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Bounty System
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Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1 - 2016-12-01 06:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Satchel Darkmatter
I think most people would agree that the bounty system is a broken mess, and while I don't think I have the silver bullet to put it out of its misery I do think I have a suggestion I'v not seen that may make the system more rewarding and more balanced.

So.. What about this...

Note the following would require a wipe of current bounties, if possible refunding those who placed bounties or just voiding it I don't care lol.

The Basic System The Bounty System would mimic the Faction Warefare system, Players that join the Bounty Hunter's Collective would be able to engage any player with a Bounty anywhere in space regardless of faction or security level, Bounty Hunters would essentially become High Sec/Low Sec/Null Police able to pounce on and attack criminal players at will without Concord getting involved, once a player has been killed the Bounty Hunter should receive the Bounty placed on them, and the criminal would lose their bounty.

The Bounty Brackets
The Bounty System would be split accross space based on Bounty Amount and is directly linked to an area of space, so some one with a bounty of 1 Million will fit into 0.6 and bellow space. as per bellow.

System Security - Amount Needed to prevent Concord/Gateguns etc.
Quote:

  • 0.0 - Any Bounty
  • 0.1 - .01 isk , 100,000 isk
  • 0.2 - 100,000 isk , 200,000 isk
  • 0.3 - 200,000 isk , 300,000 isk
  • 0.4 - 300,000 isk , 500,000 isk
  • 0.5 - 500,000 isk , 1,000,000 isk
  • 0.6 - 1,000,000 isk 5,000,000 isk
  • 0.7 - 5,000,000 isk 10,000,000 isk
  • 0.8 - 10,000,000 isk 20,000,000 isk
  • 0.9 - 20,000,000 isk 30,000,000 isk
  • 1.0 - 30,000,000 isk 60,000,000 Isk


Quote:
Alpha Rules

  1. If an Alpha collects a bounty on a player who's got more than 100k on them, the 100k would be deducted and awarded to the Bounty Hunter and the remaining Bounty would remain on the criminal, if more than one Alpha takes part then each would get their share and any bounty remaining would remain on the criminal until its all collected.



Quote:
The Rules

  1. Players placing a Bounty on some one would be able to do so at any time but the bounty would only become Active after 24 hours preventing bounties being placed and the player instantly being killed.

  2. A Bounty cannot be collected by anyone linked (copr/alliance/standings etc) to the criminal's account, I'm sure ccp can see Hay player 1 has the same IP as player 2 so NOPE, no bounty for you, or Player 1's account is linked to player 2's so Nope no bounty for you, this will not stop players asking a third party bounty hunter to kill them and split the profits should be a way to discourage it tho.

  3. Any player can only Place 1 bounty at a time, and can only place more when his bounty has been collected. prevents bounty spamming on haulers.

  4. Bounty Hunters would not be able to place their own Bounties on people, preventing them from targeting people and alpha clones would only be able to place 100,000 isk bounties to prevent abuse.

  5. A Player with a Bounty who kills a Bounty Hunter will have his Bounty reduced by the amount lost by the Bounty Hunter, this will enable people with a bounty on their head to fight back win and clear their own bounty without taking a loss.

  6. Bounty Payout's should match up with estimated player loss, like the current bounty system to prevent players from being killed in something small to collect a large bounty, the player or criminal being killed would need to loss in estimated value enough to allow the bounty to be paid, killing a smaller low cost ship will reward a fraction of the payout and leave the criminal will the higher bounty, result in a longer period spent under attack by other bounty hunters.

  7. The Max payout for a single kill would be 60 Million Isk, in situations where a player has more than 60 Million on their heads, the 60 million would be deducted and the remainder would be left on the criminal to be collected on another death.

  8. A player can have any number of bounties placed on them, the more bounties they have on them the higher the chance the Hunters will go after them.

  9. Bounties can only be placed on players that have a low or Negative Security Standing bellow .5? or that have engaged you and killed you.

  10. Bounty Payout should require double the value or an increased value so that having an alt kill your own ship to clear a bounty will still result in a loss of isk, Player A places a 500k bounty on Player B, Player B drops 500k bounty only when hes been killed and his estimated value in loss is equal to 500k+modifier value, could be double or an extra 30% value could be tuned depending on the initial bounty, should prevent and make it stupid to blow up your own stuff.




With these change being a bounty hunter would become an actual carer opportunity , an actual path a player could follow and make isk from as well as getting loads of cool fights.

I think its time we solve this and get rid of this stupid system we have in place at the moment, players with billions in isk worth of bounties on characters they simply never undock, players with billions in bounties who don't even think about it, its nothing at all total wasted mechanic and one that needs to be changed and looked at, the above idea is in no way perfect but I think it deals with the core issues of the mechanic, players wont be able to gank their friends to collect on a bounty unless they also leave corp and join the bounty hunter collective.

[edit - Cleaned up the post should be easier to read now.]
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-12-01 07:12:22 UTC
So putting a bounty on my head is literally just giving me the isk, as all I would need is a bounty hunting alt to kill me and claim it all.

Also, anyone with 60mil in their pocket and a bounty hunting alt can freely engage any target anywhere in highsec if they can catch them a day in advance. So sitting on the jita undock and bountying every single freighter that undocks becomes the best way to gank.


I'm not convinced you thought this through, friend.
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#3 - 2016-12-01 07:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Satchel Darkmatter
Danika Princip wrote:
So putting a bounty on my head is literally just giving me the isk, as all I would need is a bounty hunting alt to kill me and claim it all.


First of all, I would say you cant bounty yourself, secondly the game allows alts so there is very little that can be done to block that, hence the alpha rules I set out, but if your willing to sub an account put it into the Bounty Hunters Corp just so you can kill yourself well rather than pointing it out why not offer a suggestion that prevents or deters it.

Danika Princip wrote:

Also, anyone with 60mil in their pocket and a bounty hunting alt can freely engage any target anywhere in highsec if they can catch them a day in advance. So sitting on the jita undock and bountying every single freighter that undocks becomes the best way to gank.


Any player you try this with will have 24 hours before the bounty goes live and will then be able to avoid your trap, anyone undocking from a trade hub with a large bounty on them should be doing so expecting to get ganked, thought that would be fairly straight forward and I don't see how you think that could be abused.

Made a few amendments, which will further discourage abuse. I hope. feel free to tear it apart tho we all wont a good robust system, while having alts means no system will be perfect what im shooting for here is a big improvement, not something that's perfect.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2016-12-01 07:23:58 UTC
An awful lot of eve players have more than one account subbed. I, personally have four omega accounts at the moment. Using one of the alts on one of them to claim any bounty placed on any of my other characters would really not be difficult.

The original bounty system also handed the isk to anyone you placed a bounty on who happened t have an alt. That is why it was removed. There is n legitimate use for a bounty system that simply hands the isk to the person you're bountying.

And you seriously don't see how sitting in jita and placing bounty on, say, five hundred freighters could be abused?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2016-12-01 07:27:00 UTC
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:


Any player you try this with will have 24 hours before the bounty goes live and will then be able to avoid your trap, anyone undocking from a trade hub with a large bounty on them should be doing so expecting to get ganked, thought that would be fairly straight forward and I don't see how you think that could be abused.
.

Please work out how long it takes to train a Freighter pilot to V, and include relevant Navigation, Shield, Armour skills to V for tank also.
Answer, A lot longer than 24 hours.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#6 - 2016-12-01 07:29:49 UTC
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
So putting a bounty on my head is literally just giving me the isk, as all I would need is a bounty hunting alt to kill me and claim it all.


First of all, I would say you cant bounty yourself, secondly the game allows alts so there is very little that can be done to block that, hence the alpha rules I set out, but if your willing to sub an account put it into the Bounty Hunters Corp just so you can kill yourself well rather than pointing it out why not offer a suggestion that prevents or deters it.

Danika Princip wrote:

Also, anyone with 60mil in their pocket and a bounty hunting alt can freely engage any target anywhere in highsec if they can catch them a day in advance. So sitting on the jita undock and bountying every single freighter that undocks becomes the best way to gank.


Any player you try this with will have 24 hours before the bounty goes live and will then be able to avoid your trap, anyone undocking from a trade hub with a large bounty on them should be doing so expecting to get ganked, thought that would be fairly straight forward and I don't see how you think that could be abused.

Made a few amendments, which will further discourage abuse. I hope. feel free to tear it apart tho we all wont a good robust system, while having alts means no system will be perfect what im shooting for here is a big improvement, not something that's perfect.



The man's gotcha there, Danika >_>

Not too bad of an idea OP... Nice work. Look on the 2nd page of this forum for my post entitled "Bounty Hunting/Piracy". Check it out, yo.
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#7 - 2016-12-01 07:32:04 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
An awful lot of eve players have more than one account subbed. I, personally have four omega accounts at the moment. Using one of the alts on one of them to claim any bounty placed on any of my other characters would really not be difficult.


I made some changes to further deter this, like checking ip corp/alliance etc before a payout is made and by making sure an equal or equivilant amount is lost in the ship death, so even if your collecting it on your alt your still blowing up something of equal value to try and clear the total bounty, the end result is that killing yourself with your own alt would not gain you anything other than clearing the bounty pool.

Danika Princip wrote:

The original bounty system also handed the isk to anyone you placed a bounty on who happened t have an alt. That is why it was removed. There is n legitimate use for a bounty system that simply hands the isk to the person you're bountying.

And you seriously don't see how sitting in jita and placing bounty on, say, five hundred freighters could be abused?


You do that and those players will have 24 hours to avoid you, your asumption is that your going to place a bounty on a hauler and then just wait 24 hours for it to go active, which gives him 24 hours to move, change ships to something he can fight with and then fight you, he's not gona care if he wins or dies, if you kill him to drops his bounty, if he kills you he gets your loot and makes money.

But I get what your saying, a solution although I don't think it would be needed would be to limit the total number of bounties a player can place, one at a time for example would stop players from bounty spamming, even with their alts they would still not really get to place bounties on 100's of people or at least the number of players with extreme volume of alts is far far fewer and would be less of an issue. I will amend the OP with this change..

Keep your critic's coming.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#8 - 2016-12-01 07:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Conogan Blitzkreig wrote:


The man's gotcha there, Danika >_>

Not too bad of an idea OP... Nice work. Look on the 2nd page of this forum for my post entitled "Bounty Hunting/Piracy". Check it out, yo.

No he doesn't. His answer is basically 'No freighter pilot will be able to play for more than 24 hours till they get their own alt or a friend to clear their bounty for them'
That's a terrible terrible mechanic when the correct answer is to not play.

Professional freighter pilots HAVE to visit the hubs every day they play. Understand the game you play before making suggestions.
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#9 - 2016-12-01 07:35:36 UTC
I don't agree, as I said they would have 24 hours to get safe and then would only need to fly a combat ship into a high traffic area and do some PvP with the bounty hunters to clear his bounty, possibly even making money.

What if a criminal kills a Bounty Hunter then the value in loss for the bounty Hunter is removed from the criminals bounty pool, this would give the hauler an incentive to fight the bounty hunters kill them and clear their own bounty without losing anything.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#10 - 2016-12-01 07:37:12 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
An awful lot of eve players have more than one account subbed. I, personally have four omega accounts at the moment. Using one of the alts on one of them to claim any bounty placed on any of my other characters would really not be difficult.

The original bounty system also handed the isk to anyone you placed a bounty on who happened t have an alt. That is why it was removed. There is n legitimate use for a bounty system that simply hands the isk to the person you're bountying.

And you seriously don't see how sitting in jita and placing bounty on, say, five hundred freighters could be abused?



That's why CCP should work out the code so that the game detects when 2 accounts have the same IRL BILLING name and prevent/block a char from placing bounties on either another char on the same account or a char on a different account
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2016-12-01 07:37:27 UTC
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:
I don't agree, as I said they would have 24 hours to get safe and then would only need to fly a combat ship into a high traffic area and do some PvP with the bounty hunters to clear his bounty, possibly even making money.

What if a criminal kills a Bounty Hunter then the value in loss for the bounty Hunter is removed from the criminals bounty pool, this would give the hauler an incentive to fight the bounty hunters kill them and clear their own bounty without losing anything.


Bounties are not about criminals.
So he's unable to do his chosen profession in EVE and you think that's a GOOD thing?
How about a bounty makes you unable to fly a PVP ship instead and you have to either fly a miner or industrial with no combat drones or guns enabled. That's about the same as you are suggesting here.
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#12 - 2016-12-01 07:42:20 UTC
I say criminal it's just a descriptive word to indicate the guy with the bounty on his head, and does having a bounty now stop players from doing anything, regardless of bounty players in hauler's are always cautious when undocking hence undock bookmarks.

It's funny but a hauler determined to haul could just pay some players with bounties or get some corp mates with bounties to escort them and protect them from the Bounty Hunters, emergent gameplay.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#13 - 2016-12-01 07:50:19 UTC
Check my post out and make a reply, Satchel... You'll like the insights I've shared about this profession.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2016-12-01 07:52:39 UTC
IP checks won't work. (Ask a friend to kill you instead, split the bounty.)

Corp checks won't work (see above, also alts are not always in the same group)

Billing name checks won't work. (Point one. Also, on an account that is always PLEXed, what billing name?)

Value limits just mean I insure an empty hull, kill that and pocket the profit.

A lot of freighter pilots don't HAVE combat skills, or have no interest in that side of the game, and will not be able to fight whatever elite pvp boat with piles of neutral logi the hunter happens to be flying at that particular moment anyway.

One bounty at a time makes the whole system unworkable. What if the person my one bounty is on simply doesn't undock, ever?

And you seriously think escort missions are the answer to all this?
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#15 - 2016-12-01 07:58:44 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
IP checks won't work. (Ask a friend to kill you instead, split the bounty.)

Corp checks won't work (see above, also alts are not always in the same group)

Billing name checks won't work. (Point one. Also, on an account that is always PLEXed, what billing name?)

Value limits just mean I insure an empty hull, kill that and pocket the profit.

A lot of freighter pilots don't HAVE combat skills, or have no interest in that side of the game, and will not be able to fight whatever elite pvp boat with piles of neutral logi the hunter happens to be flying at that particular moment anyway.

One bounty at a time makes the whole system unworkable. What if the person my one bounty is on simply doesn't undock, ever?

And you seriously think escort missions are the answer to all this?



Maybe have the game forbid people from ACCEPTING bounties on players on contact list/same Corp/same alliance OR has good standings with you as well.
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#16 - 2016-12-01 07:59:43 UTC
IP Checks will work, just not 100% of the time, same goes for the other checks, like I said no perfect solutions but every step taken to limit abuse reduces the amount of abuse that's done.

Value, Why not have the game compare the fitted modules and the loot in the cargo as well, no one said it was only counting the cost of the hull, it's easy for them to check the estimated value of all modules and loot the player is holding and use that value, you killing an empty hull would just result in you having to do it a number of times, the end result is the same your still going to lose or blow up an equal amount in value, were talking about a new system here but your thinking about it like the old system.

Lets see whats broken and fix it.

For example you have a valid point on the player that hides, I have a solution which is not perfect but would work. I cant update the OP cos its at its limit so I will post it here.

Players who have placed a Bounty, if the bounty is not collected within a week the player is then given another Bounty to place, so basically placing a Bounty has a 1 week cool down and the cool down is reset if the bounty is collected earlier.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#17 - 2016-12-01 08:33:29 UTC
used too you got all of the bounty for killing someone. This was a great way to line pockets as you can bring a alt in, use a empty clone and boom instant uber paycheck, they changed it now so its not worth killing yourself to get bounty.

Also to allow you to attack someone without concord intervention is a no. Because since the bounty system was changed, before you needed to be between -1 I believe was the highest all the way to -10. Now even at 5.0 sec status I have bounties put on me.

If im allowed to use the new system with out any changes, I could find a target like the freighter bots that ap 24/7, put down 60m and follow it for the path and as soon as it goes active, BOOM not only do I get my isk back, I get a huge km, and I get the piñata.

Also this will give groups like CODE. that have a massive wallet the ability to just hit everything that moves with bounties and wait.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Satchel Darkmatter
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#18 - 2016-12-01 12:09:27 UTC
Agondray wrote:
used too you got all of the bounty for killing someone. This was a great way to line pockets as you can bring a alt in, use a empty clone and boom instant uber paycheck, they changed it now so its not worth killing yourself to get bounty.

Also to allow you to attack someone without concord intervention is a no. Because since the bounty system was changed, before you needed to be between -1 I believe was the highest all the way to -10. Now even at 5.0 sec status I have bounties put on me.

If im allowed to use the new system with out any changes, I could find a target like the freighter bots that ap 24/7, put down 60m and follow it for the path and as soon as it goes active, BOOM not only do I get my isk back, I get a huge km, and I get the piñata.

Also this will give groups like CODE. that have a massive wallet the ability to just hit everything that moves with bounties and wait.


We have to look at what a bounty system is, In real life its a mechanism for Bounty Hunters to go after criminals that have done something wrong and bring them to justice, normally running from the courts, in EvE's case it could be killing a player.

Since the purpose of a Bounty System should be to punish the criminal and not be a weapon or tool used to abuse good law abiding players then I have added Rule 9.

Players will only be able to apply a bounty to some one that attacks them, or has a security standing lower than .5, since Miners and Haulers will probably have very high Security Standings this will protect them from abusive actions from people like Code or Pirate, the current bounty system is easily abused and used to haras people, but that's not what the system is really meant to be like, at least not if real life is any kind of measure.
Conogan Blitzkreig
Induced Warfare
#19 - 2016-12-01 12:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Conogan Blitzkreig
But bounties I think are also meant as a system to be able to be used by players to be able to harass one's enemies. For that reason, I think you should add the option to be able to place bounties on players in a 100-man-sized Corp or more/1000-man-sizrd-alliance or greater that has very negative(Red) standings to your own large Corp/alliance.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#20 - 2016-12-01 14:11:34 UTC
Nope. The server does not understand all the ways a player can be slighted. Bumping? Name calling? Theft? I should be able to place bounties on anyone for any reason because i know better than the server. Add onto this that bounties can be placed on good people by bad people.

The romantic idea you have for bounty hunting cannot happen. Ever:

1- we are immortal and cannot be imprisoned.
2- we can collect our own bounties through alts. They will never pay out well.

What we have now is as good as it gets unless you make perma-death a thing.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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