.)

They can be legally allowed to operate on different scales

They can be legally allowed to operate across borders

A capsuleer charity is trans-governmental and can operate across nations

etc,

etc,

etc.
Ameriya
Doomheim
#55 - 2016-12-08 21:58:51 UTC
Poorly worded, but my answer gave my thinking away. The effect on a local population by a charity hospital and a government hospital will be more or less the same.
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#56 - 2016-12-08 22:10:06 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
Poorly worded, but my answer gave my thinking away. The effect on a local population by a charity hospital and a government hospital will be more or less the same.


That's totally not true. There are plenty of instances of Charity hospital withholding medical treatment, unless for example that person converted to a particular faith.

A government mandated hospital can do no such thing.

Simply put, you are wrong.
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#57 - 2016-12-08 22:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Valentina
The difference between a capsuleer charity, and a government facility is a matter of scale. As capsuleers we operate in ISK, (We do this so that the clusters economy does not crash in on itself through inflation. Also CONCORD mandates we do this.) Government facilities operate in local currency, this allows them to become a part of the community they are serving.

Sure disagree with a word choice that proves your point valid. So the system is not perfect but I think we agree on the fact that it is working. The VA does not want to break it further then what they see is already broken.

Other groups with other agendas do not effect the VA. If you do not like the way the VA is behaving please feel free to contribute as it is not a special club, and as a Gallente citizen you are more then welcome to contribute. I am sure you can find the contact information. Pissing in their pudding because they decided to use collective bargaining to start a conversation about a problem you where working on but did not get consulted on looks poorly on all involved.
Ameriya
Doomheim
#58 - 2016-12-08 22:18:26 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Ameriya wrote:
Poorly worded, but my answer gave my thinking away. The effect on a local population by a charity hospital and a government hospital will be more or less the same.


That's totally not true. There are plenty of instances of Charity hospital withholding medical treatment, unless for example that person converted to a particular faith.

A government mandated hospital can do no such thing.

Simply put, you are wrong.


What kind of a ****** ass doctor would withhold treatment?
Tsao Aubbes
Tidal Lock
Vapor-Lock
#59 - 2016-12-08 22:23:14 UTC
I don't really like to get involved with drama. I also think everyone should have a voice. But if you want me to be honest, why should we believe what your talking about? Every single time I've seen you on a router, you're being excessivly lewd, taunting or teasing someone. I've never seen you talk about or doing anything with medicine. And I've seen you on the IGS and Summit about 5 times.

Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.

Ameriya
Doomheim
#60 - 2016-12-08 22:27:51 UTC
Tristan Valentina wrote:
Other groups with other agendas do not effect the VA. If you do not like the way the VA is behaving please feel free to contribute as it is not a special club, and as a Gallente citizen you are more then welcome to contribute. I am sure you can find the contact information. Pissing in their pudding because they decided to use collective bargaining to start a conversation about a problem you where working on but did not get consulted on looks poorly on all involved.

Is that what you think I am doing? Pissing in pudding? This is a lesson plan in how to accomplish one's goals. This is the political equivalent of me saying 'suck that and curl your fingers a little bit more' or 'if you vary your form with that flogger, the sensations will be better.' If you prefer something more clinical: 'If you actually want to lose weight, stop eating three pounds of chocolate each week!'