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Death By A Million Cuts
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Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#141 - 2016-12-01 04:16:38 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
And now I find it worrisome that you got upset over my comparison, but you seemes to be ok with your "steady source of light" to die a little because you feel you worth it.


Mr. Vellum, you're being disingenuous and very, VERY rude.

The Praefecta keeps her own counsel on these things, as is right and proper, and some strolling citizen claiming that she's considered improperly, and died a little? I can't even imagine the presumption. You do her a disservice, and likewise all Amarr with the good fortune to touch the hearts of those not of the Faith. We ought all be fortunate enough to do such a thing.

And we ought all pay attention when one not of the Faith speaks of their faith. Aria's Totality isn't so different from the God one can know in everything, and Aria's graciousness in outlining such a thing for someone who doesn't know it--why, that might be a lesson, surely. Who can say that she's not more Reclaimed than she thinks? None of us. Not you.

Reclaim yourself, Mr. Vellum, and act more suitably.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#142 - 2016-12-01 07:42:18 UTC
Are you guys really getting upset over an Amarrian ineptly using guilt trips for an attempted conversion rather than just the usual violent enslavement, vitoxin, TCMCs or other forced means that has been the norm over millennia? There's a dissonance on display here that'd be immensely funny if it wasn't so tragically common among those too far separated from the realities of baseliners across New Eden.

Oh, I forgot. If it doesn't affect eggers it's just not important to any of you, is it?
Jev North
Doomheim
#143 - 2016-12-01 10:22:05 UTC
Aw, rats. Fun's over, people, one of the great humanitarians of the Coreli Corporation has pointed out we are being hyprocritical.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#144 - 2016-12-01 11:04:34 UTC
Should indeed demonstrate just how egregious it has to be when that happens, huh Jev?
Jev North
Doomheim
#145 - 2016-12-01 11:30:41 UTC
I dunno, you've never needed a lot of prompting to lie or be hypocritical in the past.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#146 - 2016-12-01 11:51:38 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
If I'm talking complete nonsense then why it upsets you.

I was just asking questions for the most part based on your answers, I didn't use such terms as "to attach", "bind to" or "to sell... so cheaply", playfully and proudly announce that you are "stubborn and a long-term project that way" you said all of this not me. I did compare your actions with a burden that is true, not you but your actions based on your chosen wording.

And now I find it worrisome that you got upset over my comparison, but you seemes to be ok with your "steady source of light" to die a little because you feel you worth it.

Sir, are you aware that, in effect if not intentionally, you are trying to guilt trip me into changing my religion?

Absolutly not, not your religion perhaps your attitude to some extent tho. Plus how can I "guilt" anyone in to anything if as you said I'm not in a position to know what I'm talking about.
How can you feel guilt for something you are not guilty of?
Loai Qerl wrote:
Mr. Vellum, you're being disingenuous and very, VERY rude.

The Praefecta keeps her own counsel on these things, as is right and proper, and some strolling citizen claiming that she's considered improperly, and died a little? I can't even imagine the presumption. You do her a disservice, and likewise all Amarr with the good fortune to touch the hearts of those not of the Faith. We ought all be fortunate enough to do such a thing.

And we ought all pay attention when one not of the Faith speaks of their faith. Aria's Totality isn't so different from the God one can know in everything, and Aria's graciousness in outlining such a thing for someone who doesn't know it--why, that might be a lesson, surely. Who can say that she's not more Reclaimed than she thinks? None of us. Not you.

Reclaim yourself, Mr. Vellum, and act more suitably.

How is it rude?

We are just having a conversation it is not angry one or filled with profanities, it might be a touchy-feely one if what I'm saying is true and if what I'm saying is completely false then it is just words to the wind that can be disregarded and certainly shouldn't make anyone upset.

Sorry, but I don't see anything said so far as rude.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#147 - 2016-12-01 11:55:55 UTC
Jev North wrote:
I dunno, you've never needed a lot of prompting to lie or be hypocritical in the past.


Good luck finding even one example of that. I have been wrong many times in my life, but the lies ended when the Empire no longer had sway over me.
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#148 - 2016-12-01 13:13:22 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

How is it rude?

We are just having a conversation it is not angry one or filled with profanities, it might be a touchy-feely one if what I'm saying is true and if what I'm saying is completely false then it is just words to the wind that can be disregarded and certainly shouldn't make anyone upset.

Sorry, but I don't see anything said so far as rude.


I told you exactly why it was rude. Specifically. You are saying that you don't think those things are rude, and that the only rude things are anger and cursing. That is incorrect.

Stop mushing and prodding and being a self-righteous little pest.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#149 - 2016-12-01 15:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashlar Vellum
Loai Qerl wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

How is it rude?

We are just having a conversation it is not angry one or filled with profanities, it might be a touchy-feely one if what I'm saying is true and if what I'm saying is completely false then it is just words to the wind that can be disregarded and certainly shouldn't make anyone upset.

Sorry, but I don't see anything said so far as rude.


I told you exactly why it was rude. Specifically. You are saying that you don't think those things are rude, and that the only rude things are anger and cursing. That is incorrect.

Stop mushing and prodding and being a self-righteous little pest.

Ok, so you are saying if someone has his or her own counsel on things, as is right and proper, it would be rude to have a conversation about such things? Now, about your previous post can you point me where I specifically said anything of a the sort that Praefecta's counsel or actions are improper.
And final thing I take it by your current post you are showing me how converse politely, teaching me by your own example and all that right?

PS.
Actually, wait a minute am I wrong or you were in KFIE?
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#150 - 2016-12-01 16:26:57 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Actually, wait a minute am I wrong or you were in KFIE?

She was, for, I believe, literally a minute, Mr. Vellum, the result of a "new pilot" mistake. This comes up from time to time.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#151 - 2016-12-01 17:01:12 UTC
Absolutely, mistakes do happen.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2016-12-01 17:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Thank you, sir.

Now-- you don't seem to understand why this is a problem, so let's break it down.

What is true if I believe you?

Well-- if what you say is true, the Praefecta's been lying to me-- treating me as though I were a useful person so that she can try to save my soul.

If what you say is true, my presence is in fact harming her-- the opposite of my purpose here: loyalty unto death (or one month's written notice). I'm supposed to literally give my life for her if need be, and you're saying the thing threatening her, is me. That's a horrifying idea. It hurts even to think about.

Neither of those, though, tends to make me even a little bit able to believe in a god I don't believe in. If anything, it would crack my self-confidence and -worth. I am, or have a capacity to be, a little dark; I'm aware of that. It's a useful capacity. The Praefecta isn't a naive person, but she doesn't normally think in very ruthless ways. I can think in ways she never would. If I'm hurting the Praefecta by being near her, though....

If that were true, I should resign. Maybe I'd return to traveling or doing mercenary work. Or maybe I'd conclude that if I can harm someone as strong as the Praefecta, there's no positive use left for me in this world-- that I really am a burden. If I decided that were so, the proper approach is to end myself. The Praefecta would presumably try to stop me, but, in this scenario, she's been deceiving me to keep me around, continuing to harm her. So, there's no way I should listen.

This is a scenario out of a nightmare, sir. It presses on my fears and doubts. It doesn't have to be remotely true to be upsetting.

And there's no way me believing you ends in me converting to your faith. I'd literally kill myself first-- not because I don't want to be Amarr, but because I don't believe. ... and I won't lie to you all just to make things a little easier.

If I'm someone who is hurting the people I care about most because I don't believe, that doesn't mean I will be able to just change what I believe. But, to me, it does mean I'm a terrible, harmful person who should disappear.

That is what you're saying to me, sir.

It's a little upsetting.
Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2016-12-01 18:05:15 UTC
Pilot Jenneth,


We got a saying, back on the homeworld, "There are only two mistakes on the road towards to the truth: not starting and not going far enough."



“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#154 - 2016-12-01 18:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Rook Moray wrote:
Pilot Jenneth,


We got a saying, back on the homeworld, "There are only two mistakes on the road towards to the truth: not starting and not going far enough."

I ...

... have no idea what you mean by that, Mr. Moray.

Edit:

Actually I have several and they're a sort of vague haze ranging from eye-rolling to really unpleasant. Would you mind explaining a little?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2016-12-01 18:28:01 UTC
Jev North wrote:
I dunno, you've never needed a lot of prompting to lie or be hypocritical in the past.

I would hasten to point out that you worked for Ghost Festival (an avowed Angel loyalist group) on one occasion and Anshar Incorporated (a corporation that repeatedly shilled for Serpentis) on two occasions.

It's also pertinent to note that just because someone's a hypocrite it doesn't neccessarily mean they're wrong. Often, the fact that a hypocrite is telling the truth is what makes the hypocricy so infuriating.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2016-12-01 18:28:54 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Rook Moray wrote:
Pilot Jenneth,


We got a saying, back on the homeworld, "There are only two mistakes on the road towards to the truth: not starting and not going far enough."

I ...

... have no idea what you mean by that, Mr. Moray.

Edit:

Actually I have several and they're a sort of vague haze ranging from eye-rolling to really unpleasant. Would you mind explaining a little?




No sweat chummer,

Been reading your posts a bit. You started on the road, right? So point for you. Seems from here like your pace is slowing. Where is your truth leading you?

“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.
Lucien Marbot
#157 - 2016-12-01 18:40:02 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:



Well-- if what you say is true, the Praefecta's been lying to me-- treating me as though I were a useful person so that she can try to save my soul.


Oh these schoolgirl type affairs always end so messy.


If what you say is true, my presence is in fact harming her-- the opposite of my purpose here: loyalty unto death (or one month's written notice). I'm supposed to literally give my life for her if need be, and you're saying the thing threatening her, is me. That's a horrifying idea. It hurts even to think about.


Or maybe I'd conclude that if I can harm someone as strong as the Praefecta, there's no positive use left for me in this world-- that I really am a burden. If I decided that were so, the proper approach is to end myself.

The high drama is not called for, it's called a break up, divorce, or dumping the person. You think the object of your devotion is perfect, well she is no more perfect than you are sweetie, WTFU.


If I'm someone who is hurting the people I care about most because I don't believe, that doesn't mean I will be able to just change what I believe. But, to me, it does mean I'm a terrible, harmful person who should disappear.

That is what you're saying to me, sir.

It's a little upsetting.
In the totality of your universe of whorls and eddies isn't that exactly your attitude towards the trillions of enslaved people? By ignoring their plight and devoting yourself to their tormentors you are just as vicious as the horrible Amarr religious maniac freaks whose God you don't believe in but admire so much.

Let's be frank and discuss this case in less magical sounding phrases. You are a simple little whorl that fell in love with an eddy and now you try and define the universe through the distorted lens of your misplaced deviant affection that is more than likely not reciprocated because you are just an employee/ servant/ pod pilot tool whose starry eyed lust has made herself a public joke.

Sure you imagine yourself a bird of prey perched proudly on her wrist awaiting your next taste of bloody meat fed to you by your master/mistress but the rest of us see you more like the shriveled bat hanging upside down in her dusty attic that feeds off insects while flying blindly through the night.

It is no surprise your sect is small, not many people are that "totally" stupid in the complete "Totality" of human existence.

Death is nothing more then the searing pain of rebirth.
Gunhilda Vuld
Doomheim
#158 - 2016-12-01 18:44:57 UTC
You seem to have a creeper's beef with this pilot. She swipe left on you or something?
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#159 - 2016-12-01 18:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Rook Moray wrote:
No sweat chummer,

Been reading your posts a bit. You started on the road, right? So point for you. Seems from here like your pace is slowing. Where is your truth leading you?

Oh.

....

Yeah. That's also something that comes up from time to time.

So-- seeing the world with clear eyes was a neat idea. I know I disappointed a lot of people by not taking it farther. Sometimes I think maybe one of them was the Praefecta herself, actually.

Only, so, setting out on something like that was only possible because I didn't really have any deep roots or strong connections. Being able to see clearly is partly a function of not having a set perspective, which requires avoiding worldly attachments.

But, close friends, familiar places, family, a home ... it turns out worldly attachments are pretty attractive. Even if they hurt sometimes.

I'm basically a ridiculously well-educated not-quite two-year-old, Mr. Moray. I know a lot, and my brain functions as an adult's (my judgment centers are fully developed, thank you), but I don't have the, I guess, hardening that comes from experience. Being a wanderer was pretty lonely. That and other things led pretty quickly to me ... getting tangled up in stuff.

Also, somewhere along the line I decided I needed to face the thing that kind of ate my predecessor. Turned out it was still hungry. I didn't even notice I was injured until I tried visiting the Federation.

That really hurt.

I haven't gotten any less curious or interested in new places, but, more and more I'm a part of this world instead of just a little shadow wandering through, poking my nose in here or there. I have a place here, a role to play. A home.

In some ways, I'm a darker person than I was at the start. More wounded at spirit. On the other hand, I kind of know who I am better than I did. I didn't have a lot of sense of self, when I began. It's definitely slowed my efforts to see the rest of the world, but ...

... I'm not sure that's a bad thing, on balance.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#160 - 2016-12-01 19:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Gunhilda Vuld wrote:
You seem to have a creeper's beef with this pilot. She swipe left on you or something?

He's not the first. I didn't sign on for an extended stay in the Empire because it was going to make me popular.

(I was in love, though. Just, not with the Praefecta. I might still be. It's been a while since I got to explore those feelings much.)