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F2P Restrictions are too great

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Judaa K'Marr
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#41 - 2016-12-02 17:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Judaa K'Marr
Alpha clone exist for one reason, to get the login numbers up. Your purpose in eve is to be a stat on a graph. Should numbers start falling then maybe restrictions shall be altered and possibly cash shop expanded. If numbers stay, expect restrictions will remain.
Keno Skir
#42 - 2016-12-02 17:54:29 UTC
Lunavera Poxicon wrote:
You have a really great game, but the way I see it, for me, I already spent 4-5 months as a subscriber here years ago and eventually it wasn't worth the monthly cost. Putting limitations on the game as heavy as you did ensures players like me won't be here long.


With respect, if you don't plan to subscribe at any point who cares if you stay around? You're providing nothing yet loudly complaining your great contribution to the game isn't being rewarded enough..

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Judaa K'Marr
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#43 - 2016-12-02 17:55:20 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another one... it's slowly even getting on my nervs now...


Can't say you weren't warned.
Memphis Baas
#44 - 2016-12-02 17:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Alpha clone: you get just enough of a free sample to get you to pony up the cash for the full deal. That's the only reason they're letting you play for free.

Free 2 Play: most of these you end up paying MORE than the subscription. Because, simply put, $15 per month is not profitable enough for the game manufacturer. So instead they itemize. You pay $3 for every frigate, $10 for every cruiser, $100 for every battleship, $10,000 for every super capital, no reimbursement if you lose it in PVP (and you will), see how your wallet will like that. People can go through 20-50 frigates in a single weekend, how's $60-$150 per weekend sound to you?

TRUE free-to-play: Go grind 1 billion ISK each month, get a PLEX, and you get full Omega access without having to pay a single dollar or euro. This method exists. Some of us use it. Why do you have to invent / ask for new ones? Go do what we've been doing, nobody's stopping you.

Skins, outfits, and other such, have you seen their cost? Have you seen CCP's "dark and shgritty" color schemes? Yeah, they tried the concept but completely screwed up the pricing.

For everyone who brings up the "CCP will make more money this way" argument, stop. Give them donations if you want, buy PLEX and contract it to CCP. I don't care. I'm sorry but I don't care how much money any business entity makes; if they can't make it in the business world and show a profit, nothing I say or do will fix that, so why worry about such things?
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#45 - 2016-12-02 17:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Neuntausend wrote:
I can subscribe to that. Video games are a luxury not everyone can afford, nor does everyone need to be able to afford them. However, people who can afford luxury blurting out that those who can't should just go and get a better job are probably not aware of how lucky they are, compared to many others. Be thankful that wherever you live you can go to a good school, find a good job, work hard and get decently wealthy, if maybe not rich off it, but don't look down on those who can't.


I know how I come across, but I am sincerely not looking down on anyone. I packed everything I could fit into a car, sold the rest and moved 3,000 miles on my own to get a better job. I tend to have a 'tough love' philosophy, for better or worse. If someone told me "get off your ass, work harder you lazy ****" I don't take that as in insult, I take it as motivation. But this is probably getting very off topic. Shoot me a message in game if you want to keep talking, I don't want to derail this thread.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#46 - 2016-12-02 18:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


I dont play and don't need no such payment I stated why and maybe when I will be back,don't let your raging fanboyism put words in my mouth.



Quote:

To have playable expirience i would need access to all size meta drones and as well as all sub cap race specific ship classes would settle for BS restriction so ppl don't go farming l4 and incursions ez pz but BC tier 3 should be fair game so yes large guns trainable.


What you are saying is " To have a playable experience i require this and this and this. I want it for free. I dont want to pay for it. I DESERVE it! The game is unplayable without it. Also i have enough isk to plex my account, but i dont want to spend my isk on that. I think CCP should just give me what i want for free!"


So i see selfishness, greed, and self entitlement. None of which i consider outstanding qualities.


PS: Dont worry CCP ill cover this "former" players sub. Some alpha that puts in the time and effort and EARNS free to play, can easily replace people like this.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#47 - 2016-12-02 18:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


I dont play and don't need no such payment I stated why and maybe when I will be back,don't let your raging fanboyism put words in my mouth.



Quote:

To have playable expirience i would need access to all size meta drones and as well as all sub cap race specific ship classes would settle for BS restriction so ppl don't go farming l4 and incursions ez pz but BC tier 3 should be fair game so yes large guns trainable.


What you are saying is " To have a playable experience i require this and this and this. I want it for free. I dont want to pay for it. I DESERVE it! The game is unplayable without it. Also i have enough isk to plex my account, but i dont want to spend my isk on that. I think CCP should just give me what i want for free!"


So i see selfishness, greed, and self entitlement. None of which i consider outstanding qualities.


PS: Dont worry CCP ill cover this "former" players sub. Some alpha that puts in the time and effort and EARNS free to play, can easily replace people like this.


Yeah that's my opinion on it to log on now and than and do some eve those would be pre req for me and imo are better suited for vets wasn't my idea for eve to inject f2p (whatever)

What you consider about everyposible thing imaginable me included is not my problem get over your self.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#48 - 2016-12-02 18:30:02 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


I dont play and don't need no such payment I stated why and maybe when I will be back,don't let your raging fanboyism put words in my mouth.



Quote:

To have playable expirience i would need access to all size meta drones and as well as all sub cap race specific ship classes would settle for BS restriction so ppl don't go farming l4 and incursions ez pz but BC tier 3 should be fair game so yes large guns trainable.


What you are saying is " To have a playable experience i require this and this and this. I want it for free. I dont want to pay for it. I DESERVE it! The game is unplayable without it. Also i have enough isk to plex my account, but i dont want to spend my isk on that. I think CCP should just give me what i want for free!"


So i see selfishness, greed, and self entitlement. None of which i consider outstanding qualities.


PS: Dont worry CCP ill cover this "former" players sub. Some alpha that puts in the time and effort and EARNS free to play, can easily replace people like this.


Yeah that's my opinion on it to log on now and than and do some eve those would be pre req for me and imo are better suited for vets wasn't my idea for eve to inject f2p (whatever)

What you consider about everyposible thing imaginable me included is not my problem get over your self.
Before you go...

Can an alpha have your stuff? Im sure they would put it to use and get hours and hours of enjoyment out of it.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#49 - 2016-12-02 18:33:21 UTC
Good idea go for it earning stuff is fun too

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Salvos Rhoska
#50 - 2016-12-02 19:38:25 UTC
Alphas are F2P.
Omegas are not.

It remains to be seen how Alphas will change the landscape of EVE.
Heuristically, the more Alphas there are, the more access to content and success Alphas will have, as they will compete with each other rather than Omegas.

Personally I find the Alpha skill restrictions and SP allowances more than adequate to play EVE.
Especially, for free.

Its a huge upgrade in equity from Trials.

PI has to be cut out, cos its passive earning potential would wreck the market.
Cloaking is cut out to prevent untold numbers of cloaked scouts.
Industry and science are limied out to prevent, again, un5old accounts ruining markets.
Trade skills are restricted to prevent untold station traders crosstrading and wrecking trade.

The best advantage of the current Alpha/Omega system, compared to Trials/subs before, is that you can PvP to you hearts content, gather SP, and use your Alphas as a slow SP recruitment pool for future Omega accounts.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Ravas Geloris
Doomheim
#51 - 2016-12-02 19:47:38 UTC
Fps are already allowed to do too much....they should be limited to t1 frigs and ventures

no pay no get...simple as it has to be....if you don't like that ...get a subscription....

bottom line....
Salvos Rhoska
#52 - 2016-12-02 19:48:19 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
So i see selfishness, greed, and self entitlement. None of which i consider outstanding qualities.


Tbh, all of these are primary qualities in almost all EVE players.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2016-12-02 20:42:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
It remains to be seen how Alphas will change the landscape of EVE.
Heuristically, the more Alphas there are, the more access to content and success Alphas will have, as they will compete with each other rather than Omegas.

They will likely compete with Omegas as well, simply because you can't tell the clone state of another player, unless they are sitting in a non-alpha ship or openly use a non-alpha module.

And, since the chance of an alpha blowing up or otherwise outplaying an omega is not zero, the more alphas there are, the more omegas they will pwn ... heuristically.
Freyja Valco
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-12-02 23:39:26 UTC
As someone who just started playing again after taking a long hiatus (although to be fair, I never played this game much to begin with), I decided to start over. Honestly, I'm getting the experience a new player would right now and it's not that bad. Sure, some restrictions are fairly annoying and it sucks seeing something you want to work toward but game limitations are keeping you from it. However, I'm still having a lot of fun dabbling in a little bit of everything and I don't see myself needing a subscription anytime soon. I'll probably get one anyway so I don't fear running into something I can't use/do but I don't feel the restrictions make the game unplayable. And while yes, I agree subs are kind of old now, you have to remember that the expansions we get are free. Games with the P2P model usually require you to buy the expansions at least, or in some cases, offer P2W items. Cosmetics are a tricky thing because while when it works, it does very well, if it doesn't, it can be a really bad model for the business. I've seen good games fail because of this model, so no it's not always a good decision, even if it feels more consumer friendly.
Besides, I think the main purpose of this "f2p" option is to let people continue playing even when their sub runs out or introduce new players more openly, something a trial usually doesn't do. It's meant to make you want to pay for the sub, it's not really a replacement. Although you could always grind your ass off for plex and never spend a dime.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#55 - 2016-12-03 00:03:55 UTC
I've a few small quibbles with the FTP model, but they are only quibbles.

The main problem with the purchasable items is price. Novelty items like skins, monocles, etc, are simply overpriced. Microtransactions take off because they are so small, that the user doesn't realize they've spent several hundred dollars worth of $2 items. Nickle and Dime the consumer to death. To be a micro-transactio, at the very least it should be significantly less than the monthly fee. In stead, CCP priced the novelty items in the same range, or a significantly higher range than the monthly fee.

The think we have to keep in mind when comparing Eve FTP to other FTP, and before waxing on the virtues of the other FTP games, we need to realize that EVE is not a theme park MMO, so theme park pricing schemes won't work. Also, another problem is EVE is not a clone game, which are the types of games FTP excels. Another area FTP is targeted towards is children, where average age of the Eve player is one of the highest in the industry.

So the point I'm making is that one can't claim that FTP should be done the same as another game, when the game meta is so entirely different. One has to remember that in the end, the goal of going FTP is to increase revenue. Simply changing a game to FTP does not automatically increase revenue. So before one can argue for the virtues of FTP, one has to qualify how doing so will increase the game revenue.

Right now, the theory seems to be such. X% of people that try the game for Y period of time stay on and eventually subscribe for Z revenue. Thus by increasing X or Y, or X and Y, the result should be increased revenue.

As for the Term FTP, like most not rated terms, they all mean whatever the Company uses them means. For Oil "Synthetic" doesn't even have to be "Synthetic" it could be super-cracked oil. Your phone provider might tell you you are on a G3 or G4 network, but the actual network is a lower tier that uses some algorithm to increase the throughput to a higher, but not-quite, equivalent to the speed claimed. These examples are the norm not the exception.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#56 - 2016-12-03 00:07:33 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Lunavera Poxicon wrote:
You have a really great game, but the way I see it, for me, I already spent 4-5 months as a subscriber here years ago and eventually it wasn't worth the monthly cost. Putting limitations on the game as heavy as you did ensures players like me won't be here long.


With respect, if you don't plan to subscribe at any point who cares if you stay around? You're providing nothing yet loudly complaining your great contribution to the game isn't being rewarded enough..

Content. An MMO without players in it isn't much of an MMO, especially not one founded on player interaction like this one.

As for F2P, there are some games where they won't sell you power, instead selling shiny things exclusively. The ones which will charge an arm and a leg in real money for power have serious player retention issues, made a lot more serious by the fact that they won't sell a good gameplay experience for a reasonable price. Players' experiences with that kind of make skill injectors a long-term no-no: this game tries to sell you power, and the rest of the market has done a good job conditioning content to STAY AWAY FROM THAT because it's not fun if you can't buy the power.

A signature :o
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-12-03 00:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Lunavera Poxicon wrote:
You have a really great game, but the way I see it, for me, I already spent 4-5 months as a subscriber here years ago and eventually it wasn't worth the monthly cost. Putting limitations on the game as heavy as you did ensures players like me won't be here long.


With respect, if you don't plan to subscribe at any point who cares if you stay around? You're providing nothing yet loudly complaining your great contribution to the game isn't being rewarded enough..

Content. An MMO without players in it isn't much of an MMO, especially not one founded on player interaction like this one.

As for F2P, there are some games where they won't sell you power, instead selling shiny things exclusively. The ones which will charge an arm and a leg in real money for power have serious player retention issues, made a lot more serious by the fact that they won't sell a good gameplay experience for a reasonable price. Players' experiences with that kind of make skill injectors a long-term no-no: this game tries to sell you power, and the rest of the market has done a good job conditioning content to STAY AWAY FROM THAT because it's not fun if you can't buy the power.


I lost a curse to two T1 cruisers a few days ago that alpha's are more than capable of flying.

Don't tell me alphas can't find power. It's bull.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lunavera Poxicon
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#58 - 2016-12-03 00:12:47 UTC
Debating opinions is probably the least interesting thing I can think of doing with my time. They are opinions. I have mine, you have yours. You feel this game is worth subbing for, I do not. You feel the restrictions are great for alpha, I do not.

I am not really concerned with your opinion. I was simply sharing mine on the off chance that if in a few months EVE takes a look at their active players and wonders why their F2P model didn't quite pull in the number of players they were hoping they may have opinions of F2P players to read through. If this model works well and I am on a minority of F2P players that feels the restrictions are too heavy, well it doesn't matter. Whether I play the game or not doesn't really change anyone's universe and I am fine with that.

Relax. It was an opinion about a video game.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#59 - 2016-12-03 00:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Lunavera Poxicon wrote:


Relax. It was an opinion about a video game.


Yeah sure.

It's also a discussion forum, so it's kind of expected that posting here is going to come with other people also discussing their opinions.

Otherwise, you may as well just submit a support ticket with your view.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-12-03 00:38:44 UTC
Just what the hell did you expect for heavens sake? Shut up, pay up or quit playing. So many people in life expect the best for nothing. No appreciation of the work CCP puts into this game. Be thankful you can get a free account at all...