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Is the best race for Alpha the Gallente?
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Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1 - 2016-11-30 14:06:47 UTC
I have been thinking about this for a while and in my opinion because of the racial lock the best race for doing the Alpha is the Gallente for few reasons:

(1) Five specialized industrial ships as opposed to substantially lower number for other races.
(2) The current gold standard of PvE - the Vextor Navy Issue (although unfortunately for Alphas without heavy drones).
(3) Decent pvp lineup for at least fleet level (dont do solo so cant comment that): The tackle is pretty much the same like everyone else, decent ewar frigate in the form of maulus and can fill also the ewar role in the cruiser class in fleets. Exploration frigate is pretty much in the middle of the pack so not gimped too bad in this regard (like the amarr is).

Amarr is crippled a bit more by the rather tight cap on the fitting skills, in particular the cap recharge and the lack of access to T2 guns. Without T2 guns and access to sorch amarr is a bit meh. Caldari and Minmatar both have their stars, Caldari has the best T1 exploration frigate because of extra slot and minmatar get access to pretty decent options for fleet support although some options struggle a bit because of gimped fitting skills, in particular scythe. At the pvp fleet support level the Amarr seems to be the worst and then there is a tight pack neck to neck of other three races.

Considering all that the Gallente seems to be the most likely to be able to be somewhat self sufficient without hand-holding in a null sec alliance even if he decides to not sub or decides to drop out of sub for a while at some later date. Access to all the industrials gives him reasonable capability of dragging his own crap around no matter what it is, reasonable PvE boat gives him ability to kill some red crosses (not well but at least he should be able regardless of the region he is living in in spite of rather gimped fitting skills) top that with decent enough pvp lineup and ... yeah.

So would I be wrong to suggest a fresh Alpha to re-roll as Gallente upon recruiting him? If you think it would be wrong so then why?

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-11-30 16:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Ive never played amarr before but i can confirm it feels like crap. Idk if it will change with another level of controlled bursts but thats all i got for cap. My battery goes out in 1:12 from weapons and a repairer. But needing a repairer is sporadic and not often with good armor resists.
Thats using radio ammo tho.
If i use multi or infrared or something my cap drops off to nothing. Im constantly hitting 0 before i even realize ive gone past 30%ish and the damage is super weak.
I did more damage with small railguns firing thorium on a catalyst on my other guy than i do with medium beam lasers on a maller. So i switched them out to heavy pulse lasers and now im still having absurd cap drainage. I thought pulses were the low cap option. Maybe medium pulses.
Also you get murdered in fitting. My pulse lasers are 180 something a piece. you can only take off 4pg from them with advanced weapon upgrades. Maybe the smaller pukse lasers woukdnt be so bad but the damage and range are **** and the beam lasers are even worse for eh range thats inferior to a railguns.

But i made this guy for amarr fw and bleeding gold for the crusade is what its all about.
Would not reccomend amarr tho, im not enjoying lasers so far. Im gonna remake my gal guy and stick to railguns for pve. Those are still my favorite weapons in the game and this guy will just be small scale fw stuff.

Not sure why amarr have so many drone skills, theres only like one drone ship.
They need to rip out all the drone skills from amarr and put it into engineering and armor imo. Still have 2 levels of amarr cruiser to go tho. But an extra 10% isnt gonna make a difference on like 80dps with heavy pulse lasers lmao. Goes up to maybe 170-180 when i drop the radio for multi but for 7k optimal range and a cap thst drains in under a miniute with my cap skills maxed for an alpha.

I feel sorry for anyone who trys to fly an alpha omen. That thing only has like 900pg, and a full set of lasers will use that up. im out of room on my maller just about and thats 1300-1400
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2016-12-01 09:31:26 UTC
CCP have said they intend to do a balance pass on the T1 hulls to level the playing field. Minmatar have the advantage that none of their weapon systems need capacitor which means fewer slots wasted on cap management mods/rigs.

I think the specialized industrials should all be moved to Ore - give Alphas access to Ore Industrial Level 1 and any balance issues created by these ships goes away.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2016-12-01 10:34:25 UTC
I prefer to play the game and have fun, rather than min-max everything.

I have a Caldari Alpha, because I chose the name first, and it made more sense with Caldari than the other races.
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#5 - 2016-12-01 14:52:44 UTC
The nerf bat giveth and the nerf bat taketh away.

What is flavour of the month may not be flavour of the month next week or next month or next year.

It doesn't make sense to re-roll IMO. Fly what you find fun. Every race and every ship has its niche.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#6 - 2016-12-02 09:32:01 UTC
So basically the counter argument is that one should focus on fun.

Well - I can fully agree to that. However - I do not see how is this connected to the race of the starting character and to the fact that the Gallente has the best set of tools, apparently, to have fun where ever they choose in the new Eden. The new player has invested at most few weeks into his/her character so it makes sense, in my opinion, to let him/her re-roll early instead of figuring out couple months later that, for example, Amarr is practically unusable in north null sec.

The starting race used to not be important as people could crosstrain but now in Alpha state this is the most important thing about ones starting character as this determines the ships one can fly. The ships of the empires are quite different and fit better into different regions in space because of the differences in the NPC factions. However, EVE is a social game and if your frinds play, for example in North three to five years down the road it sucks to be Amarr.

The drones, as it stands is one of the weapon types which can switch damage type without significant penalties. It is not possible to predict what kind of nerfs or buffs we'll face in the future. Combine that with the best set of industrials, reasonable fleet pvp lineup for roles suitable for low skill alphas and we'll have a winner as it stands currently.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2016-12-02 13:47:06 UTC
The starting race is not a big indicator of performance, even in Alpha.

My main thing I would recommend is fly something that you like to look at, and like the ships you have access to. Also, to a lesser extent (if this is your thing), be a race where you like the lore and backstory of.

All alphas are fantastic. I get the cap might be an issue as explained above, but you can do a couple of things about that:
- Capacitor running out in 1min 50sec is standard really. You dont need to be cap-stable for anything. Just dont keep your repper running all the time. Pulse it.
- Use capacitor recharge mods, or capacitor capacity mods.
- Train up relevant skills.

As mentioned above, the Alpha state might be live, but it is also seeing its first month of action. CCP will roll our balances when it notices something amiss.

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Tawin Raytl
Gallivanting About
#8 - 2016-12-03 15:29:41 UTC
I remember a month or two back looking at the type of ships an Amarr alpha clone could fly, and I think you can get some very decent cap-stable ships. Capacitor is an issue, but capacitor is always on issue on Amarr ships, Alpha clone or not.

This is more or less a copy/paste of the post I made back then on the E-Uni forums. I only considered PvE, I have no clue about PvP.


At around 35 million ISK, the Maller is the cheap option. I fitted it with beam lasers, and it does 325 DPS with multifrequency crystals at 17 km, or 216 DPS with standard crystals at 39 km. The three Hobgoblins add another 37 DPS. It is cap stable with multifrequency crystals and no afterburner or with standard crystals and afterburner. Against a 50/50 mix of EM and thermal damage it can repair 70 EHPS.

[Maller - Alpha Clone - High-sec PvE]

Small Armor Repairer II
Corpum C-Type Energized EM Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
Power Diagnostic System II
2 x Heat Sink II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Tracking Computer II
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

5 x Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II

3 x Hobgoblin I


The Navy Augoror costs about 110 million ISK and is essential an upgraded version of the Maller. I fitted it with beam lasers, and it does 325 DPS with multifrequency crystals at 20 km, or 216 DPS with standard crystals at 44 km. The three Hobgoblins add another 37 DPS. It is cap stable with multifrequency crystals and no afterburner or with standard crystals and afterburner. Against a 50/50 mix of EM and thermal damage it can repair 190 EHPS.

[Navy Augoror - Alpha Clone - High-sec PvE]

Medium Armor Repairer II
2 x Corpum C-Type Energized EM Membrane
2 x Corpum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
2 x Heat Sink II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Tracking Computer II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery

3 x Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
2 x Free high-power slots

2 x Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

3 x Hobgoblin I


The Navy Omen costs about 90 million ISK and is a long-range speed tank. I fitted it with beam lasers and it does 303 DPS with multifrequency crystals at 28 km, or 202 DPS with standard crystals at 62 km. Five Hobgoblins or Hammerheads will add another 62 or 96 DPS, respectively. It is cap stable with multifrequency crystals and the afterburner active. Against a 50/50 mix of EM and thermal damage it can repair 59 EHPS, significantly less than the Maller and the Navy Augoror, but the combination of range and speed means the Navy Omen will take a lot less damage than the other two.

[Navy Omen - Alpha Clone - High-sec PvE]

Small Armor Repairer II
Corpum C-Type Energized EM Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
2 x Capacitor Power Relay II
2 x Heat Sink II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Tracking Computer II
Medium Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

4 x Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Drone Link Augmentor I

2 x Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

5 x Hobgoblin/Hammerhead I

I have used a Navy Omen for all the level 4 missions I have done, probably around 100 missions. I ran my first level 4 mission after playing for about a month, with a fit far worse than the one above, so I don’t see why a fully-trained alpha clone should not be able to run level 4 missions with the fit above. It might not be the fastest or safest way of running level 4 missions, but it will get the job done, and I think it would be perfect if you are running missions with a friend. Both the Navy Omen and the Navy Augoror should be fine for level 3 missions. They are probably also fine for low-sec combat sites and clone-soldier ratting.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#9 - 2016-12-04 13:53:07 UTC
Thanx for the Amarr setups. It's been quite a while since I have flown an amarr ship to which Alphas have access without T2 pulses. Although ofc the core problem with Amarr is being in essence locked into doing EM/thermal damage type. Particularly bad ofc in Angel space but Guristas are not much better in this regard.

About 200 - 300 dps seem to be a ballpark range into which Alphas can be reliably dragged. Going short range weapons gank setup they can reach up to 500 ish (gallente, navy cruiser with blasters).

However, EVE is a long term game so it is still paramount in my opinion to be able to operate in any corner of EVE without major frustrations on top of already limited options because of Alpha state, meaning being basically hard locked into two damage types for which practically half of EVE is very unsuitable is a reason enough to suggest a fresh player to roll something else than Amarr.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Tawin Raytl
Gallivanting About
#10 - 2016-12-05 18:51:43 UTC
I completely agree that flying Amarr ships with lasers against Angels is almost pointless, been there done that. But you can easily have multiple alpha clones, and there are other regions of space where Amarr is probably the best choice. It's only as an Omega you are locked to one main character (the one you are training). There is no reason for an alpha player not to have multiple alpha clones, either in different regions of space or as haulers and traders.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2016-12-05 22:38:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Can Gallente Alphas actually use Industrials?

When I recently looked at the Ship Tree, only Caldari didn't have the Industrials path blocked-off by Omega status.

The info for the other races of Industrials also shows the Omega requirement, unlike the Badger and Tayra info.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#12 - 2016-12-06 05:33:21 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Can Gallente Alphas actually use Industrials?

When I recently looked at the Ship Tree, only Caldari didn't have the Industrials path blocked-off by Omega status.

The info for the other races of Industrials also shows the Omega requirement, unlike the Badger and Tayra info.


That is a good question. I'm sure I do have a gallente Alpha somewhere in my accounts that have fallen into alpha state so I will need to go and check this out a bit later.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#13 - 2016-12-06 10:12:44 UTC
I have an Alpha of each race and I like my Minmatar pilot by far the most. For me Trasher-Gangs are the best thing in EVE so far.
Hei Presto
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-12-06 20:39:16 UTC
Francis Raven wrote:
The starting race is not a big indicator of performance, even in Alpha.

My main thing I would recommend is fly something that you like to look at, and like the ships you have access to. Also, to a lesser extent (if this is your thing), be a race where you like the lore and backstory of.

All alphas are fantastic. I get the cap might be an issue as explained above, but you can do a couple of things about that:
- Capacitor running out in 1min 50sec is standard really. You dont need to be cap-stable for anything. Just dont keep your repper running all the time. Pulse it.
- Use capacitor recharge mods, or capacitor capacity mods.
- Train up relevant skills.

As mentioned above, the Alpha state might be live, but it is also seeing its first month of action. CCP will roll our balances when it notices something amiss.


Why fly what looks pretty when everything is zoomed out anyway :)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2016-12-07 07:35:41 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
So basically the counter argument is that one should focus on fun.

Well - I can fully agree to that. However - I do not see how is this connected to the race of the starting character and to the fact that the Gallente has the best set of tools, apparently, to have fun where ever they choose in the new Eden. The new player has invested at most few weeks into his/her character so it makes sense, in my opinion, to let him/her re-roll early instead of figuring out couple months later that, for example, Amarr is practically unusable in north null sec.

The starting race used to not be important as people could crosstrain but now in Alpha state this is the most important thing about ones starting character as this determines the ships one can fly. The ships of the empires are quite different and fit better into different regions in space because of the differences in the NPC factions. However, EVE is a social game and if your frinds play, for example in North three to five years down the road it sucks to be Amarr.

The drones, as it stands is one of the weapon types which can switch damage type without significant penalties. It is not possible to predict what kind of nerfs or buffs we'll face in the future. Combine that with the best set of industrials, reasonable fleet pvp lineup for roles suitable for low skill alphas and we'll have a winner as it stands currently.

Umm ... you could just start 4 Alpha characters.

It costs the same.
Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#16 - 2016-12-09 14:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Kildare
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Can Gallente Alphas actually use Industrials?

When I recently looked at the Ship Tree, only Caldari didn't have the Industrials path blocked-off by Omega status.

The info for the other races of Industrials also shows the Omega requirement, unlike the Badger and Tayra info.


Best way to tell if things need omega or alpha without actually having to log in an alpha to check... is to look in your ship hangar and item hangar. Modules and ships that need omega are surrounded by a golden border.

Next best way is ship tree, which you've already tried. As a Gallente omega, when I look in my ship trees, the Caldari t1 industrials have a gold border (because were I to let my sub lapse/not plex, I wouldn't be able to use them due to not being Caldari by birth), but the Gallente t1 industrials have no golden border for me. All 5 of them are borderless = for Gallente alphas, they're allowed.

The reason only your Badger/Tayra showed as not needing omega is that you are Caldari so if you lapse to alpha, you'll only be able to use the Badger/Tayra, whereas Gallente alphas can use Nereus/Miasmos/Kryos/Epithal/Iteron V.

Our ship trees are now truly personal to our race.