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Porpoise 2

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Bonhom
Doomheim
#21 - 2016-12-01 18:46:25 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bonhom wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Bonhom wrote:


**Create 4 new defensive command burst charges.
1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to
2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.
3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time
4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

So you can choose to be super defensive and improve survivability or be more productive with the existing command burst charges.




Forget the gas part... the stuff I'm quoting would be abused badly by any savvy pilot.

On the other hand... I wouldn't mind seeing rigs and command burst ammo to help in actual gas mining, that way you could just use the Porpoise for its purpose -- miner enhancement (regardless of mining type). Changing the ship itself isn't necessary.
Add in Huffing Drones if you like, but good gas sites need decent protection. You're not sig-tanking in a Porpoise, so the ship's drone abilities aren't going to waste.

--Gadget



How could someone abuse that?? Most pilots will use the already existing command burst charges, combined with one of the four new defensive command burst charges.


Because all of the bonuses listed there are ridiculously powerful even compared to existing Command Bursts, which are pretty damned strong.

Also several of these would stack with existing Bursts, as well as other modules, creating a strong possibility of a really really broken end effect.

> 1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to

This is just stupidly strong and OP. No one would ever run without this, ever. It basically makes you immune to small ship tackle in most sane configurations.

> 2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.

Again, stupidly OP, makes HICs and DICs basically worthless as tackle in any fleet fight, which would allow a substantial portion of any fleet to escape a bad engagement making them almost impossible to tie down.

> 3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time

There's already an agility buff under Skirmish links. If you stacked this with that you would make a stupid number of ships capable of insta-warping.

> 4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

And this one stacks with the sensor strength bonus from Info War. Again, making it much easier to make a ship effectively impossible to scan.

All of those bonuses are stupidly over-powered. I get why you might want them in a mining fleet, but just no. As soon as you take them out into the real game they will get abused hilariously, and even just in the context of mining ships those bonuses are pretty OP and ridiculous.



Ya, after consideration, they are op. But I'm a miner/trader/hauler, I'm not a skirmisher, don't think I ever killed a player in all my Eve experience. They are op, but it also depends from which standpoint your are looking at them from. From a miner's perspective, having a lone player come up, throw a bubble and kill all 3 of my ships because I can't warp away, that's pretty OP. This game makes it so easy to kill miners its sometimes frustrating. So easy that it has become an activity in Eve, there are corporations that aim at just doing that; killing miners.

I was aiming at making it somewhat harder for a player to kill a miner. Forcing those players to work as a team to be able to kill miners. Not just come in with one ship and destroy a whole fleet of miners with a few clicks. I most likely aimed too high, guess my miner's paranoia got to me, hehe.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your comments.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2016-12-01 23:54:26 UTC
Bonhom wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bonhom wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Bonhom wrote:


**Create 4 new defensive command burst charges.
1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to
2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.
3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time
4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

So you can choose to be super defensive and improve survivability or be more productive with the existing command burst charges.




Forget the gas part... the stuff I'm quoting would be abused badly by any savvy pilot.

On the other hand... I wouldn't mind seeing rigs and command burst ammo to help in actual gas mining, that way you could just use the Porpoise for its purpose -- miner enhancement (regardless of mining type). Changing the ship itself isn't necessary.
Add in Huffing Drones if you like, but good gas sites need decent protection. You're not sig-tanking in a Porpoise, so the ship's drone abilities aren't going to waste.

--Gadget



How could someone abuse that?? Most pilots will use the already existing command burst charges, combined with one of the four new defensive command burst charges.


Because all of the bonuses listed there are ridiculously powerful even compared to existing Command Bursts, which are pretty damned strong.

Also several of these would stack with existing Bursts, as well as other modules, creating a strong possibility of a really really broken end effect.

> 1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to

This is just stupidly strong and OP. No one would ever run without this, ever. It basically makes you immune to small ship tackle in most sane configurations.

> 2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.

Again, stupidly OP, makes HICs and DICs basically worthless as tackle in any fleet fight, which would allow a substantial portion of any fleet to escape a bad engagement making them almost impossible to tie down.

> 3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time

There's already an agility buff under Skirmish links. If you stacked this with that you would make a stupid number of ships capable of insta-warping.

> 4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

And this one stacks with the sensor strength bonus from Info War. Again, making it much easier to make a ship effectively impossible to scan.

All of those bonuses are stupidly over-powered. I get why you might want them in a mining fleet, but just no. As soon as you take them out into the real game they will get abused hilariously, and even just in the context of mining ships those bonuses are pretty OP and ridiculous.



Ya, after consideration, they are op. But I'm a miner/trader/hauler, I'm not a skirmisher, don't think I ever killed a player in all my Eve experience. They are op, but it also depends from which standpoint your are looking at them from. From a miner's perspective, having a lone player come up, throw a bubble and kill all 3 of my ships because I can't warp away, that's pretty OP. This game makes it so easy to kill miners its sometimes frustrating. So easy that it has become an activity in Eve, there are corporations that aim at just doing that; killing miners.

I was aiming at making it somewhat harder for a player to kill a miner. Forcing those players to work as a team to be able to kill miners. Not just come in with one ship and destroy a whole fleet of miners with a few clicks. I most likely aimed too high, guess my miner's paranoia got to me, hehe.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your comments.

In other words, buff my playstyle at the expense of everyone else! One sabre will probably be eaten alive by three procurers or skiffs, plus any standing fleet support. Besides, if you watched dscan/local/mined aligned, you'll be able to warp out before the interdictor lands. The fact that you were tackled is your fault, not CCP's.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Cade Windstalker
#23 - 2016-12-03 02:36:24 UTC
Bonhom wrote:
Ya, after consideration, they are op. But I'm a miner/trader/hauler, I'm not a skirmisher, don't think I ever killed a player in all my Eve experience. They are op, but it also depends from which standpoint your are looking at them from. From a miner's perspective, having a lone player come up, throw a bubble and kill all 3 of my ships because I can't warp away, that's pretty OP. This game makes it so easy to kill miners its sometimes frustrating. So easy that it has become an activity in Eve, there are corporations that aim at just doing that; killing miners.

I was aiming at making it somewhat harder for a player to kill a miner. Forcing those players to work as a team to be able to kill miners. Not just come in with one ship and destroy a whole fleet of miners with a few clicks. I most likely aimed too high, guess my miner's paranoia got to me, hehe.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your comments.


From the perspective of all those PvP pilots it's pretty OP that miners can just sit in a belt, barely touching the controls, and make a constant stream of ISK for almost no risk.

Yeah, the actual mechanics are a bit more complicated than that but so are the mechanics behind that one guy throwing up a bubble and kicking your teeth in. For example if you were in three tank-fit Skiffs with combat drones he probably coulldn't do that, at least not solo, and if you were combat-miners he'd probably lose his ship trying it.

The actual sentiments some people have towards miners are more complicated than that too, but that's a decent boiled down case for you to consider.

I'd also point out that with these changes a Rorqual will not only kick the crap out of any solo ships coming to prey on you, but all three mining support ships now pack enough RR that you can pretty much just sit and tank any single ship that can reasonably catch a mining ship.

Beyond that there are tons of other things miners can do to not be just skeet targets, including partnering with combat pilots who are more than willing to use them as bait for fights. That doesn't even get into things like mining aligned, watching D-scan, and all sorts of other tools that generally only combat pilots and the excessively paranoid pay attention to.

Anyways, cheers, and thanks for the positive response to constructive criticism. Big smile
radkid10
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-12-03 10:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: radkid10
sorry man this is a bunch of stupid ideas the ship is okay but even then it's still kind of unbalanced
Deckel
Island Paradise
#25 - 2016-12-06 03:16:32 UTC
I don't think the role of Porpoise being a smaller cheaper Orca really works in most cases. Sure it is still beneficial over not having anything, but all of the bonuses that it provides are already provided by the Orca, and most of them are not as powerful.

-1% less bonus to Mining Foreman Burst effect strength and duration (per skill level)
-no Shield Command Burst bonus
-50% less Role bonus to Drone Mining Yield
-No 25% Role Bonus to Ice harvesting Drones cycle time
-No 100% Role bonus to Drone Damage
-1 less Command burst module.
-No 50% bonus to Command and Mining Foreman Burst area of effect range
-150% less bonus to tractor beam range
-50% less bonus to tractor beam velocity
-200% less bonus to Survey Scanner range

There is not one specialized bonus that makes the Porpoise better than the Orca. The only thing that gives it any role at all is it's innate smaller size, speed and cost. which gives it some use in small gang operations in WH or dangerous space.

The fact that they also both require the exact same skills means that, in most cases, investing in a Porpoise means you are just too poor to make a proper investment towards an Orca, or are in too weak a position to protect it.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#26 - 2016-12-06 13:09:05 UTC
Deckel wrote:


There is not one specialized bonus that makes the Porpoise better than the Orca. The only thing that gives it any role at all is it's innate smaller size, speed and cost. which gives it some use in small gang operations in WH or dangerous space.

The fact that they also both require the exact same skills means that, in most cases, investing in a Porpoise means you are just too poor to make a proper investment towards an Orca, or are in too weak a position to protect it.


Porpoises can much more easily go into wormholes without collapsing them, and are hella cheaper, and therefore expendable.

Everything else is just cake.

Eat it or have it... pick one.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-12-06 15:36:01 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Speedprotes accompanied by a cloaky command ship that gives them bubble immunity, +2 warp strength and +50% agility? Good luck beating that with anything. Shocked


I know I know!!!

Bring...

More of those.

Big smileBig smile
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#28 - 2016-12-06 15:39:33 UTC
Bonhom wrote:


**Create 4 new defensive command burst charges.
1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to
2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.
3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time
4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.




It might be fundamentally impossible to laugh at this as much as it deserves.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-12-06 15:45:28 UTC
Bonhom wrote:
I love the porpoise; brings good boost, reasonable cargo, and reasonable cost which makes the loss of the ship a less dramatic experience. It is relatively quick, I usually have time to go and empty the ore cargo hold before the boosts on my 2 miners run out.

Another thing I love doing is ninja gas mining, love that feeling of risk, and reward is pretty good especially when you hit those C540 and C320 gas clouds.

So I was thinking that CCP should have another Porpoise type ship for gas mining. The whole idea of this ship revolves around ninja gas mining, so stealth and agility are essential and of course a good ore hold.

Tortoise, Gas Mining Specialization ship.

High Slots: 6
Medium Slots: 3
Low Slots: 3
Rigs: 3 medium slots, 400 calibration points

Cargo Hold: 500m3
Fleet hangar: 5000m3
Gas hold: 75,000m3 (specialized cargo hold)

Ability to fit 2 gas extracting moduls
Ability to fit 2 command burst moduls**
Ability to fit covert ops cloaking modul
Improved EHP
Add +2 strength to ship's warp strength
+25% bonus to scanning/combat probe strength

No drone capability
No tractor beam bonuses
No survey scanner bonuses
No remote shield booster capability


**Create 4 new defensive command burst charges.
1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to
2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.
3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time
4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

So you can choose to be super defensive and improve survivability or be more productive with the existing command burst charges.

In the high slots, we could fit 2 gas extractors, 2 command burst moduls, 1 cover ops cloak, 1 scanning prob launcher.

Didn't look into the details like powergrid, cpu, shield capacity, etc. But overall, what do you guys think of this design??



I think you forgot the reducement of the shield reg time of 99,0% and the increase of shield resistance of 999%.

Short say the design is ****.

Gas extraction is okay.
Burst modules also.
Covert ops Module no or the price must be on a Rorqual level.
Why warp core strengh if you have Covert Ops cloak no ship has such a thing (for reasons !)
What does improved EHP means ? like 50k / 100k / 10 mio please define it better.
+25% scanning strenght would be okay.

+2 warpcore script/ immune to warp disruptor bubbles/ 50% align time/ + ECCM --> I mean really do you have spend even one sec considering what will happen if such things will be introduces into eve. Everybody will use this ship for fighting, it will be a must have.

Bad design next time think longer than 2 seconds and think about the impact on the rest of eve.

-1
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2016-12-06 15:50:26 UTC
Bonhom wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bonhom wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Bonhom wrote:


**Create 4 new defensive command burst charges.
1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to
2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.
3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time
4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

So you can choose to be super defensive and improve survivability or be more productive with the existing command burst charges.




Forget the gas part... the stuff I'm quoting would be abused badly by any savvy pilot.

On the other hand... I wouldn't mind seeing rigs and command burst ammo to help in actual gas mining, that way you could just use the Porpoise for its purpose -- miner enhancement (regardless of mining type). Changing the ship itself isn't necessary.
Add in Huffing Drones if you like, but good gas sites need decent protection. You're not sig-tanking in a Porpoise, so the ship's drone abilities aren't going to waste.

--Gadget



How could someone abuse that?? Most pilots will use the already existing command burst charges, combined with one of the four new defensive command burst charges.


Because all of the bonuses listed there are ridiculously powerful even compared to existing Command Bursts, which are pretty damned strong.

Also several of these would stack with existing Bursts, as well as other modules, creating a strong possibility of a really really broken end effect.

> 1) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet have a +2 boost the their warp strength (this bonus is added to

This is just stupidly strong and OP. No one would ever run without this, ever. It basically makes you immune to small ship tackle in most sane configurations.

> 2) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are immune to warp disrupting bubbles.

Again, stupidly OP, makes HICs and DICs basically worthless as tackle in any fleet fight, which would allow a substantial portion of any fleet to escape a bad engagement making them almost impossible to tie down.

> 3) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet get a 50% to their align time

There's already an agility buff under Skirmish links. If you stacked this with that you would make a stupid number of ships capable of insta-warping.

> 4) In the zone covered, all ships in fleet are much harder to be scanned down.

And this one stacks with the sensor strength bonus from Info War. Again, making it much easier to make a ship effectively impossible to scan.

All of those bonuses are stupidly over-powered. I get why you might want them in a mining fleet, but just no. As soon as you take them out into the real game they will get abused hilariously, and even just in the context of mining ships those bonuses are pretty OP and ridiculous.



Ya, after consideration, they are op. But I'm a miner/trader/hauler, I'm not a skirmisher, don't think I ever killed a player in all my Eve experience. They are op, but it also depends from which standpoint your are looking at them from. From a miner's perspective, having a lone player come up, throw a bubble and kill all 3 of my ships because I can't warp away, that's pretty OP. This game makes it so easy to kill miners its sometimes frustrating. So easy that it has become an activity in Eve, there are corporations that aim at just doing that; killing miners.

I was aiming at making it somewhat harder for a player to kill a miner. Forcing those players to work as a team to be able to kill miners. Not just come in with one ship and destroy a whole fleet of miners with a few clicks. I most likely aimed too high, guess my miner's paranoia got to me, hehe.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your comments.


Have you considered warping into the safet tower then hostiles entering the system, you can say many things but not that the you have no chance to get out of a belt. Mine active and move you ship´s as soon as a hostile (everything which is not blue) out of the belt. And you will never loose any ship. Staying in the belt makes you risk your ship.

-1
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-12-06 15:56:00 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Bonhom wrote:


Ya, after consideration, they are op. But I'm a miner/trader/hauler, I'm not a skirmisher, don't think I ever killed a player in all my Eve experience. They are op, but it also depends from which standpoint your are looking at them from. From a miner's perspective, having a lone player come up, throw a bubble and kill all 3 of my ships because I can't warp away, that's pretty OP. This game makes it so easy to kill miners its sometimes frustrating. So easy that it has become an activity in Eve, there are corporations that aim at just doing that; killing miners.



The game really doesn't make it "so easy" to kill miners.

Miners - bad ones, anyway - make it so easy to kill miners by adamantly refusing to make even the vaguest effort to defend themselves.

Pay attention to local, pay attention to intel channels. If you're in high sec, move to a low traffic area. Fly a proc or skiff. Slap a higgs rig on and mine aligned. You have options.

Untanked AFK barges are easy to, kill, yes - not because the game makes it easy, but because they're untanked and AFK. Roll

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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