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Science & Industry

 
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Looking to get into industry

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ACreatorPT
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2016-12-04 09:55:50 UTC
greetings fellow capsullers!

Im a player that has never done anything even remotely related to industry. Been reading up a lot, messing with some tools like IPH and fuzzworks, and watching videos from other people.

Atm i have 2 account where i have my main , a scanner alt , and 4 market traders.

I am looking to train my scanner alt into a Hauler and 2 or 3 of the market toons (if i can afford enough plex for it on an incursions sallary) into fully fledged industrialists.

This is were i can into problems:


I would if possible be looking to start operating my industry alts to some profitable degree (mostly to get experience and if possible some profit) in arround 3 months (is that unrealistic?)


given this i am having several problems developing skill queues for these characters:

- Should i look to be able to produce most of the t2 stuff and for that rush to lvl 3 skills overall (could this even make me profitable??)

- Should specialize in some items but be subject to the market swings making said market unprofitable for a certain amount of time?


- what type of hauler should i aint to train 1st on my scanner alt?




Some notes about my future plan so you can give better advice:

- im not looking into mine my own stuff. preferably i would like to buy the raw minerals (especialy if they are on a low price compared to normal)

- preferably since im a trader by heart the things i would produce would vary probably weeky to respond to spikes in market.




If possible (and you have the handy) could you provide me with a skill queue that you would do for this sutuation / reccomend?




Thanks for reading so far,
Thanks for the help!

sry for long post :D

The eternal noob
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2016-12-04 10:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
My main characters have reached the point where I can pause their training without affecting their gameplay so I am using the subscription queues to train new industry ALTS to fill the empty slots on my accounts.

In 4 months with +3 implants and a remap, you can train a character for:

- near perfect PI. Command Center & Interplanetary Consolidation 5, Planetology skills at 4. Customs Code Expertise 5
- near perfect research/copying. Science, Research, Laboratory Operation, Metallurgy and Advanced Industry 5, Advanced Laboratory Operation 4, Scientific Networking 3
- Basic manufacturing. Industry and Mass Production 5, Advanced Mass Production 4, Supply Chain Management 3
- Basic piloting skills including Gallente Industrial 3

Map Charisma/Intelligence for the Command Center and Interplanetary Consolidation skills; then Intelligence/Memory for everything else.

With the int/mem attribute map you can get science skills to level 4 in about 5 days each so another 2 months will give you most of these for a well trained T2 invention/production/PI character.

It will take a month to get the PI skills trained but the first character I trained this way setup her planets to make Robotics in highsec and is earning me over 300 million/month from that alone. She's also copying blueprints to make capital BPC kits for sale on contract - quite profitable and her training is only half done.

Edit: added the customs code expertise skill - train it while you have Charisma mapped - will take a little over a week. Absolutely required in highsec - cuts the NPC component of the POCO tax in half.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-12-04 11:31:36 UTC
Will tell you a bit about my setup (one char).

My home is Perimeter/Jita, and I'm producing a few T1 but mostly T2 products (including the invention), usually in 2 steps, with some profitable components as the lead in. I don't mine, just buy the minerals in Jita, and the base material for the intermediate components. My PI farm is unrelated to this, just for additional profit.

I choose my products based on market demand. A product qualifies if a) it has a margin based on sell orders of 50% or higher and b) can be sold to buy orders without (much) loss. Then I check all the steps (T1, components, invention) for profit contribution and pick the top most 2-3 for vertical integration. Sometimes it happens, that I stop at T1, because selling those directly nets me already 90% of the profit.

Then I fire up my production lines running in 24/48 cycles maximum, to be able to react fast to price anomalies. The production happens in an NPC station a few jumps away but occasionally I now use Karin's Raitarus in Perimeter if the TE bonus is worth the higher costs.

The final products are sold mostly in Jita, some in other hubs. When I'm on expecting me to defend my orders. Production essentially is a form of trading, cutting out the "buy low and wait" part of the equation. You can combine it with buy orders but those usually need much more aggressive market PvP.

Skills are "easy", means: find the profitable product, put the BPs in the industry window and check what skills you need to build (more), research (more) or invent with reasonable chance. Train or inject those. Handy are the skills for remote control of jobs, and the market skills of course.

I'm my own NPC alt.
ACreatorPT
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2016-12-04 11:35:34 UTC
Thanks for the help!

yeah i forgot that i wanted to avoid PI. one of my characters has perfect PI but i just cant be bothered yo use it.... Also since i dont know if ill rellocate to WH in a near future (4 months or so) so ill probably re-evaluate there.

Interested very much tough is in the near perfect research/copying.

Iv never used the contract system except to get ppl to haul my stuff, So no idea how profitable it is to reseach and sell later or just make BPCs and sell them in the meantime. If i were to buy these would it majorly impact my profit margins?



Thanks again for the help. So far seems ill go with the Basic manufacturing. Industry and Mass Production 5, Advanced Mass Production 4, Supply Chain Management 3 and then get scince skills to lvl 4.

what you you reccommend as a 1st hauler if i start producing stuff in hi-sec?

The eternal noob
ACreatorPT
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-12-04 11:39:53 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Will tell you a bit about my setup (one char).

My home is Perimeter/Jita, and I'm producing a few T1 but mostly T2 products (including the invention), usually in 2 steps, with some profitable components as the lead in. I don't mine, just buy the minerals in Jita, and the base material for the intermediate components. My PI farm is unrelated to this, just for additional profit.

I choose my products based on market demand. A product qualifies if a) it has a margin based on sell orders of 50% or higher and b) can be sold to buy orders without (much) loss. Then I check all the steps (T1, components, invention) for profit contribution and pick the top most 2-3 for vertical integration. Sometimes it happens, that I stop at T1, because selling those directly nets me already 90% of the profit.

Then I fire up my production lines running in 24/48 cycles maximum, to be able to react fast to price anomalies. The production happens in an NPC station a few jumps away but occasionally I now use Karin's Raitarus in Perimeter if the TE bonus is worth the higher costs.

The final products are sold mostly in Jita, some in other hubs. When I'm on expecting me to defend my orders. Production essentially is a form of trading, cutting out the "buy low and wait" part of the equation. You can combine it with buy orders but those usually need much more aggressive market PvP.

Skills are "easy", means: find the profitable product, put the BPs in the industry window and check what skills you need to build (more), research (more) or invent with reasonable chance. Train or inject those. Handy are the skills for remote control of jobs, and the market skills of course.



Seems exactly what i want to do. Build fast in short queues to respond to market demands. Those trading skills arent a problem since the characters ill be training for industry are my market alts :D Also looking exactly to do as max vertical integration on my business as the new station taxes are going to cut even harder no profit than they already do.


Given that you plan like mine seems to be able to quickly respond to markets needs do you use a lots of purchased BPCs? how hard do they tend to cut on profit margin? (wanting to know since i dont want to get scammed on BPCs xD)

The eternal noob
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-12-04 12:48:48 UTC
Purchasing BPCs is just part of the profit calculation. For one product I bought BPCs first because the BPO in the ~300M price area didn't seem worth because I wasn't expecting the opportunity window to last long. But it went on and on and I finally bought the BPO. Today I have BPOs for all the T1 stuff I need.

My haulers: Prowler (upgrade from Wreathe), Mastodon, and Kryos. So I would recommend to start with a general purpose T1 hauler like the Wreathe (or other racial equivalent) plus the Kryos for mineral hold (60K).

I'm my own NPC alt.
ACreatorPT
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2016-12-04 13:01:19 UTC
How do i determine if the price of a BPC is a legit one? i never used the contract system and have no idea what to expect. do they on average cost 3% of the whole isk spent to build an item? 10%? basically how do i know iv im overpaying a lot for BPCs?

And once again thanks for tue useful and quick answers so far ;D

The eternal noob
Haffsol
#8 - 2016-12-04 13:33:56 UTC
You use a spreadsheet, a tool like fuzzwork or a program like IPH and check which is the expected profit you're making on a certain item. Then you can see if the BPCs are cutting too much into that profit or even negating it.

That being said, lemme give you my 2 cents. There are mainly 3 branches of indy activities: PI, mining and manufacturing. Of course each of those has so many ramifications in themselves that they're like chapters in a book. But - there's always a but - the third is the only one that doesn't directly convert time into isk. It takes a lot of studying and planning, not to mention hauling and setting up your own production chain, in order to be profitable, or at least to be more profitable than the first two.

That's why every industrialist that didn't start with a friend showering him with isk started with one of those. I'd suggest doing the same.

At least if you hate those and really want to build stuff, take 1-2 months in order to skill up at least two characters (you want a dedicated hauler asap), save some isk and invest them in assets like BPO, ships (barges, a freighter, blockade runners, DST....) and maybe a small pos as long as they're not removed.
ACreatorPT
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2016-12-04 13:39:58 UTC
Haffsol wrote:
You use a spreadsheet, a tool like fuzzwork or a program like IPH and check which is the expected profit you're making on a certain item. Then you can see if the BPCs are cutting too much into that profit or even negating it.

That being said, lemme give you my 2 cents. There are mainly 3 branches of indy activities: PI, mining and manufacturing. Of course each of those has so many ramifications in themselves that they're like chapters in a book. But - there's always a but - the third is the only one that doesn't directly convert time into isk. It takes a lot of studying and planning, not to mention hauling and setting up your own production chain, in order to be profitable, or at least to be more profitable than the first two.

That's why every industrialist that didn't start with a friend showering him with isk started with one of those. I'd suggest doing the same.

At least if you hate those and really want to build stuff, take 1-2 months in order to skill up at least two characters (you want a dedicated hauler asap), save some isk and invest them in assets like BPO, ships (barges, a freighter, blockade runners, DST....) and maybe a small pos as long as they're not removed.




Its what i plan on doing. i wasnt thinking of building a single items for at least 3 months while i train them + a hauler alt.

Aslso what i was wondering about the BPCs is how do i know it gettin a good deal on them. messing with IPH i can easely see if will be profitable or not. What im wondering is what % of costs in BPC would = a good BPC purchase

The eternal noob
Zad Murrard
Frozen Dawn Inc
Frozen Dawn Alliance
#10 - 2016-12-05 07:43:26 UTC
Good BPC purchase is whenever it enables you to make profit at that moment which you would not be able to make otherwise.

The approach I use is that I have for T1 BPOs and for T2 my own invented copies. I make invented copies with the idea that 95% of the time I have enough of them.

If ever the market demand at any moment is such that I should produce more but cannot as I don't have any free BPOs/invented copies, then I look for BPCs from contracts. As the profit calculations are available, it is very easy to compare the price of available BPCs to the profit.