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so what happened to sentries in low sec
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Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
#1 - 2016-10-12 20:37:45 UTC
i have noticed that people dont seem to get attacked by sentries in low sec anymore when commiting piracy or agressing. what happened here?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2 - 2016-10-12 20:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Killmails on zkillboard show lots of lowsec kills for the sentry guns as usual.

If you're seeing something different it would be worth a bug report as there's been no mention of change in patch notes.

Having written that, sentry guns only attack if you commit the offence in front of them.

If you warp away and come back, they won't attack you again and/or if you commit the offence somewhere else and then follow someone in warp and attack them again on a gate/station, the guns won't engage you.

Perhaps you saw/experienced something like that?
Commander Spurty
#3 - 2016-10-13 09:47:01 UTC
The guns AI is this:
- did I spy an attack on a player who is:
-- "non negative 5"
-- "non-involved in a fight"
- if yes, shoot
- if no, carry on counting space-sheep

So to trick the guns:

- shoot target (entering into a fight with them)
-- guns will shoot you
--- warp to a perch
--- warp back down
--- you are now engaged in a fight with this target. Sentries off line.

Good sentries. Sleepy sentries.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Skarlock Tremillion
Angry Rampant Space Gerbils
#4 - 2016-10-13 12:47:02 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
The guns AI is this:
- did I spy an attack on a player who is:
-- "non negative 5"
-- "non-involved in a fight"
- if yes, shoot
- if no, carry on counting space-sheep

So to trick the guns:

- shoot target (entering into a fight with them)
-- guns will shoot you
--- warp to a perch
--- warp back down
--- you are now engaged in a fight with this target. Sentries off line.

Good sentries. Sleepy sentries.


Perhaps this should be fixed. Clearly an abuse of mechanics to offline the sentries. Simplest fix would be to tag the player the sentries started shooting with e.g. a 60 second, 2 minute or 5 minute timer. Until that times out, sentries shoot on sight.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-10-13 14:36:39 UTC
Skarlock Tremillion wrote:
Perhaps this should be fixed. Clearly an abuse of mechanics to offline the sentries. Simplest fix would be to tag the player the sentries started shooting with e.g. a 60 second, 2 minute or 5 minute timer. Until that times out, sentries shoot on sight.

If you really want to liven up the party, have the sentries shoot anyone and everyone regardless. Some disgruntled Concord employee get demoted and took out his frustrations by tweaking the sentry targeting computers. Or maybe the drifters messed with something when scanning randomly.

Here's the catch...they fire fireworks now! Yay! \o/

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Laufey Sif Tetseldottir
Blue Lagoon Appreciation Society
#6 - 2016-10-13 14:43:21 UTC
Skarlock Tremillion wrote:

Perhaps this should be fixed. Clearly an abuse of mechanics to offline the sentries. Simplest fix would be to tag the player the sentries started shooting with e.g. a 60 second, 2 minute or 5 minute timer. Until that times out, sentries shoot on sight.


Nope, the sentries in LS work as intented, this change was made by CCP on purpoise for whatever stupid reason.

Cause before the crimewatch revamp once you got flagged for illegal aggression under sentries in LS you got a 15min timer sentry aggro, that got reset each time a sentry shoot at you. You could warp out/in if the timer active sentry would aggro you again.

tl;dr it used to work as you wish but not anymore.

So good luck asking CCP for a rollback on that.
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
#7 - 2016-12-06 16:03:02 UTC
Honestly its atupid. Im seeing frigates just camp gates without dying to sentries!
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-06 16:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Codie Rin wrote:
Honestly its atupid. Im seeing frigates just camp gates without dying to sentries!

Unlikely without support, it only works shooting the same target. New target, new "crime", sentries shoot at you.

But for gate camps in frigs you bring logi to keep them alive under sentry fire, nothing special.

It's a nice very EvE-like mechanic as it separates the smart people from the rest.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#9 - 2016-12-06 16:20:32 UTC
Codie Rin wrote:
Honestly its atupid. Im seeing frigates just camp gates without dying to sentries!

Not likely. without logistics it's very difficult for frigates to camp gates, holding targets long enough to kill them without warping off.
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
#10 - 2016-12-06 17:10:58 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Honestly its atupid. Im seeing frigates just camp gates without dying to sentries!

Unlikely without support, it only works shooting the same target. New target, new "crime", sentries shoot at you.

But for gate camps in frigs you bring logi to keep them alive under sentry fire, nothing special.

It's a nice very EvE-like mechanic as it separates the smart people from the rest.


Nothing smart about logi. Its ridiculous. There is no point in having sentries when they can be by passed so easily. And yea its possible i was chased.off the gate by frigs on a gate and none died to sentries
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-12-06 17:26:44 UTC
Codie Rin wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Honestly its atupid. Im seeing frigates just camp gates without dying to sentries!

Unlikely without support, it only works shooting the same target. New target, new "crime", sentries shoot at you.

But for gate camps in frigs you bring logi to keep them alive under sentry fire, nothing special.

It's a nice very EvE-like mechanic as it separates the smart people from the rest.


Nothing smart about logi. Its ridiculous. There is no point in having sentries when they can be by passed so easily. And yea its possible i was chased.off the gate by frigs on a gate and none died to sentries


Enemy used teamwork. IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!
Mister Burns
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-12-06 18:43:21 UTC
Laufey Sif Tetseldottir wrote:
Skarlock Tremillion wrote:

Perhaps this should be fixed. Clearly an abuse of mechanics to offline the sentries. Simplest fix would be to tag the player the sentries started shooting with e.g. a 60 second, 2 minute or 5 minute timer. Until that times out, sentries shoot on sight.


Nope, the sentries in LS work as intented, this change was made by CCP on purpoise for whatever stupid reason.

Cause before the crimewatch revamp once you got flagged for illegal aggression under sentries in LS you got a 15min timer sentry aggro, that got reset each time a sentry shoot at you. You could warp out/in if the timer active sentry would aggro you again.

tl;dr it used to work as you wish but not anymore.

So good luck asking CCP for a rollback on that.


Anyone know why CCP made this change? I recently resubbed and I had no idea they changed this Shocked
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-12-06 19:14:56 UTC
Mister Burns wrote:

Anyone know why CCP made this change? I recently resubbed and I had no idea they changed this Shocked

To foster (solo) PvP?

I don't remember the time, this change was made, must be before 2013 ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-12-06 19:38:38 UTC
The most PvP in lowsec outside of FW takes part on gates. And with how things used to be, frigates and destroyers could not take part in that, because they would have to steer clear off gates for 15 minutes after agressing. Now, the meta got much smaller - way back we had nano battleships, then nano canes, then cynabals, then T1 cruisers and now it's all frigates and T3 destroyers, and apparently CCP is all for it.

So, that's probably why they implemented the change.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2016-12-06 19:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Tipa Riot wrote:
Mister Burns wrote:

Anyone know why CCP made this change? I recently resubbed and I had no idea they changed this Shocked

To foster (solo) PvP?

I don't remember the time, this change was made, must be before 2013 ...

It was to "get people out into space" and encourage more fights without completely removing some consequences (see: the DEVs did not want to see random, fleeting gatecamps like in Null-sec, so keeping the sentries there forces players to commit to their tactic in some fashion).

Before the current sentry mechanics, Standard Operating Procedure for a lot of low-sec dwellers without Logistics support was to literally dock up or sit in a safe spot until their timers ran out (which was about 15 minutes).

This was because the timers would keep getting reset each time the sentries shot at you, making travel for smaller ships and even cruisers quite difficult or even lethal for non-Logi supported gangs.

The current mechanics have been a boon for combat and allowed for fights that normally would have resulted in two groups of players just eyeballing each other on a Stargate.

How did you Veterans start?