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Balance Trade Hub Populations/Activity

Author
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#1 - 2016-12-04 19:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Conogan Blitzkreig
Modulate hisec trade by adding a Trade Hub Buff of - 10.0% to Trade/Purchase Tax, 10.1%, 10.2% & 10.3% alternatively to Jita, Amarr, Rens and Dodixie. Alternate those 4 buffs randomly being applied to each hub depending on which ones have the least/2nd least/2nd most/most people in them at that time. That way the 3000 or so people using all these hubs at any one point in time will be evenly distributed to each of the 4 racial hubs. That way, trading will be easier/more interesting and maybe the Hauling profession will also get stimulated slightly.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2016-12-04 19:07:28 UTC
Hubs are naturally formed, not made by CCP intervention.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#3 - 2016-12-04 19:20:45 UTC
They should still try it.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2016-12-04 19:37:01 UTC
No, they shouldn't, because then the market ceases to be an in game interaction between players and becomes all about where CCP says the market is this week.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#5 - 2016-12-04 19:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Conogan Blitzkreig
Wtf makes you say that? That'll just be CCP taking note of the trend and placidly trying to encourage a more even dispersal. Don't overreact to every little thing without thinking it through first. Oh, and...

A horse just bit my ass.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-12-04 19:49:10 UTC
So then what about the other regional trade hubs? Hek? Dodixie? Boystin? And I'm sure many others I haven't thought of.

Should CCP be giving a tax reduction to those places to encourage more trade?
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#7 - 2016-12-04 19:57:34 UTC
Sure..whatever their balance dudes will figure is appropriate/productive.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2016-12-04 19:59:15 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
Sure..whatever their balance dudes will figure is appropriate/productive.


I think they're already doing just that.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#9 - 2016-12-04 21:35:52 UTC
i would really hate it if they did that ... I like living in amarr alot... I can buy everything i want without being QUITE so crazy as jita and if i need something fancy that amarr doesnt have i'll drive to jita its only 9 jumps...

Also meddling with peoples buy orders would seriously **** over the in game economy in a way you DO NOT WANT...
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#10 - 2016-12-04 21:46:35 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
They should still try it.

Why?

There doesn't appear to be any problem that needs fixing.
Julanna Egnald
Del's Industrial Strip Mining
#11 - 2016-12-04 21:52:59 UTC
Didn't CCP initially have Yulai as the 1 major trade hub of the game, but players decided to make their own for convenience? If so, then why would you, in a game designed around player-created content, want to herd players like cattle to certain areas by some arbitrary tax rate?

If your goal is to evenly distribute the number of people in the system (why?), then creating a system that by its nature will herd more people into one system, thereby negating the very goal you're trying to achieve.

And how often does the buff rotate? Every day? Every week? Will people have any warning when the tax rate is going to go up/down? Will the tax on a certain order change when the system rate changes, or will it be locked into the rate it was at when the order was set?

This seems to me like a solution waiting for a problem that doesn't exist.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2016-12-04 21:57:41 UTC
Julanna Egnald wrote:
Didn't CCP initially have Yulai as the 1 major trade hub of the game, but players decided to make their own for convenience?


Sort of. Yulai used to be absolutely central on the map. CCP changed the map, and Yulai as a hub died as a result.

The new hubs grew up around high quality level 4 security mission agents. Which is funny, as agent quality doesn't exist and all agents were removed from Jita but it had enough momentum that it stuck around.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2016-12-04 22:55:01 UTC
How will trading be easier or more interesting if it just become 'go to whichever jumpclone is in the system with the best bonuses this week'? Surely that'd just be more annoying?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2016-12-05 04:18:50 UTC
the PLAYER market should not be interfered with by devs in any way.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2016-12-05 07:47:02 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
Wtf makes you say that? That'll just be CCP taking note of the trend and placidly trying to encourage a more even dispersal. Don't overreact to every little thing without thinking it through first. Oh, and...

A "more even dispersal" is garbage. I do not want to travel through dozens of systems to get my stuff bought. When I go to Jita, I want to find everything there and not spread around in 10 systems. It's already bad enough with the citadels around Jita and it costs me more and more time to get things bought, centralized and shipped, and no one compensates me for that time because I cannot automagically ask for more money at the sell points. Jita is not like those small grocery stores that you find in your street or a small town, Jita (and Amarr, Dodi, Rens) are huge hyperstores in a huge city, maybe even comparable to wholesale markets. These things do not need to and must not move around like a weekly farmers market, they need to stay centralized in one location so that people can get things they need when they need them in a reliable location.
Every idea surrounding dispersal of the big hypermarkets are absolute nonsense and everyone who talks about it has no idea on what these market hubs' functions are (looking at you, rhivet!).

Now, if you want to have more dispersed markets, export things from Jita to other popular areas. Or create a conglomerate of suppliers that produce things for you so that you can compete with Jita prices elsewhere and don't have to take Jita prices as your base price. People have been doing this for years, that's how Hek (as one of the most notable examples in recent times), Agil, Stacmon, Orvolle, Sasta, Tash-Murkon Prime came to be. However, none of these markets serve the same function that Jita and Amarr (the other 2 big hubs are negligible) serve and would never be able to serve because moving triple digit trillions around is neither feasible nor profitable.

On a sidenote: CCP is currently on to actually centralizing markets even more radically than ever before. Until now you could throw items in an NPC station or Null sec outpost on the market and leave it there for months without worrying. Now, with the introduction of ever increasing NPC taxes in NPC stations and sov null sec outposts and citadel markets requiring fuel to run, this becomes utterly unfeasible as you lose boatloads of money to taxes (so that NPC stations become unfeasible) and fuel that you can't compensate with taxes and fees. As a result, especially in sov null sec the market landscape will drastically shrink and concentrate in very few systems, far away from where people live or want to live.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#16 - 2016-12-05 08:13:33 UTC
^^ all of that!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2016-12-05 08:37:04 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
Modulate hisec trade by adding a Trade Hub Buff of - 10.0% to Trade/Purchase Tax, 10.1%, 10.2% & 10.3% alternatively to Jita, Amarr, Rens and Dodixie. Alternate those 4 buffs randomly being applied to each hub depending on which ones have the least/2nd least/2nd most/most people in them at that time. That way the 3000 or so people using all these hubs at any one point in time will be evenly distributed to each of the 4 racial hubs. That way, trading will be easier/more interesting and maybe the Hauling profession will also get stimulated slightly.


Look at my signature. You may think you can design a better market/economy but you would be totally and completely wrong in our overbearing arrogance and hubris.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2016-12-05 08:38:21 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the PLAYER market should not be interfered with by devs in any way.



This.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2016-12-05 08:39:20 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
Wtf makes you say that? That'll just be CCP taking note of the trend and placidly trying to encourage a more even dispersal. Don't overreact to every little thing without thinking it through first. Oh, and...

A "more even dispersal" is garbage. I do not want to travel through dozens of systems to get my stuff bought. When I go to Jita, I want to find everything there and not spread around in 10 systems. It's already bad enough with the citadels around Jita and it costs me more and more time to get things bought, centralized and shipped, and no one compensates me for that time because I cannot automagically ask for more money at the sell points. Jita is not like those small grocery stores that you find in your street or a small town, Jita (and Amarr, Dodi, Rens) are huge hyperstores in a huge city, maybe even comparable to wholesale markets. These things do not need to and must not move around like a weekly farmers market, they need to stay centralized in one location so that people can get things they need when they need them in a reliable location.
Every idea surrounding dispersal of the big hypermarkets are absolute nonsense and everyone who talks about it has no idea on what these market hubs' functions are (looking at you, rhivet!).

Now, if you want to have more dispersed markets, export things from Jita to other popular areas. Or create a conglomerate of suppliers that produce things for you so that you can compete with Jita prices elsewhere and don't have to take Jita prices as your base price. People have been doing this for years, that's how Hek (as one of the most notable examples in recent times), Agil, Stacmon, Orvolle, Sasta, Tash-Murkon Prime came to be. However, none of these markets serve the same function that Jita and Amarr (the other 2 big hubs are negligible) serve and would never be able to serve because moving triple digit trillions around is neither feasible nor profitable.

On a sidenote: CCP is currently on to actually centralizing markets even more radically than ever before. Until now you could throw items in an NPC station or Null sec outpost on the market and leave it there for months without worrying. Now, with the introduction of ever increasing NPC taxes in NPC stations and sov null sec outposts and citadel markets requiring fuel to run, this becomes utterly unfeasible as you lose boatloads of money to taxes (so that NPC stations become unfeasible) and fuel that you can't compensate with taxes and fees. As a result, especially in sov null sec the market landscape will drastically shrink and concentrate in very few systems, far away from where people live or want to live.


And this.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-12-06 10:12:49 UTC
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:
Modulate hisec trade by adding a Trade Hub Buff of - 10.0% to Trade/Purchase Tax, 10.1%, 10.2% & 10.3% alternatively to Jita, Amarr, Rens and Dodixie. Alternate those 4 buffs randomly being applied to each hub depending on which ones have the least/2nd least/2nd most/most people in them at that time. That way the 3000 or so people using all these hubs at any one point in time will be evenly distributed to each of the 4 racial hubs. That way, trading will be easier/more interesting and maybe the Hauling profession will also get stimulated slightly.



Why nerv it. It´s one of the working isk sinks. Yeah lets remove it.

-1
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