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Diana Kim: A Polite Request

Author
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-11-30 17:48:31 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Madam Kim, you may regard your crewmembers as expendable piecemeal to warrant them as 'collateral damage', but I implore you that you do not regard mine in such a light.

That was both disrespectful about my crew and ignorant about me.


I would remind you that those are your own words that you chose to convey about my crew. To say that it is 'both disrespectful about your crew and ignorant about you' would be the same atmosphere of words you garnered toward the men and women under my employment. Perhaps now you see why it was distasteful to me?

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#22 - 2016-11-30 18:02:50 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Madam Kim, you may regard your crewmembers as expendable piecemeal to warrant them as 'collateral damage', but I implore you that you do not regard mine in such a light.

That was both disrespectful about my crew and ignorant about me.


I would remind you that those are your own words that you chose to convey about my crew. To say that it is 'both disrespectful about your crew and ignorant about you' would be the same atmosphere of words you garnered toward the men and women under my employment. Perhaps now you see why it was distasteful to me?

And yet I didn't say a word about how you treat your crew or how I treat mine.

I said about those, whom I treat as neutrals in the warzone.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-11-30 18:05:13 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Madam Kim, you may regard your crewmembers as expendable piecemeal to warrant them as 'collateral damage', but I implore you that you do not regard mine in such a light.

That was both disrespectful about my crew and ignorant about me.


I would remind you that those are your own words that you chose to convey about my crew. To say that it is 'both disrespectful about your crew and ignorant about you' would be the same atmosphere of words you garnered toward the men and women under my employment. Perhaps now you see why it was distasteful to me?

And yet I didn't say a word about how you treat your crew or how I treat mine.

I said about those, whom I treat as neutrals in the warzone.


So you would then speak disrespectfully and ignorantly about the upstanding men and women about vessels whose captains are not here to defend themselves? In either subsequent case, the sting is still in the words, regardless of who they are geared towards.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-11-30 18:23:42 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Madam Kim, you may regard your crewmembers as expendable piecemeal to warrant them as 'collateral damage', but I implore you that you do not regard mine in such a light.

That was both disrespectful about my crew and ignorant about me.


I would remind you that those are your own words that you chose to convey about my crew. To say that it is 'both disrespectful about your crew and ignorant about you' would be the same atmosphere of words you garnered toward the men and women under my employment. Perhaps now you see why it was distasteful to me?

And yet I didn't say a word about how you treat your crew or how I treat mine.

I said about those, whom I treat as neutrals in the warzone.


So you would then speak disrespectfully and ignorantly about the upstanding men and women about vessels whose captains are not here to defend themselves? In either subsequent case, the sting is still in the words, regardless of who they are geared towards.

There is a question about who are they, and how have they managed to end under gunfire or military vessels? Maybe they aren't collateral damage, but the enemy?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-12-01 03:28:17 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

That was both disrespectful about my crew and ignorant about me.


I would remind you that those are your own words that you chose to convey about my crew. To say that it is 'both disrespectful about your crew and ignorant about you' would be the same atmosphere of words you garnered toward the men and women under my employment. Perhaps now you see why it was distasteful to me?

And yet I didn't say a word about how you treat your crew or how I treat mine.

I said about those, whom I treat as neutrals in the warzone.


So you would then speak disrespectfully and ignorantly about the upstanding men and women about vessels whose captains are not here to defend themselves? In either subsequent case, the sting is still in the words, regardless of who they are geared towards.

There is a question about who are they, and how have they managed to end under gunfire or military vessels? Maybe they aren't collateral damage, but the enemy?


Then at what point does a crew become 'collateral damage', as you say? It sounds like the criteria is shifting, and I worry it may be because you do not know who your real enemies are in your blanket generalization that anyone under a Federation banner is against you, when we have already established that is not true.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-12-01 15:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

There is a question about who are they, and how have they managed to end under gunfire or military vessels? Maybe they aren't collateral damage, but the enemy?


Then at what point does a crew become 'collateral damage', as you say? It sounds like the criteria is shifting, and I worry it may be because you do not know who your real enemies are in your blanket generalization that anyone under a Federation banner is against you, when we have already established that is not true.

At the point they don't participate in the war themselves.

So, whom they would be fighting for? For us? For the Federation? Or just pirating around? Or just got somehow under fire?

Answer yourself, who they are to us. Friends. Foes. Pirates. Or collateral damage?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-12-01 17:45:17 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

There is a question about who are they, and how have they managed to end under gunfire or military vessels? Maybe they aren't collateral damage, but the enemy?


Then at what point does a crew become 'collateral damage', as you say? It sounds like the criteria is shifting, and I worry it may be because you do not know who your real enemies are in your blanket generalization that anyone under a Federation banner is against you, when we have already established that is not true.

At the point they don't participate in the war themselves.

So, whom they would be fighting for? For us? For the Federation? Or just pirating around? Or just got somehow under fire?

Answer yourself, who they are to us. Friends. Foes. Pirates. Or collateral damage?


Madam Diana, I believe this dialogue has come time to end, as at this point I'm convinced there is no way for you to see the consequences of your words and actions. I believe both your mind and heart are filled with so much hate that it is well beyond my capability to successfully persuade you of otherwise. I would offer you encouragement to seek out the wisdom of the Idama's and Ida, though I have my doubts that you will.

To that, I offer these final words of wisdom: Violence is only necessary when you find rigidity in a lack of reason.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#28 - 2016-12-01 21:43:55 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

There is a question about who are they, and how have they managed to end under gunfire or military vessels? Maybe they aren't collateral damage, but the enemy?


Then at what point does a crew become 'collateral damage', as you say? It sounds like the criteria is shifting, and I worry it may be because you do not know who your real enemies are in your blanket generalization that anyone under a Federation banner is against you, when we have already established that is not true.

At the point they don't participate in the war themselves.

So, whom they would be fighting for? For us? For the Federation? Or just pirating around? Or just got somehow under fire?

Answer yourself, who they are to us. Friends. Foes. Pirates. Or collateral damage?


Madam Diana, I believe this dialogue has come time to end, as at this point I'm convinced there is no way for you to see the consequences of your words and actions. I believe both your mind and heart are filled with so much hate that it is well beyond my capability to successfully persuade you of otherwise. I would offer you encouragement to seek out the wisdom of the Idama's and Ida, though I have my doubts that you will.
I can't help but to point out that this outcome should have been obvious from the start...


Nomistrav wrote:
To that, I offer these final words of wisdom: Violence is only necessary when you find rigidity in a lack of reason.

Or you want something accomplished. Violence is the standard communication method of New Eden.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-12-02 20:52:10 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:

Madam Diana, I believe this dialogue has come time to end, as at this point I'm convinced there is no way for you to see the consequences of your words and actions. I believe both your mind and heart are filled with so much hate that it is well beyond my capability to successfully persuade you of otherwise. I would offer you encouragement to seek out the wisdom of the Idama's and Ida, though I have my doubts that you will.

Indeed, it's time to end this farce, that you called a dialogue.

From the start I noticed hostile notes in your question and I feel sorry for myself that I wasted my precious time on you. And even worse, I was at least even happy, thinking someone might actually want to discuss things politely. But now I see that you have finally drowned in insults, and, in my humble opinion, that was your goal from the start.

And if you would like to discuss something with somebody next time, just in case, I would recommend you to actually point out explicitly, what you were going to convince others with. And it is really helps if you actually try to persuade instead of insulting your opponents.

But anyway, let the Winds be your judges in your future trials. This one you have failed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#30 - 2016-12-02 21:09:15 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:

Madam Diana, I believe this dialogue has come time to end, as at this point I'm convinced there is no way for you to see the consequences of your words and actions. I believe both your mind and heart are filled with so much hate that it is well beyond my capability to successfully persuade you of otherwise. I would offer you encouragement to seek out the wisdom of the Idama's and Ida, though I have my doubts that you will.

Indeed, it's time to end this farce, that you called a dialogue.

From the start I noticed hostile notes in your question and I feel sorry for myself that I wasted my precious time on you. And even worse, I was at least even happy, thinking someone might actually want to discuss things politely. But now I see that you have finally drowned in insults, and, in my humble opinion, that was your goal from the start.

And if you would like to discuss something with somebody next time, just in case, I would recommend you to actually point out explicitly, what you were going to convince others with. And it is really helps if you actually try to persuade instead of insulting your opponents.

But anyway, let the Winds be your judges in your future trials. This one you have failed.

Don't feel bad, sweetie. You illicit that response from all but the most saintly of individuals. You should have seen it coming from the get-go as well...

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-12-03 08:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
The level of insanity.. just totally out of touch with reality. I never thought I'd see someone show this much patience with her, and never imagined the cognitive dissonance would be this strong. It's mind boggling. She could absolutely destroy the public reputation of just about any organization or cause she aligned with. She could make a charity that gives puppies to dying children look bad.

She's almost suspiciously lacking in introspection. It makes me wonder if she actually is some sort of Black Eagle project, as tinfoil-hat as such an accusation would be. They do have perhaps the best spy network in the cluster now that the Jove are gone (supposedly)

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-12-03 11:29:09 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
The level of insanity.. just totally out of touch with reality. I never thought I'd see someone show this much patience with her, and never imagined the cognitive dissonance would be this strong. It's mind boggling. She could absolutely destroy the public reputation of just about any organization or cause she aligned with. She could make a charity that gives puppies to dying children look bad.

She's almost suspiciously lacking in introspection. It makes me wonder if she actually is some sort of Black Eagle project, as tinfoil-hat as such an accusation would be. They do have perhaps the best spy network in the cluster now that the Jove are gone (supposedly)

Be gone, troll.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

woodrow Ormand
Ormand Security Services
#33 - 2016-12-04 07:09:08 UTC
Truly though, the violence must end. It's always an escalation. Nouvolle rouvenor leads to orbital bombardment leads to suicidal carrier crash into gallente prime leads to a long war of bloodshed and violence. Peace finally comes with the ceding of caldari prime to the federation. Many years later, when a gallente planet with a fully integrated society of both caldari and gallente citizens. Then after an extremist who could have some mental disorder, since I don't think he was in his right mind since that is nothing like how he acted previously. So in response the leader, at the time, Tibus Heth, breaks the treaty and invades the federation and places a titan over caldari prime. Then there was some resistance on the ground and hey blew up a government building and Heth felt the proper response was to nuke the planet committing genocide on half a planet of caldari and half gallente. The gallente step in and save the planet after Concord declares a state of emergency after one of their ships was fired upon by the titan above caldari prime. The result of highlander was a demilirarized caldari prime, the best option that could have been hoped for for both sides. No gallente troops on the ground and no caldari ships in space. I'm sorry for the history lesson but my point is this, there is always escalation, beginning with secret colonies and ending with the near mass extinction of all life on caldari prime. If a peace is not negotiated then what could happen next? How many thousands of people have to die before peace is achieved. The amount of fighting will change nothing except for the body count. I leave it to you, but the only option now and ten years from now is to sit down and talk, put aside your differences and make peace now before it is too late.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-12-05 00:22:01 UTC
woodrow Ormand wrote:
Truly though, the violence must end. It's always an escalation. Nouvolle rouvenor leads to orbital bombardment leads to suicidal carrier crash into gallente prime leads to a long war of bloodshed and violence.

Oh, a lot of people say that violence must end. Some gallente even acknowledge that what they did was unright, but maximum what they do is nodding heads and saying it was wrong, but they don't stop. No, no. They say it was wrong and continue doing their atrocities. You know what a police officer does to criminal if the criminal doesn't listen to them to stop doing the violent criminal act? They use violence.

The gallenteas are the space criminals. And we are the space police.

woodrow Ormand wrote:

Peace finally comes with the ceding of caldari prime to the federation.

Caldari Prime was never ceded to Federation. It was left inside Federation borders after peace treaty of YC35, and since then several generations of diplomats tried to negotiate its return back to Caldari State. None of them succeded... well, because diplomacy with gallenteans is a task that is failed the moment it begins.

woodrow Ormand wrote:
Many years later, when a gallente planet with a fully integrated society of both caldari and gallente citizens. Then after an extremist who could have some mental disorder, since I don't think he was in his right mind since that is nothing like how he acted previously.

That 'extremist' was the Admiral of Federation Navy of Gallente Federation.
I could suggest to extend the term of extremist to the whole Federation Navy, considering what they are doing in Black Rise.

woodrow Ormand wrote:
So in response the leader, at the time, Tibus Heth, breaks the treaty and invades the federation and places a titan over caldari prime.

The treaty was already broken by this extremist's attack.

woodrow Ormand wrote:

Then there was some resistance on the ground and hey blew up a government building and Heth felt the proper response was to nuke the planet committing genocide on half a planet of caldari and half gallente.The gallente step in and save the planet after Concord declares a state of emergency after one of their ships was fired upon by the titan above caldari prime.

Bullshit.
It wasn't a 'resistance', it was straightforward invasion, though executed under secrecy. Gallenteans sent a lot of mercenaries to fight on behalf of FDU to occupy Caldari Prime. And it was known as 'Operation Highlander'.

The genocide was planned by Gallentean commanders, since after the invasion began, the titan has moved down to low orbit - a perfect place from where it could fall on the surface. Then gallente space horde jumped in and forced the ship to fall down, committing probably one of the greatest atrocities of modern time. The scar on Kaalakiota mountains will be remainder for this gallentean atrocity for millions of years.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-12-05 00:34:42 UTC
woodrow Ormand wrote:
The result of highlander was a demilirarized caldari prime, the best option that could have been hoped for for both sides. No gallente troops on the ground and no caldari ships in space.

The result of the operation was millions dead and almost half of the planet occupied. Gladly, most of gallentean armada was destroyed, I myself was there and helped to bring them down. Unfortunately, the demilitarization of the planet is a disgraceful treaty, as it allows the occupants to stay legally. The fall of Shiigeru and the preceding gallente ground invasion on Caldari Prime in violation of peace treaty signed 10 June YC110 will always remain in Caldari hearts as a vivid example of gallentean treachery and atrocity.

woodrow Ormand wrote:
I'm sorry for the history lesson but my point is this, there is always escalation, beginning with secret colonies and ending with the near mass extinction of all life on caldari prime.

Luckily, we, Caldari, have stopped Gallente from causing mass extinction of all life on Caldari Prime. We have to thank Adm. Yanala, who shut down the subsystems on the Leviathan (by violating the order and taking her own life for this in honorable and traditional Caldari way, as was provided by Tibus Heth) and didn't let gallente plans on destroying all life on Caldari Prime to come into motion. But the damage still was colossal. And it is gallente to blame for this.

woodrow Ormand wrote:
If a peace is not negotiated then what could happen next? How many thousands of people have to die before peace is achieved. The amount of fighting will change nothing except for the body count. I leave it to you, but the only option now and ten years from now is to sit down and talk, put aside your differences and make peace now before it is too late.

The peace can be negotiated, like it was negotiated by Tibus Heth with Souro Foiritan 10Jun YC110 after liberation of Caldari Prime from two hundreds years of gallente occupation and oppression.

Shall I remember that this treaty lasted only five years, because Gallente violated it?

Just like previous treaty of YC35 was violated by Adm. Alexander Noir...

Does anyone else want to make any more treaties with gallente for them to violate them again?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#36 - 2016-12-05 00:35:52 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:


The genocide was planned by Gallentean commanders, since after the invasion began, the titan has moved down to low orbit - a perfect place from where it could fall on the surface. Then gallente space horde jumped in and forced the ship to fall down, committing probably one of the greatest atrocities of modern time. The scar on Kaalakiota mountains will be remainder for this gallentean atrocity for millions of years.

Blame the Federation all you want, I'm not going to stop you. But is was a Caldari who gave the order to put the Titan there in the first place, and a Caldari who followed that order. The reason that the Levithian fell is because the Caldari lacked the foresight of consiquences and doubted the Federation's resolve in the matter. In short, you made a tactical error and it cost you more then you wanted to pay.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Salome Arran
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2016-12-05 02:41:42 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:


The genocide was planned by Gallentean commanders, since after the invasion began, the titan has moved down to low orbit - a perfect place from where it could fall on the surface. Then gallente space horde jumped in and forced the ship to fall down, committing probably one of the greatest atrocities of modern time. The scar on Kaalakiota mountains will be remainder for this gallentean atrocity for millions of years.

Blame the Federation all you want, I'm not going to stop you. But is was a Caldari who gave the order to put the Titan there in the first place, and a Caldari who followed that order. The reason that the Levithian fell is because the Caldari lacked the foresight of consiquences and doubted the Federation's resolve in the matter. In short, you made a tactical error and it cost you more then you wanted to pay.

What comes to mind is putting an asteroid in orbit, then getting mad when it DE-orbits. Nasty.
woodrow Ormand
Ormand Security Services
#38 - 2016-12-05 06:24:20 UTC
If my information is correct, the order given to Yanala was to doomsday the planet, preventing the titan from doing so is saving lives. Yes the titan crashed into the planet. Far less lives were lost there in comparrison to multiple planetary bombardments
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#39 - 2016-12-05 06:30:15 UTC
Are you people still attempting to have a sensible conversation with Kim-baka? You realize this is pointless, right?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#40 - 2016-12-05 14:11:56 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Are you people still attempting to have a sensible conversation with Kim-baka? You realize this is pointless, right?

We may or may not be attempting such a thing. Or we may just be attempting to frustrate her by challenging her perspectives... I would be content with a sensible conversation occurring (although I wouldn't be the one to instigate it), but fully realize the futility of that effort based on the results of previous attempts.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

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