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THE Minutes, New Player Experience...and Mining (Industry)
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#41 - 2012-01-19 14:50:01 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
And it shows a bit of prejudicial treatment and DIS-respect on the part of CCP to the existing and POTENTIAL Industrial playerbase if you really think about it.



All you are going to achieve by lowering the requirements; is making it easier to train up a bot for RMT and Cheaters. Lowering the requirements marginally is fine; but completely reducing them is not. Training skills to level 4 is childs play.



The Botters ALREADY commit to training to V, so what difference does it make training to 4?????

NADA.

THINK.

And they WILL not train to the lower standard Covetor only. You will not keep Botters out of Hulks. Roll

The higher 'ridiculous' requirements should be for a newer, different Mining machine of a sort. And not worth the train for Bots.

We are talking something large and expensive and not practical for botting. Should cost at least 600,000,000.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#42 - 2012-01-19 14:52:53 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:


All you are going to achieve by lowering the requirements; is making it easier to train up a bot for RMT and Cheaters. Lowering the requirements marginally is fine; but completely reducing them is not. Training skills to level 4 is childs play.


Sadly this point is valid. SNIP




No it is absolutely not.

The Botters will train to Hulk and avoid Covetor anyway. In fact they must.

Need a HARD HARD commited training Tier 3 something or other.....

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2012-01-19 14:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
[What part of my post is opinion?



"The real problem with mining is that it's boring and repetitive ............"



____________________________
My opinion is being a Nuller and doing Alarm Clock Ops is boring and repetitive AND unhealthy. But it is an OPINION.

THAT should be automated. Roll

See how idiotic it sounds ?

This is a SANDBOX, NOT a PvP exclusive game.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#44 - 2012-01-19 15:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
(hacking&scanning still have 0 ships) in the last few years. Isn't the mining noob safer in a BC or BS hull with reg lasers for a wile? Not getting ganked or suicided?



Learn how to play the game.

Learn that each race has an EXCELLENT DEDICATED T2 Scanning/Exploration Frigate.........and the T3 Strategic Cruisers are even BETTER as well.

YOU are missing some information or something.

AND............noobs are NOT in BS's.

AND....it's real hard to be ganked outside H'geddon.

Whatever............................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2012-01-19 15:04:34 UTC
Drew Solaert wrote:
Right first of all, OP your a **** and your attitude is worse than most of the trolls here. Manner Up.

Now thats out of the way, the serious stuff


tl;dr

You have no clue what you are on about with THAT statement.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#46 - 2012-01-19 15:05:41 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
I used to rant like you, then I took an arrow to the knee.



Is it still there ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Ulair Memmet
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-01-19 15:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ulair Memmet
I agree, the training for the Covetor used to **** me off aswell back then. Though i kept using it for some time simply because it was way cheaper and the Hulk was like 600 mill IIRC.
But lowering the Skill requirements to Barge 4 and Astrogeology 4 seems totally fine with me.

Though it's only a tiny step. Mining as it is now, is just a broken part of the game. Simply because it's boring as hell and way too easy to makro.

Edit: @OP: You really did rant in your post up there. You have a valid point, but nonetheless you should try to be more relaxed when writing such posts. It really helps to keep the discussion constructive and keeps the trolls out. Blink
ariana ailith
Dukalin
#48 - 2012-01-19 15:13:48 UTC
Covetor has great use for newer players. since they're also cheap18m isk or so. As opposed to the hulk which is nearing 200m?
So in that respect it can come to great use.

That said, i stuck with a retriever until i could afford the hulk. Making money while skilling for it etc. Made more sense to me. But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#49 - 2012-01-19 15:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Ulair Memmet wrote:
I agree, the training for the Covetor used to **** me off aswell back then. Though i kept using it for some time simply because it was way cheaper and the Hulk was like 600 mill IIRC.
But lowering the Skill requirements to Barge 4 and Astrogeology 4 seems totally fine with me.

Though it's only a tiny step. Mining as it is now, is just a broken part of the game. Simply because it's boring as hell and way too easy to makro.

Edit: @OP: You really did rant in your post up there. You have a valid point, but nonetheless you should try to be more relaxed when writing such posts. It really helps to keep the discussion constructive and keeps the trolls out. Blink



The trolling and other NONSENSICAL opinions get tiring by the end of the day.

Not feeling like Miss Congeniality by then.

And nothing keeps the trolls out.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#50 - 2012-01-19 15:17:04 UTC
ariana ailith wrote:
. But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship.



Point of this thread is THEY DO NOT.

Hulk is ONLY 18 hours away.....again...........


Lather, rinse, repeat.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#51 - 2012-01-19 15:20:29 UTC
I'll repeat again the goal of the major points as it still has not been addressed:




-------How many of you would have stuck around if you had to train 2 higher rank skills to Level 5 just to get into an Osprey ??

Name me ANY other ship in-game that the T2 skill requirement beyond T1 is mearly HOURS away .------------




"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
ariana ailith
Dukalin
#52 - 2012-01-19 15:21:52 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
ariana ailith wrote:
. But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship.



Point of this thread is THEY DO NOT.

Hulk is ONLY 18 hours away.....again...........


Lather, rinse, repeat.



Read my post again then comment...
If you don't have isk its not *just* 18 hours. Don't be stubborn now...
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#53 - 2012-01-19 15:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
ariana ailith wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
ariana ailith wrote:
. But i can imagine a bunch of people don't do that and buy a Covetor as "in-between" ship.



Point of this thread is THEY DO NOT.

Hulk is ONLY 18 hours away.....again...........


Lather, rinse, repeat.



Read my post again then comment...
If you don't have isk its not *just* 18 hours. Don't be stubborn now...



I have seen maybe 5 Covetors actually mining in over 2 years.

And that train for the Covetor is so long, along with the other Noob stuff, if one cannot buy a Hulk by THEN, you are doing something real wrong.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
ariana ailith
Dukalin
#54 - 2012-01-19 15:26:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

I have seen maybe 5 Covetors actually mining in over 2 years.


Ah yes, that obviously makes them useless... Because you didn't see them. Excellent point there sir :)

And with that i retreat from this now pointless thread.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#55 - 2012-01-19 15:28:46 UTC
ariana ailith wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

I have seen maybe 5 Covetors actually mining in over 2 years.


Ah yes, that obviously makes them useless... Because you didn't see them. Excellent point there sir :)

And with that i retreat from this now pointless thread.



They are not there. That is why they are not seen. Good-bye.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#56 - 2012-01-19 16:37:00 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Do you realize that you entire post is OPINION and NOT facts or ANYTHING a business can even take into serious consideration ?????

O P I N I O N.

YOU are a part of the problem IMHO.

Besides, you are part of TEST, so THERE is the real problem.................Roll

Take your Alliance name to heart and IGNORE yourSELF, please.


Aww so cute...

What part of my post is opinion? You said in the original post that the ice market is being flooded by bots. By the very nature of a bot they can only be programmed to perform a mindless repetitive task, and they happen to exceed at mining thus mining is a mindless and repetitive task. Mindless repetitive tasks are considered to be boring by humans.

It's also not an opinion, just an unfortunate fact, that you can do literally any other activity in this game and make more money and be safer while doing it than you can mining. Yes I'm in TEST, we've got a nullsec region full of ABC ores, why don't we mine there? Because it's easier to import minerals from empire. You can make more instant money by killing rats in the belts, why bother mining? You have to kill the rats anyway to mine in peace.

Don't take it too personally when I say that mining is boring and not worth a player's time and is easier to accompish with automated mindless robots, it is, but that goes for most other activities in this game. I've seen so many botting Tengus running sanctums out here in Vale and Geminate it's kinda depressing... Mainly because I can't catch them as easily as I can catch botting ravens due to them being interdiction nullified, and I can't just leave a bubble in a belt for them to get stuck in.

So yeah, just because the tutorial to the game gives you an ibis with a mining laser doesn't mean that mining is a legitimate career in Eve. CCP should just accept what the botters have shown them, that it should be passive and automated like moon mining and PI. Make an anchorable structure you can leave in belts and grav sites to gather ore for you.



high sec mining is boring, and i would imagine mining in null is boring, while in blue space. what's not boring? Ninja mining in someone elses SOV space because they do not use it anyways lol and doing it without losing a ship or anyone even knowing/noticing your there.

which is another concern with large blocs that have ABC ores just sitting there, that will not allow small mining corps to come and mine those ores because of some sort of selfish power trip. (i know because I have tried to work something out with TEST/GOONS and it failed)

back on topic, i have another toon that I was thinking of training to fly a Hulk, and as many times as I have trained to fly Hulks, it was very common that I just trained up Exhumers 1and didnt bother buying or flying a covetor. it should be looked at and tweaked.

also, mining/industry needs some love. I'm still trying to spread the idea of a low/null sec Roqual Variant that can refine ore at better rates of the POS refineries. similar cost in skills/sp and isk. that, or fix the POS refineries to be actually worth using. if you use the risk/reward argument. low/null refining at a POS is high risk, so refining should be better there than in stations. /end rant
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-01-19 16:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit McJafitson
Six replies in a row all to people who are telling you how wrong and dumb you are.

But that's just, like, your opinion, man!

Really though if mining weren't repetitive and boring, it wouldn't be possible to bot it.

If you can write me a bot that will do structure shoots for me that would be amazing and I'd love you forever.


arcca jeth wrote:
which is another concern with large blocs that have ABC ores just sitting there, that will not allow small mining corps to come and mine those ores because of some sort of selfish power trip. (i know because I have tried to work something out with TEST/GOONS and it failed)


We don't do renter networks, we have allies and partners, but no pets or renters. That's why we're trying to take tech moons.

If you want to rent space to mine ABC ores I'd suggest trying the southern alliances.

If you were to do any ninja mining in Fountain then you're a colossal moron, because as I said before you can do anything else in the game and make more money while being safer doing it. I mean we have effective -1.0 belt spawns in all systems because of the Serpentis NPC constellation
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#58 - 2012-01-20 13:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
arcca jeth wrote:
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
[quote=Krixtal Icefluxor]
Do you realize that you entire post is OPINION and NOT facts or ANYTHING a business can even take into serious consideration ?????

O P I N I O N.

YOU are a part of the problem IMHO.

Besides, you are part of TEST, so THERE is the real problem.................Roll

Take your Alliance name to heart and IGNORE yourSELF, please.



high sec mining is boring, and i would imagine mining in null is boring, while in blue space. what's not boring? Ninja mining in someone elses SOV space because they do not use it anyways lol and doing it without losing a ship or anyone even knowing/noticing your there.


.......A situation that does not involve High Sec at all, so most are denied this pleasure of invading SOV. But no danger ????

I do not find it BORING at all, as the dangers of mining in High now, with the active Goons, etc., makes it JUST as dangerous as Low or Null.

A gank can happen at any moment....always has been possible. Has caught me unawares twice in 2 years. And successfully escaping is a HUGE thrill and I LOVE the QQ on Local when they get uselessly podded.

Between trying to keep up with my rapid ability to eat rocks now (all relevant skills at 5, only thing I lack is Michi) and the rats, and keeping an eye on Local (although strangers DO stand out in Ammatar), I hardly stop moving when mining.

And besides, when we DO get a mining op going it's one of the better 'social hours' and activities available between players and actually strenghthens the community.

This is not boring at all, but if that's what you THINK, you are entitled to believe that.

Sorry, but I would rather not transfer the same thing to a situation where I 'm licking the Boots of a Null Alliance Leader, obeying every order during Alarm Clock Ops. That's MISERY.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#59 - 2012-01-20 13:08:11 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Six replies in a row all to people who are telling you how wrong and dumb you are.




Sorry I made you exercise your eyes.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#60 - 2012-01-20 13:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
....3 days and STILL nobody has touched the heart of the OP post:



___________________________
How many of you would have stuck around if you had to train 2 higher rank skills to Level 5 just to get into an Osprey ??

Name me ANY other ship in-game that the T2 skill requirement beyond T1 is mearly HOURS away (again).


I don't have any real solutions here, I'm just sayin' if this was the case with ABSOLUTELY ANY T1 COMBAT SHIP....we would NEVER EVER EVER hear the end of it.
___________________________






??????? Or is this a case of "Can't Touch This..." (cue Hammer)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
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