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low-sec belts
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Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-01-19 09:48:44 UTC
+1 for Spank.

Also, why are gate guns (which are larger than BS guns) able to easily track a fast frigate? I think lowsec gate guns should have lowered tracking, allowing frigates more access to on-gate pvp.

Just a thought.

I'm back!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#42 - 2012-01-19 09:51:38 UTC
I don't mean remove bounties from null sec rats! (will check for typos).

The average null sec player has to have ways of making ISK afterall.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#43 - 2012-01-19 09:52:12 UTC
Jude Lloyd wrote:
+1 for Spank.

Also, why are gate guns (which are larger than BS guns) able to easily track a fast frigate? I think lowsec gate guns should have lowered tracking, allowing frigates more access to on-gate pvp.

Just a thought.


Because having interceptor tackle on lowsec gates would be broken?
Heretic4Life
Dark Fantasy
#44 - 2012-01-19 09:53:00 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Jude Lloyd wrote:
+1 for Spank.

Also, why are gate guns (which are larger than BS guns) able to easily track a fast frigate? I think lowsec gate guns should have lowered tracking, allowing frigates more access to on-gate pvp.

Just a thought.


Because having interceptor tackle on lowsec gates would be broken?


And awesome.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#45 - 2012-01-19 09:57:01 UTC
I remember when people used to suicide tackle in Rifters.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-01-19 11:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Plutonian wrote:
@Smiling Menace:


I won't deny that stuff exists, but it can be worked around. Bait can be popped before the trap springs (or simply avoided... they're generally not too subtle). Camps can be seen on the map or run in fast frigs. Smartie-BS can be scanned from gate scanpoints. Blobs can generally be avoided by single pilots (we're far more maneuverable).

But I would not remove the camps, bait ships, blobs, pirates, or even those annoying ECM-using f**ks for anything. Because it's the challenge that makes lowsec fun. When I'm in lowsec I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that everyone wants to kill me. It's actually rather comforting... I don't have to worry about who my enemies are, they're listed right there in local. Lol

Tonight I had to move exactly one (1) metric buttload of researched BPO's to an Empire hub. Eight jumps through lowsec. Five jumps through Empire. Guess which part I sweated? The lowsec portion was done in a standard fighting Rifter. The Empire leg done in a tanked battleship with sweaty palms. I was safer in lowsec!

I don't expect the true 'carebear' to ever come to lowsec. Like the Joker said, "Decent people shouldn't live here... they'd be happier somewhere else." But for those looking for some excitement, and I feel there are many in Empire who feel this way, lowsec is a great place to find some fun. (Jeeze... I saved the Damsel for three damn years and she keeps going back to that damn brothel!! WTF?!)

I believe Eve needs a PvP outlet that doesn't require the responsibilities of nullsec. Currently, unless you're willing to wardec innocent non-PvP'ers in Empire (which I'd never do) or can-flip miners (which I'd also never do) or suffer the artificial-ality of duels (is that even a word?), you go to lowsec for a good fight. That's what CCP needs to focus on when dealing with the area.




Again, I agree with you. Low sec can be alot of fun and exciting IF you know what you are doing.

That's not really the problem though. The problem is actually getting people to go there.

The low sec pocket I used to live in had virtually no-one there from 1 week to the next! I could've sat in a belt with an Orca and mined with drones 23/7 (this is an example, God I hate mining) without loosing it!

To me, that's the biggest problem in low sec, it's even less inhabited than null.

We should be trying to think of ways to encourage (not bully!) people that do want to try something a little more exciting without pissing them off so much they never come back.

Biggest problem I found as a noob was actually getting into low sec in the first place. Gate camping is so lame, if it was made considerably harder to gate camp in low, you would have more people moving through and some might even stay.

Lady Spank wrote:
I remember when people used to suicide tackle in Rifters.


lol when I was a noob, I remember doing this on low sec gates. Not a Rifter though, Incursus of Doom Big smile
Plutonian
Intransigent
#47 - 2012-01-19 23:16:47 UTC
Would love some input on a crazy idea from the dedicated pirates if you guys don't mind. ('cause if anyone can find loopholes, it's pirates Pirate)


What would happen if gate guns were reduced in strength (applied damage) by a factor of 10? So, where a gate gun previously would have done 100 dps, it now does 10 dps. (I have no idea how much damage a sentry gun does right now, so that number was just plucked from thin air as an example.)

Then, the number of gate guns were increased dependent upon the security status of the system and the system next to it (the one the gate leads to).

So, on the Jel gate in Egghelende system, you'd have perhaps 12 sentry guns (remember, doing only a 10th of their current damage). This simulates Empire considering this gate important and thus more heavily guarded.

But, on a gate in an obscure .2 sec status system, which leads to a .1 system, you'd have maybe 2 gate guns. These could probably be tanked in a solidly-fit heavy cruiser like a Rupture or Vexor.

I've never participated in a gate camp in lowsec, so I have no idea how this would play out. But the goal is to 1.) make it difficult to permacamp Empire-to-Lowsec systems (i.e., the OMS camp where T3 cruisers are boosted to astronomical levels and can catch frigates and even shuttles occasionally), and 2.) shake up combat a bit by allowing some smaller ships types to engage on gates further from the 'watchful eyes of the law'.

Would it work? Or go haywire when the first clever pirate finds the Ultimate Loophole?
SidtheKid100
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#48 - 2012-01-20 01:53:18 UTC
Plutonian wrote:


~snip~

The reason I'm telling you this is: Your perceptions of lowsec are wrong.



QFT

And GOD, I wish I saw you around Amamake when I was solo PvPing.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#49 - 2012-01-20 02:04:13 UTC
Heretic4Life wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Jude Lloyd wrote:
+1 for Spank.

Also, why are gate guns (which are larger than BS guns) able to easily track a fast frigate? I think lowsec gate guns should have lowered tracking, allowing frigates more access to on-gate pvp.

Just a thought.


Because having interceptor tackle on lowsec gates would be broken?


And awesome.


No need for interceptor, you can use insta lock loki to do same.

It is good that there is different environments in EVE which all has their own tricks and such. Game would be boring if there would be only 0.0. Lowsec And highsec has more complex engagement rules and that makes those harder places to have pvp.

0.0 is easiest place to pvp, there might have hardest player base to engage but rules are simplest.

Highsec with agro rules, wardecs, neutrals and concorde makes it most complex system to have pvp.

I still miss time when people uses cans for mining, those times griefing in belts caused often very complex agro situations and those who managed to keep things in control usually won.
Stukkler Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-01-20 04:01:44 UTC
let the sec status of an area decide the dmg for gate guns. .4 powerful as but not quite insta death like the concordokken .1 like getting aggro from rats in a belt (not a big deal as long as you dont fall asleep)
Torn Hymen
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-01-20 06:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Torn Hymen
Strikes me that part the issue appears to be lack of pilots for the size of space. Maybe introduce a story line that a giant cosmic event wipes out a 1000 odd systems and condense the population somewhat. COuld take it one step further and shrink hi sec a little plus remove the huge amount of low sec stations.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#52 - 2012-01-20 08:23:58 UTC
SidtheKid100 wrote:
Plutonian wrote:


~snip~

The reason I'm telling you this is: Your perceptions of lowsec are wrong.



QFT

And GOD, I wish I saw you around Amamake when I was solo PvPing.


Thank you! I look forward to gracing your killboard in the victim category. Smile

I'm actually moving back, and looking to settle in Eszur system. Turns out the Hevrice-OMS-Costolle route gets pretty dead during the week. And frigates are a little more rare than in Heimatar... everyone likes the big hardware out there.

Look me up, assuming I ever get moved. Why O Why did I have to insure and rig every single ship in my hangar?! Must have been drinking that night. Ugh
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#53 - 2012-01-20 09:06:27 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
Would love some input on a crazy idea from the dedicated pirates if you guys don't mind. ('cause if anyone can find loopholes, it's pirates Pirate)


What would happen if gate guns were reduced in strength (applied damage) by a factor of 10? So, where a gate gun previously would have done 100 dps, it now does 10 dps. (I have no idea how much damage a sentry gun does right now, so that number was just plucked from thin air as an example.)

Then, the number of gate guns were increased dependent upon the security status of the system and the system next to it (the one the gate leads to).

So, on the Jel gate in Egghelende system, you'd have perhaps 12 sentry guns (remember, doing only a 10th of their current damage). This simulates Empire considering this gate important and thus more heavily guarded.

But, on a gate in an obscure .2 sec status system, which leads to a .1 system, you'd have maybe 2 gate guns. These could probably be tanked in a solidly-fit heavy cruiser like a Rupture or Vexor.

I've never participated in a gate camp in lowsec, so I have no idea how this would play out. But the goal is to 1.) make it difficult to permacamp Empire-to-Lowsec systems (i.e., the OMS camp where T3 cruisers are boosted to astronomical levels and can catch frigates and even shuttles occasionally), and 2.) shake up combat a bit by allowing some smaller ships types to engage on gates further from the 'watchful eyes of the law'.

Would it work? Or go haywire when the first clever pirate finds the Ultimate Loophole?

No, it wouldn't work. A cane with slaves can get nearly 100k ehp, and still fit a sebo, so unless gateguns were so badass they were a threat to gangs with that kind of EHP it would make very little difference.

Even then, you'd just see an increase in the number of camps with pimped out 200k ehp T3s and logistics support.

The "solution" to low sec gate camps and getting new players into low sec has never been about creating more rewards (if you are any good, low sec is already pretty damn profitable) it's about teaching new players to use scouts and only fly cloaked ships. At the moment an experienced player will only fly around in cloaked T3s, transports etc. In contrast noobs complain about getting ganked coz they just jumped in blind in a badly fitted battlecruiser.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-01-20 10:29:37 UTC
Bent Barrel wrote:
This and remove bounties from non NPC zerosec. That way the zerosec income will become mainly production and trade (as it should be) and move the mid level NPC bounties to lowsec. Take a hint from sleepers. No bounties, everything is in the salvage/loot.

returning people into HIGH-sec? Big smile

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#55 - 2012-01-20 10:30:36 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Bent Barrel wrote:
This and remove bounties from non NPC zerosec. That way the zerosec income will become mainly production and trade (as it should be) and move the mid level NPC bounties to lowsec. Take a hint from sleepers. No bounties, everything is in the salvage/loot.

returning people into HIGH-sec? Big smile

Remove minerals from drones.

/thread

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-01-20 11:11:15 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
@Smiling Menace:

I believe Eve needs a PvP outlet that doesn't require the responsibilities of nullsec. Currently, unless you're willing to wardec innocent non-PvP'ers in Empire (which I'd never do) or can-flip miners (which I'd also never do) or suffer the artificial-ality of duels (is that even a word?), you go to lowsec for a good fight. That's what CCP needs to focus on when dealing with the area.




They do have that it is called faction warfare. You saying that tells me you never tried it thus you think that outlet is not available.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-01-20 13:29:57 UTC
Low sec should be a scumbag-infested craphole where down on their luck charity cases with little to no social skills try to eek out a living surrounded by vicious pirates and marauding militias who answer to nobody.



I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-01-20 15:01:16 UTC
Give lowsec new original minerals which can be mined only there. Add those minerals to every T2 module or ship building requirements.
Move all lv4 missions to lowsec, give bears from high as little as possible to make them move to low or null.
Problem solved.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-01-20 15:58:07 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Give lowsec new original minerals which can be mined only there. Add those minerals to every T2 module or ship building requirements.

result: +1000000 whiny threads "CCP! CCP! stop 0.0 alliances from invading low-sec!!!!"Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-01-20 16:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
I see there are many lowsecs.

As a lowsec carebear and explorer I find that I mostly run into the following:

1) Other explorers - damned competition
2) Fleets forming up to head out on a null roam - they tend to stick together and get worried when a frigate that's not blue flies by
3) AFK toons sitting in stations
4) Other carebears looking after their POSes, harvesting gas, crooning over their planets, you know, the stuff we lowsec bears people like to do.

But pirates? Real pirates? I remember I saw one... three months ago? He was a sneaky one taught me a few tricks (inadvertently) before we both went on our ways.