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Nerfing Caldari?

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ISquishWorms
#301 - 2012-01-19 12:46:11 UTC
Is it April the 1st already?

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
Babcja
MK Galaxy Operations
#302 - 2012-01-19 12:49:13 UTC
Nerfing caldari?
If you do so don't just take the drake but take all the ships for a rebalancing and on that note.. not jsut caldari take all races then as nerfing one ship opens up a chain of ships that need rebalancing their bonusses
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#303 - 2012-01-19 12:52:14 UTC
Oh god this is hilarious - I've been flying Drakes as my primary PvP ship before they were ever considered FOTM (early 2009ish) progressing from a kiting three BCU drake up to the modern nanodrake, and I am absolutely fine with an RoF or missile velocity boost instead of the shield resist penalty.

100k EHP bricked drakes aren't a threat to anyone with half a brain, and the opportunity to use HAMs effectively (with a missile velocity boost) as well as a general DPS boost is just too sexy to pass up.

And if CCP somehow thinks that boosting the Drakes DPS is going to make the Nighthawk more competitive, someone should correct them. The Nighthawk needs equivalent DPS to the drake at a minimum to justify existing, as well as a significant grid boost.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#304 - 2012-01-19 12:53:30 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So 15 pages into this what is the current consensus?!

There's none. Instead there are generally 3 types of posts:

1) nerfing drake??? U MAD???
2) w00t! \o/
3) meh, rebalance caldari as a whole

Hope it helps.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#305 - 2012-01-19 13:10:25 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So 15 pages into this what is the current consensus?!

It seems to be "Nerf Drake, Buff Ferox"
Willl Adama
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#306 - 2012-01-19 13:23:19 UTC
How the CSM and CCP managed to agree upon the talos being worse than the naga is completely beyond me

Hi
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2012-01-19 13:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
The HAM Drake is going to make a comeback and this is what it will be able to do:

[Drake, HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hobgoblin II x5

Needs 1% pg implant.

Does 615 dps with Rage HAMs, 553 with Navy HAMs, plus 99 drone dps. 62k EHP, 98 shield/sec peak regen, 1038 m/s speed. Can deal selectable damage types. Range on HAMs is 30k, on Rage HAMs 27k.

That's still pretty damn good.
Lekgoa
Free State Project
#308 - 2012-01-19 13:45:14 UTC
Val MeR wrote:
Lekgoa wrote:
If this actually happens it'll be a buff for Caldari. Here's why:

Drake "nerf": Caldari has enough bricks already. This will give them a decent T1 dps boat.

ECM nerf: The "complete lockdown" mechanic makes pvp straight up boring no matter which side you're on. Nerfing jam boats, particularly falcons, will open up a wider range of gang setups and make the game more fun for everyone.

And if you want some concrete proof that CCP still likes Caldari, check out the new Hawk stats.


I would give up Drake, make it another glass cannon with missles for all I care, in favor of buffing other Caldari ships, but it seems Drakes make some players frustrated on a regular basis... so lets wait and see what solution CCP comes up with and I hope it won't be a simple nerf to cripple a good, working ship, into "Raven state"... (now I know why raven looks this way... some surgeons had a go at it while it was good to make it what it is now... “the looks” just proves my theory Smile).

Hawk? Would you care to elaborate how is it any better than other races Assault Frigates?


The Hawk is getting an extra mid, 25% RoF, and more cpu in the upcoming patch. That's a way bigger buff than most of the other af's. Enyo and Retribution are also getting a lot of love, but they were horribly broken before this. I admit I've never flown a Hawk, but I've flown with and against them plenty of times and I can tell you that it's gonna be beastly. I wasn't implying that it's better than the other races, only that CCP has given it what looks to be an awesome buff.

As for the Drake, we'll see. It would be easy for CCP to mess it up, but if they do it right I honestly think it'll be a more useful ship afterwards.
Lekgoa
Free State Project
#309 - 2012-01-19 13:49:49 UTC
Willl Adama wrote:
How the CSM and CCP managed to agree upon the talos being worse than the naga is completely beyond me


They went into EFT, saw that a blaster naga has more ehp, dps, and speed than an armor talos, and assumed that meant it was better.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#310 - 2012-01-19 14:03:00 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The HAM Drake is going to make a comeback and this is what it will be able to do:

[Drake, HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hobgoblin II x5

Needs 1% pg implant.

Does 615 dps with Rage HAMs, 553 with Navy HAMs, plus 99 drone dps. 62k EHP, 98 shield/sec peak regen, 1038 m/s speed. Can deal selectable damage types. Range on HAMs is 30k, on Rage HAMs 27k.

That's still pretty damn good.

Thats actually a bit scary, compared to current common setups.

Especially with the viable selectable damage types, I think the Drake will increase in popularity due to this "nerf".
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#311 - 2012-01-19 14:07:20 UTC
Quote:
They went into EFT, saw that a blaster naga has more ehp, dps, and speed than an armor talos, and assumed that meant it was better.


No its called playing the game, something I suggest you try before posting stupid comments.

Quote:
Does 615 dps with Rage HAMs, 553 with Navy HAMs, plus 99 drone dps. 62k EHP, 98 shield/sec peak regen, 1038 m/s speed. Can deal selectable damage types. Range on HAMs is 30k, on Rage HAMs 27k.


Yep, nearly the DPS of a 'cane with more EHP, similar top speed, + a web. TBH this is still pretty overpowered compared to the other T3 BCs. Hell, its probably STILL outputting more dps than a decent armour tanked 'cane.......

Give the 'cane a 5/5 mid/low layout! That'll put 'canes on par with the new drakes, then boost the myrm by switching the rep bonus to something useful (resists or base armour) and give the harby better PG + switch the laser cap bonus to ROF or tank and if needed give the ship a bit more cap.

That should have the 4 Tier3s on par, then you can just buff the tier 2s up to be as good and we have a plan!

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Gempei
Marvinovi pratele
#312 - 2012-01-19 14:22:32 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
That's still pretty damn good.

its with all lvl5 - how many people have all lvl5 skills? And signature 2800m, yes pretty damm good Big smile

For eft warriors: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/16681-Dual-Neut-Plated-Hurricane.html

Tank: 69621 EHP
DPS: 504 with tech 1 EMP
Neut: 30 cap/s
Speed: 1025 (MWD), 182 m/s without
Cap life: Just MWD: 11m 45s

oh noooo! Shocked more ehp than drake - nerf the hurricane!!! Cool
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#313 - 2012-01-19 14:35:04 UTC
The only things drake's do well is explode
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#314 - 2012-01-19 15:28:35 UTC
Melangell.[/quote wrote:


why did they talk to the group whose job it is to represent the players views first rather than coming straight to the players?

nope you got me there. I can't see any reason a group designed to represent the players views would be consulted in this.

meantime in-between your entitled raging and my inconsequential cheering of changing a boat I am not a fan of for no other reason than that :- there is some really good well thought out commentary on this thread.....


I think you need to get your head out of that dark place.

The CSM doesn't represent the playerbase. It represents it's voters.

If everyone would agree with the current CSM they would have had 100% of the votes.
Not-Apsalar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2012-01-19 16:40:01 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The HAM Drake is going to make a comeback and this is what it will be able to do:

[Drake, HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hobgoblin II x5

Needs 1% pg implant.

Does 615 dps with Rage HAMs, 553 with Navy HAMs, plus 99 drone dps. 62k EHP, 98 shield/sec peak regen, 1038 m/s speed. Can deal selectable damage types. Range on HAMs is 30k, on Rage HAMs 27k.

That's still pretty damn good.


Except the agility and speed sucks. Need at least one nano to be somewhat effective in anything but gate camps/station games.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2012-01-19 16:52:15 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The HAM Drake is going to make a comeback and this is what it will be able to do:

[Drake, HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hobgoblin II x5

Needs 1% pg implant.

Does 615 dps with Rage HAMs, 553 with Navy HAMs, plus 99 drone dps. 62k EHP, 98 shield/sec peak regen, 1038 m/s speed. Can deal selectable damage types. Range on HAMs is 30k, on Rage HAMs 27k.

That's still pretty damn good.



shield Myrm with a rack of 425's can already do this, if not better, with the same EHP. looks like it would be a good adjustment. Cane could use a bit of a spanking as well
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2012-01-19 17:19:28 UTC
Val MeR wrote:
http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf

It seems like CCP is favoring Minmatar, while CSM is made up of Gallente... well, of course its all made in the name of "balance", but see for yourself if you like those small changes:

“CCP and the CSM discussed the new Tier 3 battlecruisers. CCP noted that the Talos needs adjustment upwards; the CSM noted that the Naga is too powerful compared to the Talos. CCP acknowledged this, citing the difficulty of finding a role for blasters as well as the power of passive shield tanking.”

Naga is overpowered? Power of passive shield tanking on a Naga?

“CCP and the CSM agreed that remote sensor dampeners have been rendered useless and need rebalancing. CCP wants to look into this, as well as the damping ships themselves. The CSM also discussed the merits (or lack thereof) of ECM.”

Yeah, Caldari are unworthy of ECM magic…

“The CSM and CCP both acknowledged the need to rebalance Drake, which ‘does everything too too well’. CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus and instead gain a rate of fire bonus and a missile velocity bonus. The CSM vehemently approved of this idea. CCP and the CSM also agreed that this possible change to the Drake would help add more uniqueness to the Nighthawk, which is presently overshadowed entirely by the Drake.”

Nerf Drake, so it can become as “desirable” as “offensive Raven or Caracal”… NightHawk will finally “shine”… at least when compared to a NEW "offensive Drake."


Change Drake to make NH shine? *Sigh* that is just bad balancing right there. Refer to the countless threads on S&M about the NH over the years on how to make it shine. Tip: The grid it has is just far too low. An extra mid slot or launcher slot would not hurt either.
Spineker
#318 - 2012-01-19 17:58:24 UTC
Chandaris wrote:
The only things drake's do well is explode




Haha so true.

Drake has always been over hyped. Anyone with skills and knowledge can rip it apart. It is amazing how many people have never even fought one yet have so many opinions on it. Some sort of social dysfunction with humans because they have no experience but instantly relate as a pack of foaming rabid voices in agreement with something they don't even understand. The years of yelling NERF NERF NERF has been like Pavlov’s Dogs to some people. Say Drake and the nerfherders start salivating.

Anytime I hear the words "CSM CCP talking of "balancing"" makes me throw up a little.
Spineker
#319 - 2012-01-19 18:00:13 UTC
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Val MeR wrote:
http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf

It seems like CCP is favoring Minmatar, while CSM is made up of Gallente... well, of course its all made in the name of "balance", but see for yourself if you like those small changes:

“CCP and the CSM discussed the new Tier 3 battlecruisers. CCP noted that the Talos needs adjustment upwards; the CSM noted that the Naga is too powerful compared to the Talos. CCP acknowledged this, citing the difficulty of finding a role for blasters as well as the power of passive shield tanking.”

Naga is overpowered? Power of passive shield tanking on a Naga?

“CCP and the CSM agreed that remote sensor dampeners have been rendered useless and need rebalancing. CCP wants to look into this, as well as the damping ships themselves. The CSM also discussed the merits (or lack thereof) of ECM.”

Yeah, Caldari are unworthy of ECM magic…

“The CSM and CCP both acknowledged the need to rebalance Drake, which ‘does everything too too well’. CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus and instead gain a rate of fire bonus and a missile velocity bonus. The CSM vehemently approved of this idea. CCP and the CSM also agreed that this possible change to the Drake would help add more uniqueness to the Nighthawk, which is presently overshadowed entirely by the Drake.”

Nerf Drake, so it can become as “desirable” as “offensive Raven or Caracal”… NightHawk will finally “shine”… at least when compared to a NEW "offensive Drake."


Change Drake to make NH shine? *Sigh* that is just bad balancing right there. Refer to the countless threads on S&M about the NH over the years on how to make it shine. Tip: The grid it has is just far too low. An extra mid slot or launcher slot would not hurt either.



SO true and so easy to fix!!!! BUt they would rather nerf something into a pile of steamingdung to make another pile look better. Such Logic is why there have been so many failures in this game when it comes to balancing.
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#320 - 2012-01-19 18:34:11 UTC
Go ahead, nerf away. Start down that easy path of nerfing one thing to make
something else seen better by comparison rather than boosting that which
you feel needs to be better.

I'll just sit back and enjoy watching the fail, and seeing new tears pop up
somewhere else.