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Risk Aversion...
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Spectre80
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-01-19 12:57:31 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Spectre80 wrote:
also i have podded lots of people myself but i must agree that pod killing is ****. losing implants and hardwirings is many times much more expensive than losing ships and training times are so much shorter while using implants that i fully understand why some people dont want to go risking fighting in clones that have implants. ofc you can always clonejump to empty clone but 24h timer is way too long for it to be very viable.

only plug in implants for the skill you currently train, don't use +5s

that way a pod loss should be anywhere between 10m and 40m

I like to use two +3 implants and one AY-1, that's less than 30m per pod (and even in 0.0 I lose pods much less frequently than ships)


i dont use +5 at all and very rarely +4 even. hardwirings i like to use cos they give bonuses to combat and some help with tight ship fittings (Cpu/PG). by the way my empty medical clone costs 30 mil with current skillpoints. Blink
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-01-19 13:27:21 UTC
Make the victims of kill and lossmails anonymous Cool

Getting those afraid of their reputation to engage in risky PVP sounds like a win to me. Blink
Calzares
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-19 13:40:54 UTC
For the dude with the Nave Geddon (I think it was a Geddon) who lost it in PVE - the corp need not know - it doesnt show up on a KB.

As for PVP risk aversion I really dont see the point of being scared. Yes, loads of kills doesnt look good on a KB but if you are part of a decent alliance / corp then 5 solo deaths will easily be swallowed up by the kills you will get in fleet. If you arent getting the kills in fleet then maybe you need to look at who you fly with?

As for posting with alts, maybe its because someone who posts an opinion and isnt part of an uber alliance gets the **** ripped out of them by the younglings who are always ready to pounce around here.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#44 - 2012-01-19 13:45:28 UTC
People who "go looking for PvP" open up the map and select options.

Do they select Ships killed, pods kills in the last hour? No, they select NPCs killed in the last hr. They want easy farm kills from rat fit ISK grinders.

Bravado is a shield.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#45 - 2012-01-19 15:00:45 UTC
Skydell wrote:
People who "go looking for PvP" open up the map and select options.

Do they select Ships killed, pods kills in the last hour? No, they select NPCs killed in the last hr. They want easy farm kills from rat fit ISK grinders.

Bravado is a shield.



A minority hunt bears but broad generalisations just make you sound dumb.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-01-19 15:08:03 UTC
Morganta wrote:
now I could understand if they were in decent ships and didn't want to take the risk, but they were in freekin disposable ships, if they got even one of us they could lose the entire fleet and still be ahead in isk destroyed.

problems are:
1. ISK in KM aren't ISK: you can't use it to buy something. This is just e-peen "How greatly i damaged someone". And e-peen is such a special thing. Personally i don't care about it except when i kill bot.
2. ISK in LM is ISK: you NEED to buy stuff you lost to play again.
3. Time to build your next ship after lost

Personally one thing always stoped me from active pvp-ing: i'm too lazy to rebuild my ship after loss. That's why i evaded pvp for long time. Then i solved this problem: i bought and prepared several ships Lol Now i don't care if i loose something.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-01-19 15:18:04 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I don't see the point in letting 24 hours out of your +5s put you off PVP. It's hardly a setback and you get to have fun. I see it as an excuse rather than a valid reason.

I used to be very averse to losing skill training time, when I first started the game, because I had this feeling about how I had to catch up with everyone else and how it would be woefully inefficient to do so. At some point I came to the realization that I already have the skills to fly everything I actually want to fly and that the only reason I'm still training skills at all is because, well, why wouldn't you? It's a progress bar that fills itself, you may as well let it. I've recently switched to flying pretty much nothing but Rifters, which I've been able to fly with perfect or near-perfect skills for a couple of years now, and I honestly don't care if I lose a couple of hours on training another skill that I'm only training because it's an optimal use of my present neural remap.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-01-19 15:18:50 UTC
Spectre80 wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
Spectre80 wrote:
also i have podded lots of people myself but i must agree that pod killing is ****. losing implants and hardwirings is many times much more expensive than losing ships and training times are so much shorter while using implants that i fully understand why some people dont want to go risking fighting in clones that have implants. ofc you can always clonejump to empty clone but 24h timer is way too long for it to be very viable.

only plug in implants for the skill you currently train, don't use +5s

that way a pod loss should be anywhere between 10m and 40m

I like to use two +3 implants and one AY-1, that's less than 30m per pod (and even in 0.0 I lose pods much less frequently than ships)


i dont use +5 at all and very rarely +4 even. hardwirings i like to use cos they give bonuses to combat and some help with tight ship fittings (Cpu/PG). by the way my empty medical clone costs 30 mil with current skillpoints. Blink

30mil really isn't all that much money, I mean it's like what half an hour or less of ratting or running missions?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-01-19 15:21:43 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Spectre80 wrote:
also i have podded lots of people myself but i must agree that pod killing is ****. losing implants and hardwirings is many times much more expensive than losing ships and training times are so much shorter while using implants that i fully understand why some people dont want to go risking fighting in clones that have implants. ofc you can always clonejump to empty clone but 24h timer is way too long for it to be very viable.

only plug in implants for the skill you currently train, don't use +5s

that way a pod loss should be anywhere between 10m and 40m

I like to use two +3 implants and one AY-1, that's less than 30m per pod (and even in 0.0 I lose pods much less frequently than ships)

I have a couple of jump clones that are "learning clones," which I try to remember to jump clone into when I am burned out and not going to realistically play EVE for several days or weeks at a time, but the clones I am most frequently in when I am actually playing the game are very similar: +3 implants for the attributes corresponding to the skill I am training, and maybe a hardwiring that fits the purpose such as a KMB-50 if I am flying a Drake.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Othran
Route One
#50 - 2012-01-19 15:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
For self-destructs - its killboard stats and/or being in a crappy corp/alliance;

For many others its killboard stats and/or being in a crappy corp/alliance.

There's a pattern emerging here dear reader, see if you can spot it Blink

The rest?

I don't think anyone minds losing stuff in the now legendary "good fight". The problem is that most of the fights that most people are involved in aren't a "good fight". Its a gank or simply being called primary because you're nearest the opposing FC.

There's a lack of control over your personal involvement in the fight. Of course you could argue thats what happens if you fly in a "blob" or come across one but people are people mmm?

Nobody likes losing shiny stuff in crappy fights - of course one person's "good fight" is another's "crappy fight".

I stopped looking at my own stats ages ago. These days on the rare occasions I undock and kill something I have to be reminded to post the KM if someone else is on it. I'm sure some will point out my stats aren't that good but I don't care, and the reason I don't care is because I don't bother looking.

KMs play an important part though - they're great intel for example Twisted
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#51 - 2012-01-19 15:30:11 UTC
Skydell wrote:
People who "go looking for PvP" open up the map and select options.

Do they select Ships killed, pods kills in the last hour? No, they select NPCs killed in the last hr. They want easy farm kills from rat fit ISK grinders.

Bravado is a shield.

Who does this? Or is this based on your strawman of a pvper?

Ships killed, Pods killed, Jumps in last hour, Average pilots in space.

As to the OP: My playing style is generally that of old brave Sir robin. I'll try to get a few pokes in but will gleefully run like a screaming loony at the second sign of trouble. There are many combined factors to why I prefer this style, but mostly it comes down to having to work to replace ships. I hate mission grinding. It takes me an hour of pve content i dont want to run to get a ship that I could lose in 1 minute of combat, or I can be cautious and it can last me a week or more. Go figure why I rarely engage above the odds. As a rookie pilot I also admit it's as much a tactical victory (and equally satisfying) for me to escape from a fight I wasn't winning as it is winning a fight I knew I could handle.

To sum that up: The reason I am a suicidal loon in Counterstrike (or insert other game here) is that I can be, and can immediatley join back in the fun. The reason I play so cautiously in eve is that I dont enjoy having to run forced pve content in order to be eligble to go out and have fun again.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#52 - 2012-01-19 15:30:26 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Skydell wrote:
People who "go looking for PvP" open up the map and select options.

Do they select Ships killed, pods kills in the last hour? No, they select NPCs killed in the last hr. They want easy farm kills from rat fit ISK grinders.

Bravado is a shield.



A minority hunt bears but broad generalisations just make you sound dumb.


I'm sure dotlan can confirm this. What gets more clicks, PvE kill stat pages or PvP activity pages?

I'd be dumb if I was wrong. I'm sure I am right, that makes you a sore loser. Standard pro quo for the self claimed PvP bear.
Othran
Route One
#53 - 2012-01-19 15:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Calzares wrote:
For the dude with the Nave Geddon (I think it was a Geddon) who lost it in PVE - the corp need not know - it doesnt show up on a KB.


The CEO of the corp gets ALL corp members lossmails and killmails. It doesn't matter who killed you.

It has bugger all to do with the corp but it will show up. Edit - and this is the difference between a decent corp and a bad one, when this happened to someone in a corp I was CEO (or director, can't remember) we would mercilessly rip the **** out of them. Thats where it ended though - their ship, their loss.
Vyl Vit
#54 - 2012-01-19 15:46:08 UTC
Yeah. PvP is hard. Pick targets weaker than you. Run from those stronger than you. Desperately faceroll if you're caught. Come to the forums and rag on hi sec players like you're some heroic brave guy. It's almost...rocket science!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
ShipToaster
#55 - 2012-01-19 15:49:16 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I don't see the point in letting 24 hours out of your +5s put you off PVP. It's hardly a setback and you get to have fun. I see it as an excuse rather than a valid reason.


I dont understand it either but it is carebear logic and you see the evidence of it all the time. Gaining skill points (and ISK) is more important than fun.

.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#56 - 2012-01-19 16:06:45 UTC
Personally, I just get tired of jumping into a potential good fight, only to find I'm actually up against yet another PL cyno alt. Boring doesn't even begin to describe it. They're not the only ones who do it, but in my travels they're by far the worst "offenders". I can understand wanting to bring enough firepower to win, but carriers, supercarriers and the odd titan vs a battlecruiser or two? That seems to me like a good way to kill PvP off.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#57 - 2012-01-19 16:20:31 UTC
Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
Skydell wrote:
People who "go looking for PvP" open up the map and select options.

Do they select Ships killed, pods kills in the last hour? No, they select NPCs killed in the last hr. They want easy farm kills from rat fit ISK grinders.

Bravado is a shield.

Who does this? Or is this based on your strawman of a pvper?

Ships killed, Pods killed, Jumps in last hour, Average pilots in space.

As to the OP: My playing style is generally that of old brave Sir robin. I'll try to get a few pokes in but will gleefully run like a screaming loony at the second sign of trouble. There are many combined factors to why I prefer this style, but mostly it comes down to having to work to replace ships. I hate mission grinding. It takes me an hour of pve content i dont want to run to get a ship that I could lose in 1 minute of combat, or I can be cautious and it can last me a week or more. Go figure why I rarely engage above the odds. As a rookie pilot I also admit it's as much a tactical victory (and equally satisfying) for me to escape from a fight I wasn't winning as it is winning a fight I knew I could handle.

To sum that up: The reason I am a suicidal loon in Counterstrike (or insert other game here) is that I can be, and can immediatley join back in the fun. The reason I play so cautiously in eve is that I dont enjoy having to run forced pve content in order to be eligble to go out and have fun again.


Your reason is as valid as any. The PvE based cooldown does take from any entertainment value of 5 minute orgasm based PvP. Some say it's the hunt, not the kill but it invariably ends in loss.

Who does map runs for PvE systems? Usually solo, small gang and Alt warrior/ griefers. Gang fleets as a rule just roam a local region they don't have blue.

My issue is, it's just too predictable. I'd rather scan down worm holes from high sec and keep scanning untill I end up back in high sec just to see where I end up.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#58 - 2012-01-19 16:29:13 UTC
All this dances around the core reason, the reason why one player is willing to risk their entire wallet and loss of SP for being in a low implant clone just to get one kill, where another player is not willing to take such risk. I think the difference is one gets The Rush, and the other does not.

The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after stress or a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from stress and adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players.

People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing.

So what non-PvP players are adverse to is feeling sick from adrenaline and stress.

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Ocih
Space Mermaids
#59 - 2012-01-19 16:33:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
All this dances around the core reason, the reason why one player is willing to risk their entire wallet and loss of SP for being in a low implant clone just to get one kill, where another player is not willing to take such risk. I think the difference is one gets The Rush, and the other does not.

The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after stress or a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from stress and adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players.

People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing.

So what non-PvP players are adverse to is feeling sick from adrenaline and stress.


You nailed it.
Most human beings associate that rush with anxiety and thier body gets sore and they want to puke after the crash. Even when they win it just leaves them drained.

EVE is counter intuitive,
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#60 - 2012-01-19 17:09:14 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
All this dances around the core reason, the reason why one player is willing to risk their entire wallet and loss of SP for being in a low implant clone just to get one kill, where another player is not willing to take such risk. I think the difference is one gets The Rush, and the other does not.

The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after stress or a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from stress and adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players.

People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing.

So what non-PvP players are adverse to is feeling sick from adrenaline and stress.

"Why do you not PvP more?"
"Genetics."

But yeah, I have heard about this before. Unfortunate for those who don't get it. The "Rush" is pretty great.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)