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Amy’s Cynical Guide to Gallente Politics.

Author
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#21 - 2016-12-08 20:11:04 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
(and no prospect of an influx of new slaves into the population)


And yet the slavers still raid Republic worlds and outposts, flying golden ships. Heck, just last week, Mokk was trying to sell slaves in-channel, looking to Nauplius as a prospective buyer.

Don't believe the hype, Lord Tash-Murkon. The flow of new slaves continues, it just lies about existing.


I apologize, what I mean is no large influx like those that could be sustained in the early days of the Reclamation. You are quite right that the illegal slave trade still manages to do a brisk business out in the fringes of the Empires. I was primarily concerned with the macro-economic outlook which is that beyond normal growth and replacement through reproduction the supply of slaves currently available are, widely speaking, locked in at the moment. This was further exacerbated by the exodus of slaves under the reign of the Late Empress Jamyl when they became citizens by Her proclamation.

The unlawful slaving in the periphery (which is not to imply I am so naive as to think that those slaves do not make their way as contraband back to the interior) will not, in the long term, save the Holder who treats slaves as expendable from eventual financial ruin.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#22 - 2016-12-08 20:12:56 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
Mr. Tash-Murkon, this might surprise you, but the Amarr is not the only group in the cluster that have slaves. I actually spend a lot of time dealing with slaves that were held captive by the Serpentis or Angels.

Here's a ******* horrible statistic: a sex slave has a life expectancy of about twenty-five years. How much health care do you think they actually get?


I am giving an accurate rendering of the larger picture for public benefit. After all, every ounce of energy wasted on the imaginary problem does detract from the real slaver scum you here reference.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#23 - 2016-12-08 20:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Saya Ishikari
Ameriya wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Ameriya wrote:
I don't try to save the cluster. I only worry about one patient at a time.
I'm not going to get involved in the sort of thing the VA is doing, either. It's not what I want to do. Someone else can lobby and work for public policy. But, if they are going to do it, they should at least do it effectively.

Very well. Ignoring all unanswered questions...

You are not a politician. You are disagreeing with those who are.

You are involved. Why?

Because at the other end of this are real patients. They are real people that actually need help.

This is the problem with high minded virtue signaling. I was once invited to a dinner, a charity event thanking donors and doctors. It was a health care thing, the foundation's name I will withhold. Anyways, I sat there in the ballroom sipping champagne out of fine crystal and eating filet off fine china looking at everything. That appreciation dinner probably cost as much as running a small clinic for a month. There was a holoographer there to make sure to take pictures of the wealthy as they celebrated their meager contribution and raised awareness of the substandard health care in the less fortunate parts of the Federation.

The appearance of doing something is not doing actually something. Sipping cocktails in a Caille bar and discussing how sad it is that there are people who do not have cellular regen to treat their illnesses is the chic, posh pastime of the well-minded Caille elite who prize their social capital as much as their financial capital. But does it heal a patient?

No more than diverting the efforts made by others. No matter how facile they seem

You would, by your own words, know more about the Caille elite than I. So I'll leave you to lecture on that topic.

Now then...

How has any of this diversion helped to save a single life? How has avoiding addressing points and queries offered advanced anything at all? And bar complete disclosure among all present of assets, activities, and the disposition of both, how can you be certain that this bill is the entirety of what is being done among those involved?

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Ameriya
Doomheim
#24 - 2016-12-08 20:23:06 UTC
This actually isn't really about health care. This is still about politics. This kind of 'appearance of doing something' rather than actually doing something is chronic among the political and social elites of our society. If someone wants actual change, I've told them how. It costs money, though, so the elites are prone to going more for the appearance of doing something. It gives them all the social capital with none of the financial capital spent.

There are some genuinely good people out there. There are people that actually work for real, meaningful change. There are politicians that actually want to serve their constituents. Sadly, they are the exception and not the rule.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2016-12-08 20:25:15 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
(and no prospect of an influx of new slaves into the population)


And yet the slavers still raid Republic worlds and outposts, flying golden ships. Heck, just last week, Mokk was trying to sell slaves in-channel, looking to Nauplius as a prospective buyer.

Don't believe the hype, Lord Tash-Murkon. The flow of new slaves continues, it just lies about existing.


You're conflating the inability of a well-meaning administration to eradicate the provision of a necessary economic need through legislation with some sort of evil scheme, I think.

The truth is that the Empire simply doesn't produce a sufficient surplus of new slaves through breeding programs in an economically viable enough way that it removes the ability of criminals like Sinjin Mokk (is he no longer Lord Mokk? Please don't construe the lack of honorific as an insult) to compete economically with the legitimate supply.

The only way to eradicate the illegal slave trade is to make the legal slave trade economically competetive through expansions and decentralisation - providing distributed hubs that offer a sufficient volume of slaves at economically competitive prices. This would, of course, incense the very polities within the Empire and outside it that are anti-slave.

So, the halfway-house solution begets the increase of slave raiding. The only way to stop it is to make it un-competetive.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#26 - 2016-12-08 20:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizage
Well if this isn't the most tasteless attempt at smearing I've seen on here in quite some time... So you get told you're acting rudely in the actual thread and decide set yourself on making a new one to continue to complain in a passive-aggressive whining fit that is so, so incredibly vapid, so completely, so entirely, so unabashedly devoid of any actual worthwhile content or truth that it makes the century of anti-Gallente propaganda from the State look like a charity fundraiser. (Seriously, give Nugo a call there's a job waiting.)

So for the sake of posterity lets go through this thing one paragraph at a time, so we can make absolutely sure we lay this stupidity low and make sure it never comes back up. Alright so firstly;

Ameriya wrote:
Firstly, this is not how our democracy works. No one over the age of twelve actually believes that all we have to do is write a letter to the senator, or the paper, and things will get done. Honestly, this is why I sometimes think that the Villore Assembly might be a deliberate distraction; no one can possibly be this stupid. This resolution accomplishes nothing.


Actually that's exactly how lobbying works. You talk with the political body and mailing letters is the most fundamental form of this, its lobbying with your vote. Of course things like money, or a lot of votes can be a lot more enticing, but this is the fundamentals of the system.

Gotta jump ahead a second here to because this a pretty hilarious u-turn;

Ameriya wrote:
In addition, they should also hire a good lobbying firm in Villore to make sure the current senators hear about this issue on a weekly basis. There are a few health care policy think tanks that the Villore Assembly can fund and bring about to their side, too. I’d also say a special interest group is something to look into.


What exactly do you think the Villore Assembly is/does? // See Above *Eye rolling intensifies* Oh and we can jam these points together nicely too.

Ameriya wrote:
If the Villore Assembly actually wanted change, there is a simple and direct way to make this happen: money. They are all capsuleers, not lacking for wealth. What the Villore Assembly should be is the Villore Assembly Political Action Committee. This is how the resolution should be written:


+

Ameriya wrote:
Here’s what worries me about the Villore Assembly: they seem to act like a blue ribbon commission, but with significantly less actual insight. Normally if someone wanted to get a blue ribbon commission for health care, they would get a couple of doctors, some hospital managers, a couple of high level bureaucrats from agencies that work with public health care, and maybe a couple of elected officials known for focusing on health care legislation.


Why do you think this resolution is being posted on a capsuleer board?? Is this not a place full of exceptional and exceptionally wealthy people. You are aware you aren't the Federal Government right? This is a Capsuleer board, not a statehouse. We are here looking for support from skilled people, like I said in the other topic... And of course funding for the effort I highly doubt would be snubbed either.

(CONT..)
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#27 - 2016-12-08 20:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizage
Ameriya wrote:
Delta and Gamma cities are disadvantaged compared to Alpha cities? Hold the presses. This is front page news! /s We know all this. Everyone knows this. Sure, they’re disadvantaged, but everyone knows that they’re not exactly living in filth with no health care.

Do we have a constitutional right to adequate health care? Of course, but the constitution is a little vague on what adequate is. This is for a reason: technology progresses.


Thank you for pointing out the reason for the resolution....? This is entirely the point. Delta and Gamma cities have fallen to far behind, this resolution is designed to make aware that increasing gap.

Ameriya wrote:
Anecdotal evidence actually works pretty well in this case.


Not going to lie, it took a serious amount of effort to not just shut my neocom off right here. But allow me to demonstrate why Anecdotal evidence never, ever, never works.

Ahem,

"President Roden says you're wrong."

See? You can't prove he never said that. Simply put, people lie.

Ameriya wrote:
Okay, back to the resolution. It asked for an inventory from the hospitals! !!! How can you know that they are at a disadvantage if you don’t know what they have? This should have been first in your fact finding. Step one: ensure there is a problem. Is there a problem? Yup. Could I tell you how much of one? Nope. And I know more about health care than the Villore Assembly people do. But, calling for an inventory? Sure, the Senate will do that. They’ll have answers for you in several years about the results of the inventory. Congratulations, you’ve let the Senate appear to be doing something without actually doing something.


You are wrong, just pure and simply wrong here. Government bodies are inherently distrustful of third-party fact finding for the exact reason I just stated above, people lie.

Now what I'm assuming happened here is you confused a VA resolution (Our term, our document) with a Federal Bill (A legal obligation of the Federation.) So let me lay out how this would work.

1) *IF* the resolution receives widespread acknowledgement and acceptance, and the Federation decides to move forward on the suggestion, they would appoint a Federally mandated committee.

2) The committee would oversee determining which Gamma and Delta Cities are in fact disadvantaged.

3) It would be up to those Gamma and Delta Cities to prove that they are in fact this way. I.e. By providing inventory to the Committee which they could then, under federal mandate audit.

4) Then and only then would funds be released.

Quite frankly, you don't know what you're talking about and it appears you've taken your politics lessons from Gallente Holoreels instead of actual classes.


Seriously, rename this topic to "Amy's completely uninformed Guide to Gallente Politics," at least something in this whole mess can be true.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2016-12-08 20:29:49 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
This actually isn't really about health care. This is still about politics. This kind of 'appearance of doing something' rather than actually doing something is chronic among the political and social elites of our society. If someone wants actual change, I've told them how. It costs money, though, so the elites are prone to going more for the appearance of doing something. It gives them all the social capital with none of the financial capital spent.

There are some genuinely good people out there. There are people that actually work for real, meaningful change. There are politicians that actually want to serve their constituents. Sadly, they are the exception and not the rule.


Why do you think that when I wanted to make a difference I went for a private scheme with the backing of private concerns and the blessing of politicians, rather than getting the politicians to spend their own capital on it?

The difference is that I'm doing a very limited scale project - something suitable to the resources of a small group of capsuleers. Proividing proper healthcare for a hundred or so cities of millions of people is truly a problem that requires the governmental touch. The real issue here is that the citizens of the better cities in the Federation don't care sufficiently for the welfare of their brethren to chip in sufficient funds for universal healthcare.

How do you solve a problem like that?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#29 - 2016-12-08 20:31:28 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
This actually isn't really about health care. This is still about politics. This kind of 'appearance of doing something' rather than actually doing something is chronic among the political and social elites of our society. If someone wants actual change, I've told them how. It costs money, though, so the elites are prone to going more for the appearance of doing something. It gives them all the social capital with none of the financial capital spent.

There are some genuinely good people out there. There are people that actually work for real, meaningful change. There are politicians that actually want to serve their constituents. Sadly, they are the exception and not the rule.

When you decide whether it's about patients or politics, I'll be around.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Xun Yu
Sanxing
#30 - 2016-12-08 20:33:18 UTC
For those interested in discussing the functions and structure of the Villore Assembly, or indeed how the governments of the Federation actually operate, I am always available for a private discussion or meeting.

Warmly,
Taishou Xun Yu

Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation

Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing

Merchant Rova
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2016-12-08 20:34:59 UTC
Kirstin the Caldari knows more about the Federation than a sextoy catgirl.

'cause you don't know much, hon.
Ameriya
Doomheim
#32 - 2016-12-08 20:35:09 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Stuff.

Your resolution isn't going to get noticed. As far as anecdotal evidence, having the actual Eves (not his real name) come and talk about his experiences puts a face on your issue. And that's in addition to the lobbying and campaign contributions.
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#33 - 2016-12-08 20:41:42 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
Vizage wrote:
Stuff.

Your resolution isn't going to get noticed. As far as anecdotal evidence, having the actual Eves (not his real name) come and talk about his experiences puts a face on your issue. And that's in addition to the lobbying and campaign contributions.



Eves also came to me and told he really liked the healthcare he got.

I shouldn't have to say this again, but see?

And as far as it goes about our Resolution not being noticed you might actually be right, but that never means its not worth trying. If you wanna be a lazy member of your society allowing the system to maintain status quo because "Its to hard to get noticed." Be my guest, but don't come in here and post these long passive-aggressive whines, and not expect people to call you out on them.

It's a tired attempt at looking smart at the very best, and a troubling display of ego at its very worst.
Ameriya
Doomheim
#34 - 2016-12-08 20:42:28 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Ameriya wrote:
This actually isn't really about health care. This is still about politics. This kind of 'appearance of doing something' rather than actually doing something is chronic among the political and social elites of our society. If someone wants actual change, I've told them how. It costs money, though, so the elites are prone to going more for the appearance of doing something. It gives them all the social capital with none of the financial capital spent.

There are some genuinely good people out there. There are people that actually work for real, meaningful change. There are politicians that actually want to serve their constituents. Sadly, they are the exception and not the rule.

When you decide whether it's about patients or politics, I'll be around.


We can talk patients somewhere else. Send me a mail or convo me.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ameriya wrote:
This actually isn't really about health care. This is still about politics. This kind of 'appearance of doing something' rather than actually doing something is chronic among the political and social elites of our society. If someone wants actual change, I've told them how. It costs money, though, so the elites are prone to going more for the appearance of doing something. It gives them all the social capital with none of the financial capital spent.

There are some genuinely good people out there. There are people that actually work for real, meaningful change. There are politicians that actually want to serve their constituents. Sadly, they are the exception and not the rule.


Why do you think that when I wanted to make a difference I went for a private scheme with the backing of private concerns and the blessing of politicians, rather than getting the politicians to spend their own capital on it?

The difference is that I'm doing a very limited scale project - something suitable to the resources of a small group of capsuleers. Proividing proper healthcare for a hundred or so cities of millions of people is truly a problem that requires the governmental touch. The real issue here is that the citizens of the better cities in the Federation don't care sufficiently for the welfare of their brethren to chip in sufficient funds for universal healthcare.

How do you solve a problem like that?

A huge part of that is ensuring that the right people are elected to the right positions to change it. Even then? Things might get better, but won't be perfect. However, perfect is the enemy of the good.
Ameriya
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-12-08 20:46:43 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Ameriya wrote:
Vizage wrote:
Stuff.

Your resolution isn't going to get noticed. As far as anecdotal evidence, having the actual Eves (not his real name) come and talk about his experiences puts a face on your issue. And that's in addition to the lobbying and campaign contributions.



Eves also came to me and told he really liked the healthcare he got.

You're really an idiot.

Vizage wrote:

I shouldn't have to say this again, but see?

And as far as it goes about our Resolution not being noticed you might actually be right, but that never means its not worth trying. If you wanna be a lazy member of your society allowing the system to maintain status quo because "Its to hard to get noticed." Be my guest, but don't come in here and post these long passive-aggressive whines, and not expect people to call you out on them.

It's a tired attempt at looking smart at the very best, and a troubling display of ego at its very worst.

The issue is that you are not trying. You're just virtue signaling and expecting to get praise. Don't go posting your resolutions on the IGS and not expect people to call you out on them.
Merchant Rova
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2016-12-08 20:49:11 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
Maybe you missed the fact where I am an actual doctor that actually practices medicine and actually treats patients?

Like, tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't the first rule of being a doctor to "do no harm"? I mean, this thread gave me cancer, so I don't really have a ton of faith.
Garion Avarr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2016-12-08 20:49:18 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

I hate to be terribly non-idealistic, but anyone who thinks things get done by means other than rampant corruption is just naive.

It's not corruption, it's exchanging mutual favors and having an excellent network of friends.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#38 - 2016-12-08 20:55:29 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Well if this isn't the most tasteless attempt at smearing I've seen on here in quite some time...


Stop projecting, this isn't a movie theater.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#39 - 2016-12-08 20:55:57 UTC
Ameriya wrote:
words


One big problem is that you're assuming that just because the Assembly, by the nature of being a lobbying group, is political by nature that we fall into the assorted crags of some of the realer problems of political systems across the cluster. The VA isn't virtue signaling for popularity. This resolution, just like all the others, was posted on schedule once passed through the relevant subcommittees.

The people behind keying the resolution fully intend to follow through with our promises. You can sit here and whinge, commit to your cynicism, do whatever - that's fine. It doesn't matter just how much you make it evident your misunderstandings of the workings between nation states, franchising, Federal oversight, and the innards of the political intricacies of the Federation. Embarrassing yourself isn't really necessary in aiding the dejected. You're free to, though.



Also, Arrendis, I wasn't validating corruption and Senate manipulation to be a proper political tactic. Just wording. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#40 - 2016-12-08 20:57:31 UTC
Ameriya wrote:

Vizage wrote:

I shouldn't have to say this again, but see?

And as far as it goes about our Resolution not being noticed you might actually be right, but that never means its not worth trying. If you wanna be a lazy member of your society allowing the system to maintain status quo because "Its to hard to get noticed." Be my guest, but don't come in here and post these long passive-aggressive whines, and not expect people to call you out on them.

It's a tired attempt at looking smart at the very best, and a troubling display of ego at its very worst.

The issue is that you are not trying. You're just virtue signaling and expecting to get praise. Don't go posting your resolutions on the IGS and not expect people to call you out on them.


If you wanna call it "not trying" be my guest, but I suspect you would consider anything "not trying" by your working definition until it actually worked.

Actually no, I shouldn't have to explain this. Short of bribing officials this is exactly how lobbying works, first you gather public support (if you deem it necessary, which we do,) find backers and supporters, funding as well, AND THEN you push it towards the actual Federal Government.

You seem to think we are here trying to get you to turn this resolution into a bill. We aren't, the Federation hasn't seen it formally yet. So by all means call it "not trying," because honestly it would take more effort to teach you actual politics than it would to get this thing noticed so I'm gonna save my energy for the one I think is actually important(hint: it's not you.)

Ameriya wrote:

You're really an idiot.


I take it from this you still don't actually understand why Anecdotal evidence is bad.

P.s. Everyone says you're the idiot.

P.p.s See?