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ECs and Fuel
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gregora mai
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2016-12-03 19:40:36 UTC
I was satisfied when I read about ECs the first time. Nice to see that Manfacturing is going ahead curently.
But after the last days I was thinking about hte benefits and I am not able to get all of them.
First of all, consumption of Fuel is a big point. Why am I able to run a small POS with all neded benfits to invent, copy and manufacture and paying 10 blocks a hour and for an EC I have to spend 27 block an hour?

Wouldn't it make more sence to change the current system to an EC consumption in Fuel blocks?

A med EC would need 10 blocks per hour
A Large EC would need 20 blocks per hour and
A XL EC would need 40 block per hour

That would make the new ECs more econimic and smaller groups would be able to run and profit from the new system....
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2016-12-03 21:35:16 UTC
As a small industrialist I would also like a replacement for the small POS but I don't expect it to happen. Each EC can provide the equivalent of a POS to any number of players or corporations. I rented an office in a Raitaru yesterday - rent is 0 ISK. Tax rate is less than 1/3 what I would pay in an NPC station, bonuses are as good as my POS, owner pays the fuel bill.

It will take a while for me to wrap my head around not owning my infrastructure - it's part of the game I enjoy but the game is evolving. Our choice is adapt or die.
Bromo Bronopol
Kissy Kissy With Your Pants Off
#3 - 2016-12-05 06:15:20 UTC
Would be interested in how that works out for you Do Little, as much as I don't like the thought of not having my own setup, like you, being a small industrialist, this could be the way it's going to have to be...
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2016-12-05 22:54:55 UTC
It is very effective to have a specialized citadel or EC, with minimal services.

Plus, it allows some services to be specialized for one particular structure, i.e. fuel reduction.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#5 - 2016-12-05 23:22:38 UTC
I was in a state of shock when I saw how much it was going to cost to research my Orca BPO to ME8 at the NPC station I had been using so I was looking for a research facility with lower system cost index. I saved 2 weeks and 60 million ISK by submitting the job at the EC.

My POS still offers better bonuses for everything else I do but I can see a future where I manufacture at 1 EC, invent at another and research at a 3rd. Which will be a PITA - it's bad enough moving stuff between labs/arrays at the POS!
gregora mai
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2016-12-06 09:32:41 UTC
Do Little wrote:
it's bad enough moving stuff between labs/arrays at the POS!


It is not! Working with Contis in an EC is the same.
But the main reason for my thread is the huge amount of Fuel Blocks every modul needs instead of a POS with the same modules....
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#7 - 2016-12-06 09:50:48 UTC
EC is not intended as a solo facility. POS you have 1 set of corp hangars. EC has an infinite number. 3 corporations sharing an EC have lower fuel cost than each having their own small POS. Also line members in a corp don't need access to corp hangars to use the facility - they can work from personal hangars.

In an EC, I can tell my advanced component production job to deliver to my module production container and my module production jobs can deliver to my finished goods container. In a POS, I need to fly there and physically move the components from the component array to the equipment array and I can't use containers to sort stuff (unless they are anchored separately).

Small operations are probably going to be better off renting offices in a public EC. The new structures tie bonuses to rigs rather than modules so EC's will need to be specialized. I want bonuses for component manufacturing and blueprint copying in whatever facility I call home. Other stuff I can either live without a bonus or shop around for the best deal.

I don't expect I'll need to worry about it before Fanfest - POS aren't going away for a while.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-12-06 22:25:37 UTC
Do Little wrote:
I was in a state of shock when I saw how much it was going to cost to research my Orca BPO to ME8 at the NPC station I had been using so I was looking for a research facility with lower system cost index. I saved 2 weeks and 60 million ISK by submitting the job at the EC.

My POS still offers better bonuses for everything else I do but I can see a future where I manufacture at 1 EC, invent at another and research at a 3rd. Which will be a PITA - it's bad enough moving stuff between labs/arrays at the POS!

Good luck, that EC is not removed with fire during the job's runtime.

A very basic Raitaru setup with manufacturing only and 3 T1 rigs is about ~1500M and costs ~4M in fuel per day. Totally affordable for solo players, but there is the problem of protection/replacement ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-12-06 23:20:10 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Do Little wrote:
I was in a state of shock when I saw how much it was going to cost to research my Orca BPO to ME8 at the NPC station I had been using so I was looking for a research facility with lower system cost index. I saved 2 weeks and 60 million ISK by submitting the job at the EC.

My POS still offers better bonuses for everything else I do but I can see a future where I manufacture at 1 EC, invent at another and research at a 3rd. Which will be a PITA - it's bad enough moving stuff between labs/arrays at the POS!

Good luck, that EC is not removed with fire during the job's runtime.

A very basic Raitaru setup with manufacturing only and 3 T1 rigs is about ~1500M and costs ~4M in fuel per day. Totally affordable for solo players, but there is the problem of protection/replacement ...


people have been saying "EC's are gonna be easy targets, any one that gets set up is going to be destroyed immediately" since they where first announced.

well they have been out for a while now. and i'm seeing public EC's popping up around every single trade hub and NOT getting burned to the ground... could it be that the risk was massively exaggerated?

besides, it takes a while to actually take them down, if it looks like the EC is going to pop in that time you can just cancel the order. sure the materials are going to be lost, but you will deny the chance of them dropping. and you at least get the BP back.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#10 - 2016-12-06 23:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
Tipa Riot wrote:
Good luck, that EC is not removed with fire during the job's runtime.

A very basic Raitaru setup with manufacturing only and 3 T1 rigs is about ~1500M and costs ~4M in fuel per day. Totally affordable for solo players, but there is the problem of protection/replacement ...


There is no reward without risk - at least the BPO is protected by asset safety. The facility would be no safer if I built my own. There are twice as many of them in region as there were the last time I looked. Safety in numbers?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-12-07 18:45:01 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Good luck, that EC is not removed with fire during the job's runtime.

A very basic Raitaru setup with manufacturing only and 3 T1 rigs is about ~1500M and costs ~4M in fuel per day. Totally affordable for solo players, but there is the problem of protection/replacement ...


There is no reward without risk - at least the BPO is protected by asset safety. The facility would be no safer if I built my own. There are twice as many of them in region as there were the last time I looked. Safety in numbers?

Yes, same as with Astrahus, wait till the space is littered with them and then build your +1 and nobody cares anymore.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Les Routiers
Proudly Snoring
#12 - 2016-12-26 15:22:24 UTC
Problems I have with using someone else's citadels:

1. Lack of versatility. Others have commented on that at length, so I won't go there again. Just saying.

2. Can't pick location. POS is easier to move, or I can find a system that suits me because it's not too far from places I like, hubs I use and so on. Not everybody wants to be within 5j of Jita.

3. Having to trust the owners for fueling up their citadels. Say I set up shop in an Astrahus / Raitaru. Everything works. After a while, the service modules go offline because the owners can't be bothered to fuel it anymore. Solution to that one I guess is to move to Perimeter and eat the index cost. Looks like we're back to the pre-Crius situation, only with more of the production concentrated around Jita? Oh, joy...

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