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Drake changes from CSM minutes.
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Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-01-19 08:29:50 UTC
I haven't had time to read through the minutes yet.

but is this a stand alone nerf, or are they going through the other Caldari ships as well?

Because these offensive ships it should be in line with, namely the Raven and the Caracal are only seen in PVE.

Please take note that wether or not it comes through PvP and mission test on SiSI it there is a chance the number of pilots running missions and doing complexes in lowsec will decrease, because the risks go up. And the step from PvE to PvP might get even harder for missile pilots.
Jazelle Hazaad
#62 - 2012-01-19 10:18:40 UTC
Where is Von CokeSnort when we need his trolling sooooo badddllyyy?
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-01-19 10:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
Ok fine whatever the drake is getting a little bit of a nerf. The thing that bothers me is the amount of other ships that seriously need to be fixed and buffed first. Why is CCP trying to fix things that arnt broken???????

I have more space likes than you. 
Munio J Makeanen
United Starbase Systems
#64 - 2012-01-19 11:04:31 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
if these changes did go through, i may actually allow drakes back in my fleets, then they may actually be able to do something good for once insted of just dieing VERY slowly.


OK Name noted as the FC to never ever fly withLol
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#65 - 2012-01-19 11:20:28 UTC
Well At least it will be a better PVE boat.

But for PVP it will be useless with the EM Hole.
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-01-19 11:23:29 UTC
Niko Takahashi wrote:
Well At least it will be a better PVE boat.

But for PVP it will be useless with the EM Hole.


There is this thing called EM hardener, try using one sometime.
Dig Ito
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-01-19 11:39:54 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Niko Takahashi wrote:
Well At least it will be a better PVE boat.

But for PVP it will be useless with the EM Hole.


There is this thing called EM hardener, try using one sometime.



Obviously you dont know much about drakes, and there is no need in being a jerk...thank you
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-01-19 11:57:21 UTC
Dig Ito wrote:
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Niko Takahashi wrote:
Well At least it will be a better PVE boat.

But for PVP it will be useless with the EM Hole.


There is this thing called EM hardener, try using one sometime.



Obviously you dont know much about drakes, and there is no need in being a jerk...thank you


Fine then, EM rig.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2012-01-19 12:15:58 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.


"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus."


I'd be delighted that Caldari finally get a high DPS "gank" ship. A Drake with HAM IIs would be doing massive damage out to ~30Km, and it would still have 6 mids and a pretty decent tank compared to the other tier 2 BCs

The range bonus would also make the HML Drake an even more effective large fleet ship than it already is. Plus you could put AMLs on them as well if the bonus applied to light missiles too, and boatmurder pretty much any frigate class ships on the battlefield. As "range = tank", it would also still be very effective for PvE, but less so in it's current role of near-stationary damage-sponge. It would basically become a cheap Tengu, since it would basically be much the same ship except with a larger sig and more EHP.

All in all, the proposed change can hardly be called a "nerf". It's a repurposing that would give Caldari pilots a cheap, powerful and effective medium sized high-DPS ship. In fact if anything, it's a boost to the Drake in my opinion. I'd certainly fly them more than I do the current iteration.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-01-19 12:33:03 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Ok fine whatever the drake is getting a little bit of a nerf. The thing that bothers me is the amount of other ships that seriously need to be fixed and buffed first. Why is CCP trying to fix things that arnt broken???????


Drake broke the entire game tho.
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#71 - 2012-01-19 12:42:03 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Dig Ito wrote:
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Niko Takahashi wrote:
Well At least it will be a better PVE boat.

But for PVP it will be useless with the EM Hole.


There is this thing called EM hardener, try using one sometime.



Obviously you dont know much about drakes, and there is no need in being a jerk...thank you


Fine then, EM rig.


LOL

Yeah I know silent whine about the current shield resistance spread for Caldari

If you have tackle need then the mid slots are very rare commodity.

If they do not like the passive regen shield tank why they just do not nerf the shield recharge time by 50 %.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#72 - 2012-01-19 13:01:13 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Ok fine whatever the drake is getting a little bit of a nerf. The thing that bothers me is the amount of other ships that seriously need to be fixed and buffed first. Why is CCP trying to fix things that arnt broken???????


Drake broke the entire game tho.


Sorry, what?

Drake Army was last year, when server conditions uniquely favoured massed Drake fleets. Now thanks to Team Gridlock, Drake fleets are not even the second best choice for massed subcap fleets. Alphafleet and Hellcat doctrines both wipe the floor with remotely comparably-sized Drake fleets now that lag isn't the problem it was.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#73 - 2012-01-19 13:05:44 UTC
Just in case people aren't getting this btw:

Drake losing a +5% kinetic bonus in favour of a -5% RoF bonus is a HUGE boost to the PvE effectiveness of this ship

It's "only" an 8% DPS boost for Kinetic damage, but it's a 33% DPS buff for Explosive, EM & Thermal.

And +50% range Shocked

If you can't see how that makes it a better PvE ship then I don't know what to say to you.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-01-19 13:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Hellcats are getting whacked by the nerf bat as well. 100mn AB needs to go at the very least. and Caldari need a full redesign, which will probably come with the new missiles. most people dont give a fuk about the nullsec meta. most pvp'ers dont use it, just the monkeys in the major alliances. alpha fleets have always been around, so thats nothing new.

Drakes and Canes broke the entire game for MOST people, which was well outlined by one of the devs. no reason to fly HAC's, t1 cruisers, CS's, etc. when you can just fast track to a tier 2 BC.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-01-19 13:57:37 UTC
Reposting from the other thread.

The HAM Drake is going to make a comeback and this is what it will be able to do:

[Drake, HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hobgoblin II x5

Needs 1% pg implant.

Does 615 dps with Rage HAMs, 553 with Navy HAMs, plus 99 drone dps. 62k EHP, 98 shield/sec peak regen, 1038 m/s speed. Can deal selectable damage types. Range on HAMs is 30k, on Rage HAMs 27k.

That's still pretty damn good. In my opinion, this is actually better than the current HAM Drake.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#76 - 2012-01-19 14:20:24 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
Hellcats are getting whacked by the nerf bat as well. 100mn AB needs to go at the very least. and Caldari need a full redesign, which will probably come with the new missiles. most people dont give a fuk about the nullsec meta. most pvp'ers dont use it, just the monkeys in the major alliances. alpha fleets have always been around, so thats nothing new.

Drakes and Canes broke the entire game for MOST people, which was well outlined by one of the devs. no reason to fly HAC's, t1 cruisers, CS's, etc. when you can just fast track to a tier 2 BC.


What nerf is being applied to Hellcats? I didn't see anything about Abaddons or tracking computers in the minutes.

There is plenty of reason to fly HACs. BCs can't replace HACs for the majority of roles that HACs are used for. The only HACs that are "replaced" by BCs are the ones that are just bad in their own right; the Eagle and the Sacrilege, and to a much lesser extent now, the Deimos. No BC is nearly as fast as the Vaga, has anything like the range of the Cerb, could come close to being as good an AHC as the Zealot, can match the drone power of the Ishtar and so on.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-01-19 14:36:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

There is plenty of reason to fly HACs. BCs can't replace HACs for the majority of roles that HACs are used for. The only HACs that are "replaced" by BCs are the ones that are just bad in their own right; the Eagle and the Sacrilege, and to a much lesser extent now, the Deimos.


The Sacrilege is only considered bad because it's a brawler and tier 2 BCs do this slightly better for less ISK. Similar situation with the Deimos.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-01-19 14:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
im telling you the nerf is coming, because no cruiser should be able to fit 100mn AB's. the Tengu is a stupidly OP and broken ship, and it's only a matter of time before CCP sees it.

HACs are only viable for AHAC fleets. to narrow it down even more, only the Zealot is viable for AHAC fleets (maybe Deimos now as well). all the other HAC's are useless compared to tier 2 BC's. tier 3's happily took over the sniping role of the other HAC's. the Eagle is a fuckin joke, and Vagas dont exist any more as they've been replaced by the Cynabal faceroll.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#79 - 2012-01-19 15:04:53 UTC
welp looks like i'll be using web drones from now on.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#80 - 2012-01-19 15:06:26 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
im telling you the nerf is coming, because no cruiser should be able to fit 100mn AB's. the Tengu is a stupidly OP and broken ship, and it's only a matter of time before CCP sees it.

HACs are only viable for AHAC fleets. to narrow it down even more, only the Zealot is viable for AHAC fleets (maybe Deimos now as well). all the other HAC's are useless compared to tier 2 BC's. tier 3's happily took over the sniping role of the other HAC's. the Eagle is a fuckin joke, and Vagas dont exist any more as they've been replaced by the Cynabal faceroll.


tengus is 500m isk plus! you get what you pay for.

and wow... your doing it wrong.