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Free, yeah right
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2016-12-01 12:17:20 UTC
Because they want to have exactly the same experience and exactly the same ships of paying players.

Because they will always complain about it, and they think they deserve to have exactly the same with the only difference of some "cosmetic tools".

No, it will not happen.

Alphas will not have access to all ships in a dark military color while Omegas yellow with red strips...
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2016-12-01 12:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
this version of eve is not the definition of a free to play game... as simply as that ;)


It's not that simple at all. You actually have access to a full game for free. All the gameplay that is available in EVE is available for free. The fact you can't do things as effectively as people who pay is meaningless. The fact you can do them at all, for free, is what matters. You are getting a whole lot of game for a whole lot of nothing. That is the very definition of free to play. Just because you expect everyone to do it the same way as your favourite free to play game doesn't mean they're not free if they don't do it that way.




the definition of a free to play game means that ALL the content of the quoted game is FREELY available for ALL the players... Is it the case for eve? ... i guess not!
simple ^^


That's one model of free to play, yes. It's not the only model. The DEFINITION of free to play means one can play a game for free. There are a variety of models, however, and EVE's is a new one that is unique to EVE due to EVE's unique single-sharded player-driven nature. The devs have been working on this for years (according to their devblog) trying to figure out the best way of implementing it without breaking the game. I think they found a nice balance.

SWTOR is another F2P game that doesn't work by the model you suggested. You can't go higher than level 50, you can't do PVP, flashpoints, Ops, or a whole bunch of other stuff, unless you pay. SWTOR's model works for it, EVE's model works for EVE. If you're new to EVE, you won't understand right away why this was probably the best way to do it, but the only reason EVE didn't lose more people that had been here for many many years when it went F2P was because some of use wanted to see for ourselves if CCP could pull it off.

I, personally, had a feeling that we'd see our share of entitled brats within the first few weeks. I suspect many others did too. I'm disappointed that I wasn't left disappointed, if you catch my meaning, but nothing that's been posted by said brats on this thread has not already been predicted, including the all-encompassing, "but this isn't really F2P because this other game does it this way". EVE isn't any other game, it is EVE. There is quite literally nothing else like EVE out there. You are experiencing something incredibly unique, for free, and taking it for granted while stomping your feet and demanding more without having to cough up in return. You know the developers have families to feed, right?

So go **** yourself.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#103 - 2016-12-01 12:26:27 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Is there an other FTP game you can stay fully subbed for less than 50 hours grind per month? None I can think of.


WTF - 230kk per hour? good luck have fun
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2016-12-01 12:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
this version of eve is not the definition of a free to play game... as simply as that ;)


It's not that simple at all. You actually have access to a full game for free. All the gameplay that is available in EVE is available for free. The fact you can't do things as effectively as people who pay is meaningless. The fact you can do them at all, for free, is what matters. You are getting a whole lot of game for a whole lot of nothing. That is the very definition of free to play. Just because you expect everyone to do it the same way as your favourite free to play game doesn't mean they're not free if they don't do it that way.




the definition of a free to play game means that ALL the content of the quoted game is FREELY available for ALL the players... Is it the case for eve? ... i guess not!
simple ^^


That's one model of free to play, yes. It's not the only model. The DEFINITION of free to play means one can play a game for free. There are a variety of models, however, and EVE's is a new one that is unique to EVE due to EVE's unique single-sharded player-driven nature. The devs have been working on this for years (according to their devblog) trying to figure out the best way of implementing it without breaking the game. I think they found a nice balance.

SWTOR is another F2P game that doesn't work by the model you suggested. You can't go higher than level 50, you can't do PVP, flashpoints, Ops, or a whole bunch of other stuff, unless you pay. SWTOR's model works for it, EVE's model works for EVE. If you're new to EVE, you won't understand right away why this was probably the best way to do it, but the only reason EVE didn't lose more people that had been here for many many years when it went F2P was because some of use wanted to see for ourselves if CCP could pull it off.

I, personally, had a feeling that we'd see our share of entitled brats within the first few weeks. I suspect many others did too. I'm disappointed that I wasn't left disappointed, if you catch my meaning, but nothing that's been posted by said brats on this thread has not already been predicted, including the all-encompassing, "but this isn't really F2P because this other game does it this way". EVE isn't any other game, it is EVE. There is quite literally nothing else like EVE out there. You are experiencing something incredibly unique, for free, and taking it for granted.

So go **** yourself.



there is only one definition of a F2P label my friend. A free alpha doesn't mean a free game ! Get along with it !
I'm a new player with a main from 2003 and and alts from 2007 and 2011... If i were new to the game, i wouldn't even care...
I don't know why you try to justifie the fact that eve is F2P when it isn't... And as you can see, eve ascencion was announced like a F2P but is no longer called F2P when you check the official website (it's called "play for free", not F2P)... Because the game content access doesn't respect the chart of a F2P label...

Now, i'll go f**** ... But not myself, i'd like you to bend over ;)

Fly safe and smarter !
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2016-12-01 12:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
there is only one definition of a F2P label my friend.


Yes, I know. I gave it to you. It means you can play for free. Free to play has a variety of models, one of which you think is the only model. You are wrong. You are talking about the 'freemium' model. It is not the only one out there. EVE is more like a shareware model of free to play, old school but it works, and is still valid, and is still free to play.

Again, these devs have families to feed, bills to pay, and you want to sit there and whine that the huge variety of what CCP has given you for free is too expensive for you? I don't think I've ever been more disgusted in my life by another human entity.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#106 - 2016-12-01 12:50:15 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
this version of eve is not the definition of a free to play game... as simply as that ;)


It's not that simple at all. You actually have access to a full game for free. All the gameplay that is available in EVE is available for free. The fact you can't do things as effectively as people who pay is meaningless. The fact you can do them at all, for free, is what matters. You are getting a whole lot of game for a whole lot of nothing. That is the very definition of free to play. Just because you expect everyone to do it the same way as your favourite free to play game doesn't mean they're not free if they don't do it that way.



This state is incorrect;
As Alphas you cant use "Jump ships";
U can't use even a single PI stuff;

So...incorrect
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#107 - 2016-12-01 12:53:47 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:



there is only one definition of a F2P label my friend. /quote]

Yes, I know. I gave it to you. It means you can play for free. Free to play has a variety of models, one of which you think is the only model. You are wrong. You are talking about the 'freemium' model. It is not the only one out there. EVE is more like a shareware model of free to play, old school but it works, and is still valid, and is still free to play.

Again, these devs have families to feed, bills to pay, and you want to sit there and whine that the huge variety of what CCP has given you for free is too expensive for you? I don't think I've ever been more disgusted in my life by another human entity.


Well... i think disccusion is about that CCP announce the Eve is going to be "Free to play" - which is wrong state;
It is not free;

It's unlimited trial - that they should call it;

No more - no less
Hrist Harkonnen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2016-12-01 12:53:59 UTC
There is only one F2P model i dont consider bad, its TERA. The problem is that the game sucks so its the same as nothing.

Try EVE Online for FREE with 250.000 extra skill points here!
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2016-12-01 12:58:04 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:



there is only one definition of a F2P label my friend. /quote]

Yes, I know. I gave it to you. It means you can play for free. Free to play has a variety of models, one of which you think is the only model. You are wrong. You are talking about the 'freemium' model. It is not the only one out there. EVE is more like a shareware model of free to play, old school but it works, and is still valid, and is still free to play.

Again, these devs have families to feed, bills to pay, and you want to sit there and whine that the huge variety of what CCP has given you for free is too expensive for you? I don't think I've ever been more disgusted in my life by another human entity.


Well... i think disccusion is about that CCP announce the Eve is going to be "Free to play" - which is wrong state;
It is not free;

It's unlimited trial - that they should call it;

No more - no less


Whether you call it an unlimited trial or free to play, it doesn't matter. Both are correct and neither are mutually exclusive. You're arguing semantics for the sake of "calling out" CCP. It's absolutely ridiculous. If you really feel the need to be outraged about something, go get outraged about something that matters, like weed not being legal in Australia yet.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2016-12-01 13:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
this version of eve is not the definition of a free to play game... as simply as that ;)


It's not that simple at all. You actually have access to a full game for free. All the gameplay that is available in EVE is available for free. The fact you can't do things as effectively as people who pay is meaningless. The fact you can do them at all, for free, is what matters. You are getting a whole lot of game for a whole lot of nothing. That is the very definition of free to play. Just because you expect everyone to do it the same way as your favourite free to play game doesn't mean they're not free if they don't do it that way.



This state is incorrect;
As Alphas you cant use "Jump ships";
U can't use even a single PI stuff;

So...incorrect


You're so concerned with what you can't do for free that you've completely ignored what you can do in the game for free, and that blows me away. You're thinking about this all wrong. The fact that CCP have given you ANYTHING for free is not just mindblowingly generous, but also a whole helluva lot more than what you've ******* paid for. So stop being a greedy little schlub, and subscribe.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2016-12-01 17:52:05 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Yes, I know. I gave it to you. It means you can play for free. Free to play has a variety of models, one of which you think is the only model. You are wrong. You are talking about the 'freemium' model. It is not the only one out there. EVE is more like a shareware model of free to play, old school but it works, and is still valid, and is still free to play.

Again, these devs have families to feed, bills to pay, and you want to sit there and whine that the huge variety of what CCP has given you for free is too expensive for you? I don't think I've ever been more disgusted in my life by another human entity.



When did i complained about the price? i paid eve from my own pocket during all these years, i gave them thousands of dollars, why would i complain about some of the content being free? do you even read my post before answering?
I complained about the "false advertising" arround eve, and, if you read my other posts, about the decreasing quality of the gameplay evolution... You should disguss yourself more than i do... I won't even answer to your stupidity anymore !
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2016-12-01 17:53:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:



there is only one definition of a F2P label my friend. /quote]

Yes, I know. I gave it to you. It means you can play for free. Free to play has a variety of models, one of which you think is the only model. You are wrong. You are talking about the 'freemium' model. It is not the only one out there. EVE is more like a shareware model of free to play, old school but it works, and is still valid, and is still free to play.

Again, these devs have families to feed, bills to pay, and you want to sit there and whine that the huge variety of what CCP has given you for free is too expensive for you? I don't think I've ever been more disgusted in my life by another human entity.


Well... i think disccusion is about that CCP announce the Eve is going to be "Free to play" - which is wrong state;
It is not free;

It's unlimited trial - that they should call it;

No more - no less



thank you!!! At least 1 people who understood my point of view (i guess you got a brain ;) )
Fly safe... on flight simulator please !
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2016-12-01 17:59:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


You're so concerned with what you can't do for free that you've completely ignored what you can do in the game for free, and that blows me away. You're thinking about this all wrong. The fact that CCP have given you ANYTHING for free is not just mindblowingly generous, but also a whole helluva lot more than what you've ******* paid for. So stop being a greedy little schlub, and subscribe.



I won't subscribe, not because i'm unhappy about the free content, but because eve isn't eve anymore... PvP is dead 0.0 is empty (compared to 4/5 years ago) and mechanics don't work anymore... But we're changing the subject of this topic... Just because you can't understand what i'm saying so... HF mate !
Serafiel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2016-12-01 18:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Serafiel
Naye Nathaniel wrote:

1st of all - in europe it's 15euro;
Whole europe have to pay in euro even if the currency is 4.2:1 (4.2 of mother currency for 1 euro);

(...cut the rant)



Ill be very honest. If you are so poor that you cant pay for a computer game access, you REALLY REALLY REALLY should be doing something else with your time, instead of playing computer games and bitching that they are not free.

Like, getting RL skills that pay the RL bills. Or something.

edit: for clarification, I, myself, am from eastern europe. And not even from Euro zone. And no, 15 euros is not a barrier, far from it.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#115 - 2016-12-01 22:49:40 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
this version of eve is not the definition of a free to play game... as simply as that ;)


It's not that simple at all. You actually have access to a full game for free. All the gameplay that is available in EVE is available for free. The fact you can't do things as effectively as people who pay is meaningless. The fact you can do them at all, for free, is what matters. You are getting a whole lot of game for a whole lot of nothing. That is the very definition of free to play. Just because you expect everyone to do it the same way as your favourite free to play game doesn't mean they're not free if they don't do it that way.



This state is incorrect;
As Alphas you cant use "Jump ships";
U can't use even a single PI stuff;

So...incorrect


You're so concerned with what you can't do for free that you've completely ignored what you can do in the game for free, and that blows me away. You're thinking about this all wrong. The fact that CCP have given you ANYTHING for free is not just mindblowingly generous, but also a whole helluva lot more than what you've ******* paid for. So stop being a greedy little schlub, and subscribe.


Are u stupid or just trolling?
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#116 - 2016-12-01 22:51:07 UTC
Serafiel wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:

1st of all - in europe it's 15euro;
Whole europe have to pay in euro even if the currency is 4.2:1 (4.2 of mother currency for 1 euro);

(...cut the rant)



Ill be very honest. If you are so poor that you cant pay for a computer game access, you REALLY REALLY REALLY should be doing something else with your time, instead of playing computer games and bitching that they are not free.

Like, getting RL skills that pay the RL bills. Or something.

edit: for clarification, I, myself, am from eastern europe. And not even from Euro zone. And no, 15 euros is not a barrier, far from it.


Russians and Fishes dont have a voice about someones wallet and what they do with theirs money.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#117 - 2016-12-02 01:35:28 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zi DoLphE Dutuitisme wrote:
this version of eve is not the definition of a free to play game... as simply as that ;)


It's not that simple at all. You actually have access to a full game for free. All the gameplay that is available in EVE is available for free. The fact you can't do things as effectively as people who pay is meaningless. The fact you can do them at all, for free, is what matters. You are getting a whole lot of game for a whole lot of nothing. That is the very definition of free to play. Just because you expect everyone to do it the same way as your favourite free to play game doesn't mean they're not free if they don't do it that way.




This actually true. Sure alpha accounts cannot fly certain things, like T2/T3 fits/ahipa for example, but there are T1 counterparts that function. In terms of 'content' you are not really restricted. You can still be in fleet fights, you are not barred from scanning and entering WH, null gates do not stop you from jumping in, NPC stations let you dock wherever you are, etc. While ships and fit choices may be limited, the space itself is totally unlimited, for free!

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#118 - 2016-12-02 01:48:15 UTC
Zi Dolphne, I think some things you point out can be valid discussion points regarding whether its good game design or not, but I think that is a separate game balance discussion and not tied to Alpha accounts.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Zachri
The Darwin Foundation
#119 - 2016-12-02 03:05:15 UTC
Annette Durado wrote:
I'm a former player that has come back because the game is 'free'. I didn't really want to pay as Eve is just one of many games I am interested in (others are single player, one off cost and some MMOs that I bought to play).

So I log into the 'free' Eve and nothing is free. Any skill I need to develop requires a paid sub as I've got the basic ones already. The ships I already own, I can't fly because I need a sub.

So in effect, Eve isn't free to play, it's free to try and when you actually get a few skills, you cannot progress or do anything meaningful until you sub. Why not just extend the trail period for like, a month or two?


It's still a cold and dark place, so desillusion is kinda fitting, no? Big smile

F2p is marketing. Nobody should ever buy marketing. It's also a matter of perception, and that always guarantees perception problems.

CCP made available a quite wide and deep means of discovering the nature and features of EVE, and while that is indeed free to acces and play, we should remember that it remains a subscription game (for a stupid amount of good reasons, not just considering CCP's learning curves, but just because of the foundation principles that make the very thing work in the first place).

As a returning player Alpha status is a very reasonable way to get back in with things. There's a bit of a wall though, which you already ran into: as a returning player you arrive with expectations based on experiences. Finding limitations - which to someone already acquintend with the game can come very quickly, and be very harsh - is never fun. There's room for CCP to improve in this regard. Personally I think they might reconsider the old recall program, but with a modified Alpha character / account - soft landings always beat the ones were people go splat. So to speak.

Keep in mind, a lot of things have changed. It may very well be an idea to leave the old established character for a bit, and rediscover life as an Alpha. It comes down to finding the fun again.

Picture the "free" as something between an open ended trial, an open road of discovery, and an ongoing process of exposure to seduction around every corner. It's the best version of a choice between the lesser of evils.

And EVE, did - and does - need new blood. It wasn't just features and mechanisms that got stale, it was a declining population.

Sure, an Alpha has limits. But it's got quite surprising capabilities, and sure, I wish they had some half-plex thing to make an account Omega for a week or weekend in tune with real life's routines, but things are as they are. If you expected a full game where nothing costs, it would be an EVE were you'd have to pay to win.

I think it's fair to say that would kill things off quite effectively.
Ayx Shewma
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2016-12-02 03:39:54 UTC
Annette Durado wrote:
Ha, good to see the fanboy toxic community hasn't changed. You really cannot say anything negative about the game without people scrambling out of the woodwork in defence of everything. Was to be expected - it's why people don't stick around.

In other walks of life, people can make a comment without being attacked right away, but never in Eve.


Spotted the Bernie supporter.